Deep Space Nine: a thread for (re)watching this awesome series

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We've had a couple of DS9 threads before, but they were mostly about specific characters, so I think the the series deserves one of its own. And since it's been recently added to Netflix outside the US too, I think it'd be nice to discuss it with people who are watching it for the first time, or rewatching it like I'm doing at the moment.

And since this thread should be friendly to new viewers, let's try avoid spoilers if possible, and mark any posts with spoiler with an appropriate warning. I think it's okay to mention names like the Dominion or Pah-Wraiths, but please don't discuss any twists and revelations about them without a spoiler warning.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 11:19 (two years ago) link

I'm in the middle of rewatching the first season, and since I remembered it being as poor in quality as the first TNG season, I've been a bit surprised that there are actually several episodes that are quite good or even classic (besides "Duet", who's classicness is widely accepted). "Past Prologue", the second episode (third episode in Netflix, since they use the production order rather than the airing order) is already very good and touches several of the themes that will become unique to DS9.

OTOH, you also have eps like "Babel", which are okay but feel more like rewritten TNG scripts... Maybe that's why the first season feels so spotty, because it has more TNG-style, continuity-free episodes than the later seasons, where the big plot arcs start to roll.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 11:27 (two years ago) link

The "weird space phenomenon of the week" type of plots work in TNG, but I don't think DS9 finds its own flavour until it de-emphasizes those in favour of galactic politics and intrigue.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 11:33 (two years ago) link

I do not accept the classicness of "Duet"!

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 15:18 (two years ago) link

Like, maybe I'm showing my ignorance of WWII history, but I can't imagine that

*SPOILERS*

an accomplice to genocide would be so wracked by guilt that he'd go to such radical lengths to force a war-crimes reckoning -- seemed like precisely the moral corrective that victims of genocide / retrospective capital-H History would fantasize about.

*END SPOILERS*

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 15:25 (two years ago) link

If that episode was in a realistic WWII series, I would tend to agree, but this is Star Trek! It's an allegory, a moral fable, and I think it works very well as such.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 17:02 (two years ago) link

I mean, one of the main themes of the entire franchise is that our better nature can in the end overcome all the horrible things we've done. I wouldn't want a ST that's cynical in that regard, that's for some other sci-fi series to do.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 17:06 (two years ago) link

I love watch Jake grow up over the first few seasons. He's so young at the start! Brooks has discussed it before, but he had a real bond with Cirroc Lofton and it really shows as their relationship develops.

Jeff, Monday, 14 November 2016 17:08 (two years ago) link

I wouldn't want a ST that's cynical in that regard, that's for some other sci-fi series to do.

That's what DS9 turns into in the 6th and 7th seasons though, no?

Pean-Juc Leeecard (Leee), Monday, 14 November 2016 17:39 (two years ago) link

Maybe for some stretches, but in the end not really, because...
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(WARNING! SPOILERS FOR DS9'S FINALE WILL FOLLOW!)
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...the whole series ends with the rather optimistic and Star Trekkian idea that the Dominion can be reasoned with, that they can learn to understand solids and eventually change their oppressive ways.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 21:29 (two years ago) link

I just rewatched the 1st season episode "Battle Lines", and I hadn't realised before that Jonathan Banks (aka Mike from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul) has a major role in it! He plays the leader of the Ennis, one of the two warring factions the protagonists come across. And he conveys a similar cynical and bitter amusement as he does with Mike, I guess that's really his forte. Perfect casting!

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 21:34 (two years ago) link

Watching the pilot. Sisko explaining the dictionary to dimwitted transcendental beings is hard going.

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Monday, 14 November 2016 22:23 (two years ago) link

Yeah, I always found that bit tedious too, and it didn't feel very credible either: if the wormhole aliens don't understand certain concepts because of their non-linear existence, how is explaining them with different words gonna help?

