Thread of What Is Fascism And Is Donald Trump A Fascist

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here you go guys

tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 10:47 (four years ago) link

good question!

literally fasciscm was a political movement/totalitarian ideology but I guess most people use the word metaphorically now, not unlike how nazism is used (though I guess a few people identify as nazis but hardly any consider thmselves fascists)

niels, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 11:00 (four years ago) link

Donald Trump is not a Fascist, a truth so obvious as to be worth the clusterfuck that's about to ensue

Coombesbat 18 (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 11:42 (four years ago) link

he is far-right
he has a hate campaign against members of a religious group that he sees as enemies of america
he is pro-war

but
besides being a birther he seems to be ok with democracy

i'm not an expert on this stuff but i think fascism was thought of as a reaction against both democracy and communism, which just seems idiotic now. so no, trump is not a fascist. yet.

aaaaablnnn (abanana), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 12:52 (four years ago) link

he seems to be ok with democracy

imo Trump does not actually have a coherent ideology (whereas most memorable fascists adhered very closely to the ideology in which they explicitly believed, the ideology of fascism), but I'd be comfortable classifying him as a berzerker fascist because he says shit that's right in line with fascist governance -- national registry of Muslims, closing mosques, his obsession with national strength & power -- not security and robust health, but "beat the other guy" strength. so, in the imaginary world where he gets elected, he might well govern like a fascist, and he's certainly said plenty of fascist things.

but he probably couldn't, himself, provide any definition whatsoever of fascism. a fascist, however wrongheadedly, believes he is doing good for his nation. Trump's pathology is messier.

OTOH it's really fine to call him a fascist because calling assholes fascists is a time-honored tradition and we're not all fedora-sporting EXCUSE ME THAT'S NOT WHAT THE WORD MEANS bores

tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 14:03 (four years ago) link

boomin' post

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 14:04 (four years ago) link

was Mussolini an asshole though?

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 14:05 (four years ago) link

Guessing this has already been linked elsewhere: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/12/10/9886152/donald-trump-fascism

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 14:17 (four years ago) link

Donald Trump has been endorsed by Stormfront's Don Black and by David Duke.

I'd be more concerned with Trump's supporters, who seem comfortable with fascist ideas and who would benefit from fascist policies.

Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 14:52 (four years ago) link

Not that I think we are in danger of a fascist government, but the "Patriot" movement is fascist.

Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:04 (four years ago) link

i like the distinction made in that vox article. for example there are numerous problematic governments + parties that don't deserve the fascist label like apartheid south africa which was a repressive, draconian, racist regime, but not really a fascist one. ppl calling their political opponents (on either side of the aisle) fascists has a long history but it kinda flattens the meaning of things. is trump a risk for inflaming racist violence? yes. would POTUS trump be a risk for shutting down the other 2 branches of govt and concentrating all State power into his hands? i don't think so, and there's no indication that's his plan. by contrast, hitler in 1923 was already trying to coup the government (which is to say that despite his later participation in the democratic german process his intentions to disassemble said democracy was present from the very beginning. even Stormfront racists are not necessarily fascist - bc if the word is to mean anything besides "political/ideological pov with whom i disagree" it needs to mean a particular political program. said program might include horrific racism, but that's not the trademark. also it's not like the left has a monopoly on misusing the term cf jonah goldberg's "liberal fascism" book.

thank u for starting this thread, mr. loves chachi.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:04 (four years ago) link

also in a more general sense i'm v wary of flattening / histrionic language. it seems like inflammatory accusations (in various political arenas) are designed to inflame the passions of yr ideological cohorts more than make a sensible argument. but surely if trump deserves to be shunned + marginalized it's not bc he maybe fits some of the definitions of the word 'fascism,' but bc he has done and said actually terrible things. why add the extra step? a. trump said disgusting racist thing. b. we should shun him for that. why do we need to squeeze "therefore he's a fascist," in between? iirc slatestarcodex has written about how categorical language is used to collapse distinctions in the listeners' mind. really the use of fascism as a term of condemnation is a syllogism - x is a fascist; fascism is wrong (why? bc fascist european govts did disgusting things); therefore X is wrong. but if X is wrong on its own merits then it's unnecessary to compare X to Hitler or whomever is the stand-in in this argument for "we all agree he is evil and therefore anyone like him is also evil."

