Thread of What Is Fascism And Is Donald Trump A Fascist

Yeah, they think Trump is a sinner who God has chosen To carry out a holy purpose for mysterious reasons iirc. So that’s how they square up the cruelty, viciousness, venality and arrogance of Donald Trump with Christian morality. A nice sleight of hand.

Or, as has been posited, evangelicals are themselves cruel and vicious and venal and arrogant and so Trump is just naturally their dude.

I mean, sure, but also they do say this about him. That is how they navigate the contradiction.

Yeah, they think Trump is a sinner who God has chosen To carry out a holy purpose for mysterious reasons iirc. So that’s how they square up the cruelty, viciousness, venality and arrogance of Donald Trump with Christian morality

also, Old Lunch v much otm. I’d say a scary number of them actually get off on the cruelty.

Right. The God stuff isn’t necessarily a “good faith” explanation of why they like him.

well have you READ the old testament?

there are just a handful of divinely sanctioned genocides based on whether or not you belong to the correct civilization, nbd

old donny junior trussed on the mount at moriah while papa checks twitter to see if he offs him

Erik Loomis has been good on this front this week (and also since 2016, basically)

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/02/the-governments-official-promotion-of-fascist-histories

What the BLM tweeting does is assure right-wing westerners associated with mining, logging, grazing, and oil and gas that the government is openly on their side, not the tribes, not the environmentalists, not the hikers or rafters, not the residents of Denver or Portland or Seattle who use these lands.

This is culture war, pure and simple. And a history of genocide and exploitation is being used as a weapon by the fascist side of that war.

lol for many years, when I saw the acronym BLM, it meant, "Bureau of Land Management" -- for the past few years, BLM = Black Lives Matter. This quoted section was momentarily confusing because of that.

I have to say that I increasingly think no, he is not a fascist. He is too incompetent to be a fascist. He is too chaotic to be a fascist. He is too petty and self-interested even to be a fascist. A fascist administration would take decisive action to slow the pandemic and then use the situation to consolidate power. He just kind of fumbles around and looks for opportunities for grift.

I get that there are touches of fascist demagoguery in there, like attempts to chasten the media, racism, etc. But there's not much sense of a larger program, just a kind of instinctual political survival game.

Yeah, kinda. I think this crisis has shown that there is a difference between people like Trump and Bolsonaro, and people like Orban and Duterte.

A fascist would probably bother to appoint people to key positions and then make them do things.

He is too incompetent to be a fascist. He is too chaotic to be a fascist.

why are these things mutually exclusive? is fascism by definition administratively capable?

Ineffectual fascism may still be fascist but not have the same bite to it. ICE is a fascist police force perpetrating genocide but it was under Obama too.

"fascist administration would take decisive action to slow the pandemic and then use the situation to consolidate power."

This is really questionable.

fascist administration or prospective ones rarely waste states of exception and quickly get to work dissolving democratic institutions to consolidate their power. i think man alive is rightl. for all his flaws he's not a fascist.

feels a little no true scotsman but ok point taken

I guess he could just be a really shitty fascist. But he doesn't seem to have much of a program or organization. He has a bunch of ideas and he's influenced by some people (Miller e.g.) who seem closer to fascism. He probably borrows some ideas and style from fascists, and he even admires fascists. But Trump is ultimately just about Trump and too dumb and short-attention-spanned to really implement anything like a fascist program. And he wasn't put forth by a fascist party either, he more just kind of snuck in through the back door of the GOP.

He probably frequently borrows some ideas and style from fascists, and he even admires fascists. But Trump is ultimately just about Trump...

fixed

Yeah, Bannon seems fascisty, Miller as well. But Trump is more just a racist and a narcissist and a misogynist and etc etc etc

Bannon looks like the kind of guy who'd be dead within an hour of contracting Covid.

Also he slightly resembles the Covid bug.

xp I think Bannon wanted to make Trump into a fascist but Trump is sort of untameable

Yeah, fascism is about order through strength (or vice versa), and Trump is neither strong nor orderly.

I agree, man alive

The leader of the fascist party is a fascist by definition. If he’s empowering and enabling fascist politicians and groups, he’s a fascist. Saying Trump isn’t a fascist is like saying edgelords who shout the N-word aren’t racist because they were “just joking”—what matters is the outcome, not whatever muddled and stupid intent goes on inside his head.

the best policing of calling things fascist is stephen kotkin saying franco wasn't a fascist

yeah he's a fascist in the same way Joe Flacco is a Super Bowl MVP

it's funny but i remember the ilx debate over whether the band queen was fascist being much longer and more intense than the debate over whether donald trump is fascist

arguing over whether something fits some fixed definition of fascism is a bullshit waste of time but i'm suspicious of ppl who are *adamant* that trump or whoever right wing scumbag isn't at all fascist

the internet is grand

it doesn't matter what fascist means what matters is that i get to call ppl it

SLAB

otm

Really not very good at being a fascist

This slo-mo sunday-night-massacre, and the inability of anyone to stop him, is freaking me out.

basically I’m thinking euro american culture is inherently protofascist & drawing the line is a fools errand

If you're gonna pursue that line, it's not just Euro-American culture tbh.

where did I say just

but who are we talking about here, where did most of the biggest colonisers come from

Yeah, that's fair.

basically the standard line in this culture is that fascism is bad and colonialism was/is generally good, no wonder we can’t understand/prevent the former

Ime 'colonialism was awful for the most part but the Brits were benevolent barring an exception or two' is a fairly mainstream school of historical 'analysis' in English-speaking Canada.

everyone thinks the empire they identify with was uniquely benevolent and/or unfairly picked on, we even can’t get past this, fuck nationalism

https://www.salon.com/2020/05/18/soldiers-of-the-boogaloo-david-neiwert-on-the-far-rights-plans-for-a-new-civil-war/

On the politics of this comparison:

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/05/19/the-trouble-with-comparisons/

Now that we've thoroughly covered Trump, it is time to ask the next burning question: Is US Attorney General William Barr a Fascist?

the more important question: is he the biggest attorney general fascist of all time? because if he isn't, then discussing how bad barr sucks is distracting from the important issue of how bad the past bad AGs were