That said, the payoff to that scene ("then why do you exist here?) is still pretty great and moving.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 November 2016 22:33 (two years ago) link

idk because language is multivalent and certain words/phrases might get routed differently through the universal translator

mh 😏, Monday, 14 November 2016 22:41 (two years ago) link

Goddamn it I still have to finish my TNG rewatch don't start this thread now :)

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 14 November 2016 23:04 (two years ago) link

idk because language is multivalent and certain words/phrases might get routed differently through the universal translator

To me that scene felt like the wormhole aliens were communicating to Sisko directly via telepathy, so the universal translator wasn't involved. Presumably the aliens' language is so different from humanoid ones that the UT can't even process it.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 12:46 (two years ago) link

oh yeah, I forgot all their interactions take place in mental dream time

mh 😏, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:54 (two years ago) link

Yeah. Also, for some inexplicable reason the aliens only want to talk to Sisko, while they immediately send Dax away from the wormhole. I guess they're afraid of cooties?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 16 November 2016 07:23 (two years ago) link

Just a couple of episodes in but to my surprise I am enjoying not hating the low budget soap opera feel.

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 09:04 (two years ago) link

I think DS9 actually had a reasonably large budget for its era, with the virtue of being a Star Trek show. Certainly most the effects still look pretty good, especially when you compare them to a lower-budget show like Babylon 5, whose CGI would nowadays look crappy even in a budget video game.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 16 November 2016 10:47 (two years ago) link

The big exception I guess is Odo's morphing, which does look silly, but I think those effects were state-of-the-art back then. And you can see budget cuts the show took later on from the fact that in later seasons Odo often doesn't morph even when it would make sense him to do so, or he morphs offscreen.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 16 November 2016 10:49 (two years ago) link

Ok low stakes rather than low budget - Keiko becoming a schoolteacher is hardly JR getting shot. I know, there's plenty of high stakes galactic political intrigue to come.

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 13:25 (two years ago) link

Ok, I get what you mean, and I myself like these low stakes stories too. DS9 has a great ensemble cast, and I like how they, unlike TNG, often build the drama on personal interaction and avoid the Weird Space Threat of the Week altogether. Plus the lower stakes make sense considering the stable setting. With the Enterprise, they can sorta justify meeting things that endanger the ship or some random planet every week, because they're constantly on the move, but it'd feel ridiculous if Bajor was constantly under some new, previously unheard of cosmic threat.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 16 November 2016 13:43 (two years ago) link

The low-stakes stories don't happen till much later in the series IMO, because nearly every episode in the first couple season strike me as having an existential threat shoe-horned into it (see that one where Dax is hazing a Trill would-be initiate and accidentally breaks space-time).

Meighton Leeester (Leee), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 18:54 (two years ago) link

I just rewatched "Progress", which is an excellent example of a first season episode with low stakes. (Okay, if Mullibok stays on the moon he will die, but it's obvious they'll beam him up against his will before letting that happen, so the whole point of the episode is really just the moral dilemma his stubborness causes Kira to face.) But you're right that they do become more prominent in later seasons, when the writers are more comfortable in not following the narrative traditions of earlier ST series.

Tuomas, Thursday, 17 November 2016 08:14 (two years ago) link

Trying to do this properly and not skip any but I'm in the middle of the first season slump and things are only going to get worse:

Deep Space Nine is put in jeopardy when the crew's thoughts manifest themselves, and such figures as Rumpelstiltskin appear.

The Federation ambassador from Betazed, Lwaxana Troi, visits the station, and develops an affection for Odo.

Can't I skip them? Pleeease?

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Monday, 21 November 2016 20:26 (two years ago) link

It's all part of a rich tapestry, ledge

You cld comfortably skip ahead to the first episode w/ the Jem'Hadar, tbh

Darcy Sarto (Ward Fowler), Monday, 21 November 2016 20:38 (two years ago) link

you can skip the rest of the first season except for Progress and Duet imo

i wouldn't skip much in season 2, there's some fun throwaway episodes there

ciderpress, Monday, 21 November 2016 20:46 (two years ago) link

Those are both good episodes! You do have to have a taste for camp, though.