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:10 (four years ago) link

not a fascist. a poster child for why we need steep inheritance, income, and capital gains taxes. smug incurious privileged bullies like DT have way too much sway in our neo-feudal system

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:15 (four years ago) link

if anything the kind of robber baron demagoguery that Trump specializes is more unappealing than Fascism but i like the distinction because broadly speaking Fascists are team players (assuming you're on their team) where is Trump is a piggy-eyed leech who doesn't give a fuck about anything beyond his own gratification. even his Team America shtick is half a front and half his own wet dreams

Coombesbat 18 (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:29 (four years ago) link

also he's absolutely a product of American capitalism not a reaction against it

Coombesbat 18 (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:30 (four years ago) link

i'd be fine if a bunch of major media outlets wanted to run with the idea that trump is a fascist. who cares, nothing is sacred in that arena anyway. i got over the fact that obama was a 'socialist.' by the time the 'real fascists' arrive it's probably not going to matter much what we call them anyway

rap is dad (it's a boy!), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:37 (four years ago) link

something that came up on the other thread is whether his desire to ban muslims (non-citizens?) from entering the US, and deporting 10 million undocumented immigrants, is an example of the obsession fascism has with cleansing but i'm not even sure if that's true. sure you could describe it as a cleansing but i don't think that trump thinks that mexicans or muslims are an inherent evil (and certainly not in the way Hitler felt about Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, etc). like this distinction is very subtle but he wants to keep muslims out of the country bc of worldwide islamic radicalism and he wants to deport 10 million undocumented immigrants bc they broke the law being in this country. both of those decisions are toxic and their implementation would lead to horrific violations of human rights. but both of those motivations are within the realm of rationality - there is radical islam in the world and there are a number of undocumented immigrants in this country. his solution to those problems is terrible but they are real problems. by contrast when we talk about fascist cleansing i think we mean an attempt to cleanse the population of the Other entirely - which is a motivation buried in a kind of irrational mythological understanding of the nation as a particular volk. in fact on a number of occasions i've seen trump say things like i love mexicans some of my favorite people are mexicans, whereas it wouldn't make sense for hitler to have been like no i like the jews i just think we need to figure out what to do w/ them until we have a solution to jewish terrorism. they were inherently a blemish on the unified nation by din of their coincidence of birth (which is why the racial laws were necessary), not bc of any kind of rational political motivation.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:40 (four years ago) link

if anything the kind of robber baron demagoguery that Trump specializes is more unappealing than Fascism but i like the distinction because broadly speaking Fascists are team players (assuming you're on their team) where is Trump is a piggy-eyed leech who doesn't give a fuck about anything beyond his own gratification.

There was an interesting piece by Ollie Carroll, i think, this week suggesting that there are only two genuinely political parties in Ukraine at the moment - Fascist and Communist. Everyone else, including the whole of the mainstream, is a front for robber barons. Trump is not a fascist or 'genuinely political' in any meaningful sense but arguably one of the main dangers he poses is that blurring the lines of what passes for acceptable political discourse without actually proposing anything to address the economic and social grievances his supporters have is going to make irl fascism more attractive in the long run.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:45 (four years ago) link

I think Trump's impulses re: Muslims and "Mexicans" are very much in line with fascist and other far right totalitarian regimes. Worth keeping in mind that Nazism didn't explicitly advocate ethnic cleansing as part of their platform (which is not to say that Hitler didn't believe that they should all be murdered as early as 1920) but were much initially focused on expulsion of non-Germans.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:51 (four years ago) link

I gotta say I'm really confused by the "well he's not trying to dismantle democracy" line. I mean, if *you* decided to enact my tinfoil hat scenario from the primary thread, would you actually mention any antidemocratic intentions at this point?

Idk, maybe the term isn't fascist, but I feel like some form of widespread labeling needs to be done in order to differentiate him and whoever picks up his banner in four years as a different animal from the usual "Jesus told me to cut taxes" people, especially in the minds of people who, unlike me, are clever enough not to be wasting hours of their days every day following this bullshit. As scary as those guys can be, their gameplan doesn't trend towards the same kind of existential threat that makes an f-word-style regime so brutal and hard to reverse.

That said, I'm completely open to the idea that I just grew up post-Reagan and thus consider the actually-far-more-dangerous religious right to simply be a part of the scenery but am scared by the new shiny bad thing because it's new and shiny (to my personal experience, I mean, obviously this shit ain't new).

ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:51 (four years ago) link

xp there's nothing in trump's presentation of history that suggests the kind of mythological cleansing of the other that hitler was obsessed w/. it's not like hitler got into power and then decided to get rid of all the jews. he was talking about jewish conspiracies and the stab-in-the-back myth very early on. it's all over mein kampf.

Indeed, in Mein Kampf, written in the early 1920s, Hitler explicitly linked the imagined deceit of the Jews in the First World War with the need for their destruction, saying that the ‘sacrifice of millions at the front’ would have been prevented if ‘twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas.’ii
so this is present very early on. it didn't start as an anti-immigrant movement and then develop into jew hatred. it started as jew hatred from the very beginning.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:56 (four years ago) link

moreover if you take his distinctions seriously he wants to get rid of undocumented immigrants (not American citizens of Mexican extract) and apparently backtracked on not allowing muslim American citizens into the united states. that's def not the totalizing of identity that fascism specializes in. the german people were germans, not jews or gypsies. ditto the italian people. but trump's American people includes Mexicans and Muslims. it's just the non-American Mexicans and Muslims he doesn't want and that isn't a concern exclusive to fascism unless you believe that all anti-immigrant sentiment is inherently fascistic but i see no reason to make that claim.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 15:58 (four years ago) link

Nazism is hardly an ideology at all beyond the struggle of races and the anti-semitism at the heart of that, it's not only not incidental to Hitler's politics but his theoretical politics never went very far beyond it

Nazism isn't Fascism tbf

Coombesbat 18 (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:00 (four years ago) link

Right but Nazism also /= Fascism either, that's why it's a subset of it. I'd say Trump started demonizing immigrants and Muslims pretty much from the get go too. If your argument is "but he didn't doesn't say he want to kill them all so it's not fascism" then I think basically nothing that's Nazism will ever be Fascism to you.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:00 (four years ago) link

I'm not saying that he's not a fascist because he didn't say he wants to kill them all. I'm saying that he is distinguishing within Mexican and Muslim groups which suggests a less than totalizing vision of peoplehood and Otherness.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:04 (four years ago) link

Racial "cleansing" isn't necessarily inherent in fascism. The idea of rebirth is arguably more important. Racial "cleansing" is often the result of that impulse though.

If you wanted to make the case that Trump was a fascist, there's quite a lot of crossover between his movement and the palingenesis that is one of the core building blocks of fascism. There's nothing beyond the surface though.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:05 (four years ago) link

think people shd draw some lines between "policies Trump really gives a shit about", "things Trump will say because he thinks it might get him elected", "things Trump will say because he enjoys playing the asshole character 'Donald Trump'" and "things Trump would actually be allowed to do by all the other power-holders in the US in the hugely unlikely event he became President?" because i think this stuff all makes a difference to how seriously you dissect his opinions/try to label him

altho to quote JCLC calling assholes fascists is a time-honored tradition

Coombesbat 18 (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:06 (four years ago) link

so i'm not sure that "make america great again" is an example of fascistic rebirth. not least because what president has not campaigned on some level under the banner of making american great again? isn't every non-incumbant campaign pretty much a "change" campaign? and he isn't really speaking to a rebirth of a white identity - even tho some supremacists have heard things that resonate for them. has he really talked at all about whiteness and white consciousness (both staples of supremacist movements)?

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:07 (four years ago) link

do we reveal anything new/useful about the world by calling him a fascist, or do we just enjoy having the opportunity to use the word?

everyone itt probably knows both the strict and loose definitions of the word fascist and understands donald trumps' political views and place vis-a-vis the republican party. there are aspects of his appeal that call back to strongman fascist leaders, but not so long ago we had a cowboy president who had a 90% approval rating and who said stuff like 'you're either with us or against us'. even though that guy was less openly racist I'm not sure the situation was less 'fascist'.

trump appeals to the white-identity nationalist reactionaries who form the base of the republican party. this group existed before donald trump and they'll exist after him, he just found himself w/ a bulworth-esque situation where he can say whatever he wants (so exactly what they want to hear rather than mostly what they want to hear) as he's not tied to any political donors or a political career.

iatee, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:10 (four years ago) link

geez I go tot sleep for a few hours

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:18 (four years ago) link

xxp It's not racial identity he's talking about, it's national identity. Pinochet was arguably not much more racist than a lot of other Latin American leaders.