Meighton Leeester (Leee), Monday, 21 November 2016 21:16 (two years ago) link

The Rumpelstiltskin episode is skippable (it's pretty much a TNG style "weird space phenomenon of the week" story with no larger importance), but I wouldn't skip the Lwaxana episode. It ends up subverting our expectations of the character, and Majel Barrett is wonderful while doing that. Plus it has some important character revelations about Odo. The Lwaxana eps in DS9 (there's a couple of more to follow) in general are better than her TNG episodes, because they treat her less like a joke.

And you definitely shouldn't skip to the first Jem'Hadar episode! In the second season the quality of writing gets better, and the opening three-parter has some very important plot development w/r/t Bajoran politics that will resonate right until the end of the series.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 08:17 (two years ago) link

I wouldn't skip the Lwaxana episode

damnit.

Progress was ok, critical character development for Kira, that guy was a dick though.

The Storyteller prob the worst I've seen so far. Fatuous group psychology + ludicrous deus ex machina.

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:12 (two years ago) link

Yeah, The Storyteller's A plot is probably the worst in the entire series, except for "Profit and Lace".

Tuomas, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 15:25 (two years ago) link

WARNING! SPOILERS ABOUT "PROGRESS"!
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I love how "Progress" subverts the viewer's expectation of what sort of a story it's gonna be, i.e. your typical "the underdog is always right" tale where were supposed to root for this one stubborn guy and forgot about the utilitarian alternative, and instead it turns into a lesson for Kira that sometimes siding with The Man is the right thing to do.
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Tuomas, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 15:35 (two years ago) link

I love how Quark's life is saved when he bends over to pick up a nickel.

schwantz, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 04:20 (two years ago) link

I do not accept the classicness of "Duet"!

I second that emotion!

quis gropes ipsos gropiuses? (ledge), Monday, 28 November 2016 08:59 (two years ago) link

Can you elaborate?

Tuomas, Monday, 28 November 2016 10:15 (two years ago) link

i like Duet but agree that it is pretty contrived

ciderpress, Monday, 28 November 2016 12:17 (two years ago) link

I like Duet, too. It may be contrived, but it's far and away one of the strongest episodes of the first couple seasons.

I actually had to think about which episode it was, since I always confuse it with Waltz. (Mentally filed under "heavy episodes where two characters square off moralizing against each other.")

Millsner, Monday, 28 November 2016 12:52 (two years ago) link

Contrived and hammy. I liked the camp survivors standing round all dressed in rags to elicit maximum sympathy.

the year of diving languorously (ledge), Monday, 28 November 2016 12:59 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Kira and Dax notwithstanding this show is being hella sexist right now. Sisko and O'Brien land on a planet and find some earth people marooned there for ten years. One guy says 'I used to be an engineer!', another guy says 'who won the soccer?', a woman steps forward and says 'what are the latest fashions?' smdh. And don't get me started on the Ferengi, a bit of light comic relief from a species who oppress their women in the most contemptible fashion.

That episode with the marooned dude was pretty good though, until the final insulting two minutes.

the year of diving languorously (ledge), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 13:34 (two years ago) link

*dudes

the year of diving languorously (ledge), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 13:34 (two years ago) link

trek gotta trek

i enjoyed the 3-parter opening season 2. that evil religious lady is a good villain!

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 14:47 (two years ago) link

I think the Lwaxana episodes are good curatives to the usual Trek sexism, IIRC.

Bianca Smell BO (Leee), Thursday, 15 December 2016 01:11 (two years ago) link

on the recommendation of the ILE tastemaking consensus and because I am into day five of being sick as a goddamn dog, I've now set my sights on climbing this mountain of a show. Damn but it is a lot of episodes. I'm about 8 deep into S1 and it strikes me as mostly ok trek, if a little boring. I barely remember watching it during it's orginal run, and couldn't have stuck with it for more than part of S1 and a few into S2 or 3. I find it the kind of show I can watch with my eyes closed. As long as I have the dialogue I can fill in the rest. So far I'm liking Quark mostly because he gets picked on way too much. Kira yells 100% of her dialogue and Dax is to date perhaps the most boring trek character ever created. I'm sure I'll see things change. Anyway, I'm in.