Trump's palingenetic appeal - one great leader will return a faded and corrupt nation to its former glory by sweeping away the old order of both political stripes and giving birth to the new forged in his own image - is outside of the scope of yr standard politician who'll "make x great again" but i don't think he really believes it or would know what to do with the power given the opportunity.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:21 (four years ago) link

"one great leader will return a faded and corrupt nation to its former glory by sweeping away the old order of both political stripes and giving birth to the new forged in his own image" i'm not going to say it's impossible to squint and see this as trump but i think it's a bit of a stretch. he's running as a republican, he says he likes a lot of the other candidates, he has agreed not to run as an independent, he's deeply indebted to the current system, he talks about america "winning again" but not as a rebirth or awakening. i think he's much closer to a candidate claiming to make america great again than a fascistic leader.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:24 (four years ago) link

he has agreed not to run as an independent,

oh come on

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:27 (four years ago) link

you're penchant for giving him the benefit of the doubt is truly baffling

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:27 (four years ago) link

your egh it's early for me

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:27 (four years ago) link

i'm not giving him any benefit of the doubt, i'm just looking at what he has said and how he has presented himself. if we're talking about his true motivations i think there's a slam-dunk case that he's a berlusconi-style buffoon who doesn't believe or give a shit about any of this. if we're going to talk about him as a fascist it needs to be on the level of his political presentation and reception.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:29 (four years ago) link

I'd argue he's not running as a Republican. He's running for the Republican nomination as Donald Trump. Either way, he's not really a fascist though i wouldn't discount the idea that there's a crossover between traditional fascism and some elements of his support base who wouldn't self-identify as such.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:29 (four years ago) link

in the last debate they asked him (and then after the debate he was asked 2-3 more times in interviews) about whether he'd run as an independent and he said (not exact quote) that he has grown to respect the other candidates and he feels a part of the republican party and so no he has decided he won't run as an independent and he just hopes the republican party treats him fairly at the convention. he also kept emphasizing that in some polls he beats hillary bc i think he has moved onto making the case to the party that he is a bet they should take.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:30 (four years ago) link

if we're talking about his true motivations i think there's a slam-dunk case that he's a berlusconi-style buffoon who doesn't believe or give a shit about any of this.

otm

Anyway, it's not a three, it's a yogh. (Tom D.), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:33 (four years ago) link

he's made it abundantly clear his "commitment" to the Republican Party is conditional on how he's "treated" - he doesn't give a shit about the party.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:33 (four years ago) link

he's using the party, he has no allegiance to it

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:34 (four years ago) link

i think he's going to try and start his own news network tbh

rap is dad (it's a boy!), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:34 (four years ago) link

Actually Donald Trump isn't a fascist, he is a dumb whiny man-baby with freedom fries where his testicles should be

you're breaking the NAP (DJP), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:36 (four years ago) link

anyway I agree w what Alex in SF and JCLC have said so far and stand by what I said on the og campaign thread: there's enough overlap between the positions and statements Trump has made and traditionally fascist ideologies to merit the use of the term imo. I think it's strange and inaccurate to act like his racism and eagerness to exploit racism in his base are situational responses to particular conditions - there is no "problem" with undocumented immigrants or Muslims in the sense that Trump and his base think it is (that they're "taking American jobs", depressing wages, destroying American culture, pose a security threat, etc.), those are all window-dressing manifestations of deep-seated racism rooted in the sense that the volk (white + Christian) of America feel threatened. That his statements don't mirror or match the extent of Hitler's views is irrelevant, it's the appeal to the violation of "true" Americans, to the sense of aggrieved identity, that is fascist.

xp

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:39 (four years ago) link

since we've got this thread and part of the title is "what is fascism," let me ask a question i asked facebook yesterday:

In 1944 George Orwell wrote in "What is Fascism?":

But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make.
What do you suppose are the admissions Orwell thinks Fascists, Conservatives and Socialists are unwilling to make?

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:48 (four years ago) link

Here's the link for full context: http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:48 (four years ago) link

do we reveal anything new/useful about the world by calling him a fascist, or do we just enjoy having the opportunity to use the word?

back to iatee's point, beyond our potential (ab)use of the term in our little backwater of the internet, to the limited extent that the press/media has any impact on the polity's grasp of the candidates I think it's useful for major media outlets to be comfortable applying the term to Chump, it could be useful in solidifying opposition to him and making the views he espouses less acceptable in the general discourse. I think the degree to which we can limit the general acceptability of hateful demagoguery with potentially violent consequences is an important end-goal in itself.

xp

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:52 (four years ago) link

What do you suppose are the admissions Orwell thinks Fascists, Conservatives and Socialists are unwilling to make?

I would assume he means they don't want to admit how much alike they can be

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:53 (four years ago) link

i don't know why you think in a political context saturated with accusations of fascism applied to all sorts of disparate figures, ideas + parties calling trump a fascist would be anything but another trump in that bucket

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:54 (four years ago) link

guys this is all just pre-opening hype for his DC hotel

https://www.trumphotelcollection.com/washington-dc/

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 16:55 (four years ago) link

He probably frequently borrows some ideas and style from fascists, and he even admires fascists. But Trump is ultimately just about Trump...

fixed

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:29 (one month ago) link

Yeah, Bannon seems fascisty, Miller as well. But Trump is more just a racist and a narcissist and a misogynist and etc etc etc

Frederik B, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:38 (one month ago) link

Bannon looks like the kind of guy who'd be dead within an hour of contracting Covid.

Pinche Cumbion Bien Loco (stevie), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:41 (one month ago) link

Also he slightly resembles the Covid bug.

Pinche Cumbion Bien Loco (stevie), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:41 (one month ago) link

xp I think Bannon wanted to make Trump into a fascist but Trump is sort of untameable

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:44 (one month ago) link

Yeah, fascism is about order through strength (or vice versa), and Trump is neither strong nor orderly.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:45 (one month ago) link

I agree, man alive

Frederik B, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 18:45 (one month ago) link

The leader of the fascist party is a fascist by definition. If he’s empowering and enabling fascist politicians and groups, he’s a fascist. Saying Trump isn’t a fascist is like saying edgelords who shout the N-word aren’t racist because they were “just joking”—what matters is the outcome, not whatever muddled and stupid intent goes on inside his head.

Dan I., Wednesday, 8 April 2020 19:14 (one month ago) link

the best policing of calling things fascist is stephen kotkin saying franco wasn't a fascist

ogmor, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 20:21 (one month ago) link

yeah he's a fascist in the same way Joe Flacco is a Super Bowl MVP

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 20:28 (one month ago) link

it's funny but i remember the ilx debate over whether the band queen was fascist being much longer and more intense than the debate over whether donald trump is fascist

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 20:40 (one month ago) link

arguing over whether something fits some fixed definition of fascism is a bullshit waste of time but i'm suspicious of ppl who are *adamant* that trump or whoever right wing scumbag isn't at all fascist

aaaaeeeeeeoooooooowwww (Left), Wednesday, 8 April 2020 21:02 (one month ago) link

the internet is grand

brimstead, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 21:04 (one month ago) link

it doesn't matter what fascist means what matters is that i get to call ppl it

Mordy, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 21:10 (one month ago) link

SLAB

ogmor, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 21:12 (one month ago) link

otm

silby, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 21:21 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

Really not very good at being a fascist

anvil, Sunday, 17 May 2020 12:09 (one week ago) link

This slo-mo sunday-night-massacre, and the inability of anyone to stop him, is freaking me out.

Pinche Cumbion Bien Loco (stevie), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:23 (one week ago) link

basically I’m thinking euro american culture is inherently protofascist & drawing the line is a fools errand

What's (Left), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:32 (one week ago) link

If you're gonna pursue that line, it's not just Euro-American culture tbh.

pomenitul, Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:36 (one week ago) link

where did I say just

but who are we talking about here, where did most of the biggest colonisers come from

What's (Left), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:40 (one week ago) link

Yeah, that's fair.

pomenitul, Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:41 (one week ago) link

basically the standard line in this culture is that fascism is bad and colonialism was/is generally good, no wonder we can’t understand/prevent the former

What's (Left), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:45 (one week ago) link

Ime 'colonialism was awful for the most part but the Brits were benevolent barring an exception or two' is a fairly mainstream school of historical 'analysis' in English-speaking Canada.

pomenitul, Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:49 (one week ago) link

everyone thinks the empire they identify with was uniquely benevolent and/or unfairly picked on, we even can’t get past this, fuck nationalism

What's (Left), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:53 (one week ago) link

On the politics of this comparison:

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/05/19/the-trouble-with-comparisons/

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:04 (one week ago) link

Now that we've thoroughly covered Trump, it is time to ask the next burning question: Is US Attorney General William Barr a Fascist?