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 16 December 2016 01:34 (two years ago) link

Lwaxana episodes are getting better and better, carrying over from TNG (outside that ghastly drowning kid one). it quite enjoyed seeing her paired with Odo, it's kind of a perfect match, and their little adventure together was very endearing and sweet.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 16 December 2016 14:49 (two years ago) link

i recall one bad lwaxana episode that was one of the worst of the series but the other couple she's in are fine

ciderpress, Friday, 16 December 2016 14:51 (two years ago) link

11/28/1994. Fascination — A mysterious virus causes the DS9 characters to begin falling in love with each other on sight.

this was the bad one iirc

ciderpress, Friday, 16 December 2016 14:53 (two years ago) link

good god that's going to be a terrible episode on any version of Trek, save the TOS, where it would be hilarious

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 16 December 2016 15:43 (two years ago) link

Kinda surprised if it wasn't used in TOS already, TNG had "The Naked Now" right?

Nhex, Friday, 16 December 2016 18:09 (two years ago) link

I've just seen 'the captain (commander) falls in love with a ghost', that was pretty bad

the year of diving languorously (ledge), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:00 (two years ago) link

the mirror universe ones are Good (even if the ease of getting back and forth is extra silly)

mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 15:56 (one week ago) link

that quote from Behr about Picard's greatest fear in the Medium piece DJI linked is great
and of course Roddenberry killed it and liked the whole Risa pleasure planet junk

untuned mass damper (mh), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:08 (one week ago) link

I don't think there's a ton of agreement on what the outright bad episodes are - I love the Mirror Universe eps for instance - plus a lot of the politics are drawn super slowly in the first two seasons. Just suck it up and digest it all, buddy!

Nhex, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:21 (one week ago) link

xp too lazy to find it, can you quote it mh

Nhex, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:23 (one week ago) link

Can do, sorry for the length

I created this planet called Risa, which was a pleasure planet. The captain was stressed out and needed a vacation. He went on this vacation and there was a holosuite there — or a holodeck — I guess a holosuite, we called it.

It said, “Face Your Greatest Fear!” and it was like a carnival place. And he thought, “Oh, cool, this is going to put me in a good mood. What I need is to fight some Klingons without thinking about the repercussions of it, or go after some Romulans or whatever it is.

And he goes into this holodeck, and it was all about the captain being promoted to admiral, and losing the Enterprise, and Riker being bumped up to captain of the Enterprise. Basically, though we never really hit it on the head, it’s about growing old. Not to grow old, but your time of life changing and suddenly you’re not going to be the guy going off on adventures, you’re going to be sitting at a desk somewhere, SENDING people on adventures. That’s his greatest fear.

Then it became a whole long story that I’m not going to get into now, but it got SLAMMED dead by Gene (Roddenberry); it was my big ‘Gene meeting’, where he slammed me down with all kind of pronouncements about what Star Trek is and is not. It was like, “Picard fears nothing. If it’s time for him to grow old, to become an admiral, he becomes an admiral! He would not think about that, AT ALL. Picard is John Wayne!” Well, John Wayne had all kinds of fears and guilt and angers and bitterness in his best movies… “No. John Wayne is a hero, Picard is a hero, we are not doing this episode.” Even though I guess this had happened a lot on the show in the first couple seasons, it hadn’t hit us.

And that’s when Gene sat there, “…but I love the pleasure planet! Get the captain laid!”

https://medium.com/maxistentialism-blog/star-trek-deep-space-nine-in-82-5-hours-10acde591fd2#.nfj6q7sqb

untuned mass damper (mh), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:34 (one week ago) link

Done a LOL @ that.

Thank You (Fattekin Mice Elf Control Again) (Noel Emits), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:38 (one week ago) link

hahaha omg

Nhex, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:50 (one week ago) link

We all know that Picard's unyielding lack of complexity is at the core of his enduring popularity.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:54 (one week ago) link

I'm surprised Roddenberry didn't insist he have a heroic catchphrase. 'Jean-Luc out, here comes Picard!'

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 16:56 (one week ago) link

Um. Engage?

DJI, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:00 (one week ago) link

Not heroic enough imo. Maybe like 'engage that shit' while he slides on some shades to the accompaniment of chugging guitars.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:15 (one week ago) link

I think i've mentioned the time i was on the men's room line at the theatre w/ Patrick Stewart, but didn't end up at the next urinal, where i wd've intoned "Make it so, Number One."

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:17 (one week ago) link

tbh I can't imagine that you would like DS9 at all Morbz

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:19 (one week ago) link

Yeah, if you're primarily a fan of TOS, it bears little resemblance. Very good but quite different.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:21 (one week ago) link

does anyone want to explain to me what is going on with the Tribbles ep img with O'Brien inserted into it upthread

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:33 (one week ago) link

i don't require it to be a clone of the first series

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:33 (one week ago) link

fwiw I couldn't make it past the first episode, and you know how low my standards are

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:46 (one week ago) link

The first episode of a television series is usually its best, so that's a pretty fair assessment.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:50 (one week ago) link

idk if you really want to have this argument but I was not given the impression that the things that were the most objectionable about it (like, say, the lead's line readings) were remedied later on

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:51 (one week ago) link

Does the Medium piece talk about how Roddenberry also wanted half-naked guys in the background holding hands?

I actually like "Move Along Home"! I think that someone who gets with TOS would appreciate its silly camp.

Coelacanth Green (Leee), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:53 (one week ago) link

like, there was just nothing there that grabbed me, nothing that seemed like an interesting idea/no character that might develop into something interesting, and plenty of things I found actively irritating (Sisko, Ferengi etc.)

xps

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 17:55 (one week ago) link

You'll be missing out on Wallace Shawn and Space Nurse Ratched
https://s.put.re/maPB9nTX.png
https://s.put.re/PmdfguRf.png

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:04 (one week ago) link

Like while on the one hand I can accept that your objections were enough to keep you from pursuing the series further, on the other hand recommending against watching a well-regarded television series on the basis of the one (1) episode you couldn't even make it all the way through is...what's the word? Oh, yes: challops.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:38 (one week ago) link

As Philip notes, if you haven't even gotten around to seeing Vedek Winn and Garak and the evolution of Nog etc. etc. you might as well be saying 'don't watch this show why because I saw a commercial and it looked unintersting'.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:40 (one week ago) link

well-regarded television series

eh depends who you ask

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:42 (one week ago) link

not sure what you think Morbz would like about this series tbh

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:42 (one week ago) link

Did you read the post right after you wrote to Morbs where I agreed with you (not realizing you hadn't actually seen the show)

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:44 (one week ago) link

fair enough

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:48 (one week ago) link

anyway i'm a fan of Rene Auberjonois and Colm Meaney in other things

also there is a baseball episode

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:53 (one week ago) link

love me some Alex Siddig, that guy has been a valuable supporting actor in a lot of things over the years. he was the best thing about the worst part of Game of Thrones too (Dorne), which was an utter waste of his skill level and charisma.

omar little, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 19:58 (one week ago) link

I agree with Οὖτις that Avery Brooks can be a bit off-putting with his weird line-reading, but if you can get past that the rest of the series is really great. One of the first golden-age-of-TV-style shows where there is a large over-arching plot, and the first Star Trek show to have any hints of darkness or doubt within the Federation.

DJI, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:06 (one week ago) link

eh depends who you ask

I admit that I'm pretty deep into the Trek echo chamber but basically everyone praises DS9, especially for its structural ambitions.

Coelacanth Green (Leee), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:12 (one week ago) link

also there is a baseball episode

i think this was the only one i skipped.

The Pingularity (ledge), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:26 (one week ago) link

probably still prefer the later tng seasons

mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:30 (one week ago) link

There's also an episode that revolves around the 1951 Willie Mays rookie card.

Coelacanth Green (Leee), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 20:32 (one week ago) link

The baseball episode is actually really good, in a corny, sentimental way, even for someone likes me who knows almost nothing about it. It helps that it's right in the middle of long war arc, and it's clear that both the viewers and the characters need the temporary distraction it brings to all dark stuff they've been going through.

And yeah, baseball features in other episodes too, because right from the start Captain Sisko is established as a major fan of the sport (which apparently isn't played much on Earth anymore in the 24th century).

Tuomas, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:08 (one week ago) link

Baseball only exists as a Fortnite DLC in the 24th century.

DJI, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:33 (one week ago) link

Avery Brooks is just very theatre.

He's a joy and my favourite captain.

bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:42 (one week ago) link

It wouldn't be Star Trek if the principals didn't ignore the last several centuries of their history in forming cultural interests that are uniformly familiar to viewers in the 20th/21st Century.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:43 (one week ago) link

FTR, I get shakey's qualms inasmuch as the pilot is overlong and unwieldy and not a great entry point for people who aren't predisposed to jump headlong into a new Trek venture sight unseen. And if you don't stick around to the end, you miss the emotional payoff and best part of the episode. And, yeah, Brooks is sometimes a little much.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:48 (one week ago) link

iirc the the TNG pilot was much worse

mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:53 (one week ago) link

contains nothing as bafflingly inscrutable as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1gdiuqAQs

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:54 (one week ago) link

TNG pilot has Q in it, which at least makes for an entertaining/watchable villain. Other stuff is stiff/stupid but that central conflict between Picard and Q in the pilot establishes a lot successfully imo.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:56 (one week ago) link

xp
He's talking to an incorporeal wormhole alien!

DJI, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 21:57 (one week ago) link

Also, the Bajoran mystical stuff is some of the least interesting material in the show imo so frontloading it like that probably wasn't the best idea.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:09 (one week ago) link

shakes, go watch 'Duet' and tell me this show still stinks.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:11 (one week ago) link

Ignore Shakey, Morbs, he's muddying the waters.

The only thing you need to know from the first episode is that:

- Sisko's wife was killed by the Borg (which happened in TNG), and he's raising his son on his own.
- He's been sent to command a backwater space station (titular DS9), which makes him wonder if he should remain in Starfleet (his career is going nowhere).
- Bajorans are another kind of Space Jew, and the Cardassians are Space Nazis. In fact, the station used to belong to the Cardassians, but the Federation is taking it over in the hopes of negotiating Bajor's entry into the Federation.
- By the end of the episode, a wormhole suddenly opens up next to the station -- and living inside are noncorporeal aliens that Bajorans worship -- and Sisko is credited with its appearance. From now on, he's viewed as Bajor's Emissary (basically a prophet for renewing contact with Bajor's gods), and he likewise finds renewed purpose as a Starfleet officer.

That's from memory so I may have gotten some details wrong.

Also, be aware that the early seasons look butt-ugly (they haven't been remastered for HD and UHD screens).

Coelacanth Green (Leee), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:14 (one week ago) link

The visual aesthetic of this show always struck me, I.e. still polished but it seemed to be an attempt at downplaying the visual interstellar glory prevalent in the previous series (which of course were journeying everywhere) but beyond that making it appear more working class and underfunded. This is just my memory from watching 25 years ago of course.

omar little, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 22:19 (one week ago) link

The station was pointedly a run-down wreck early in the show. It kinda develops like Deadwood, a character unto itself.

Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 August 2019 23:09 (one week ago) link

god I fuckin hate Q

Simon H., Tuesday, 13 August 2019 23:19 (one week ago) link


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