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:07 (one week ago) link

the more important question: is he the biggest attorney general fascist of all time? because if he isn't, then discussing how bad barr sucks is distracting from the important issue of how bad the past bad AGs were

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:16 (one week ago) link

damn it’s true; Trump cannot possibly be a fascist because he clearly does not have that funny little moustache

Dan I., Tuesday, 19 May 2020 19:41 (one week ago) link

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/20/coronavirus-update-us


President Trump threatened Wednesday to “hold up” federal funding to Michigan if the state proceeds with a plan to send absentee ballot applications to all of its 7.7 million voters in a bid to mitigate the risks of in-person voting in the state’s primary and general election this year.

Trump did not specify which funds he might withhold, and he has not always followed through with similar threats.

His message — delivered in a morning tweet — comes as many states grapple with how to safely proceed with elections. Amid the pandemic, Trump has repeatedly railed against mail-in voting, claiming it is subject to fraud and has hurt Republicans in previous elections.

Pinche Cumbion Bien Loco (stevie), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 12:51 (one week ago) link

fashy fuck

What's (Left), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 13:10 (one week ago) link

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2020/05/28/why-we-need-postal-democracy/

"In fact, there’s little evidence to back Trump’s assertion that voting by mail favors Democrats. Studies of voting by mail in practice reveal no systemic advantage for either party. In the disputed Wisconsin election, The New York Times found that mailed ballots gave a significant advantage to the unexpectedly victorious Democratic candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court, Jill Karofsky. But some experts believe that may have been because the Democratic Party did a better job in this election of urging its voters to cast ballots by mail. Voting by mail may be especially attractive to rural and older voters who have difficulty getting to polling stations—both demographics that tend to skew Republican. Trump himself votes by mail, and Republicans have long aggressively urged their voters to do so where it is allowed. In Pennsylvania, for example, the Republican National Committee is calling it “easy, convenient, and secure.”"

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 13:30 (one week ago) link

It's not about whether it favours the Dems though, is it? It's to sow doubt over the validity of the coming election. It's the same game he played in 2016, anticipating his loss.

Pinche Cumbion Bien Loco (stevie), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 14:01 (one week ago) link

so tired of all this winning

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 14:40 (one week ago) link

"It's not about whether it favours the Dems though, is it?"

I reckon it is about that. He can sow doubts on validity all he likes, it won't matter if he loses.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 15:24 (one week ago) link

If he loses he finally gets to have his media network and get all the adulation with less of the hassle, don't see why that would be a problem for him.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 15:27 (one week ago) link

I sometimes wondered why he didn't just half-ass the rest of his term so he could slide into that network head job he so clearly wants, but I realize the hook of him and his cronies squawking 24-7 about losing an "unfair" election is exactly what he wants to start off with gangbuster ratings.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 15:40 (one week ago) link

I've been (slowly) reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," and it's really remarkable how many at least surface characteristics and beliefs Asshole shares with Hitler. Fortunately, the differences are dramatic and, in the case of the latter, ultimately much more determinative.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:42 (one week ago) link

Sorry, bit of a tangent from that, but which books about history in the 20s / 30s would people reccomend? Bearing in mind that I have probably read enough about Hitler already.

Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:47 (one week ago) link

a rare conservative critique of the right's embrace of neo-nazis

https://thebulwark.com/is-holocaust-denial-conservative-now/

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:56 (one week ago) link

xpost If you've never read it, "The Great War and Modern Memory" by Paul Fussell might be of particular interest to you, as a writer.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:58 (one week ago) link

Winner of both the National Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award and named by the Modern Library one of the twentieth century's 100 Best Non-Fiction Books, Paul Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory was universally acclaimed on publication in 1970. Today, Fussell's landmark study remains as original and gripping as ever: a literate, literary, and unapologetic account of the Great War, the war that changed a generation, ushered in the modern era, and revolutionized how we see the world.

This brilliant work illuminates the trauma and tragedy of modern warfare in fresh, revelatory ways. Exploring the work of Siegfried Sassoon, Robert Graves, Edmund Blunden, David Jones, Isaac Rosenberg, and Wilfred Owen, Fussell supplies contexts, both actual and literary, for those writers who--with conspicuous imaginative and artistic meaning--most effectively memorialized World War I as an historical experience. Dispensing with literary theory and elevated rhetoric, Fussell grounds literary texts in the mud and trenches of World War I and shows how these poems, diaries, novels, and letters reflected the massive changes--in every area, including language itself--brought about by the cataclysm of the Great War. For generations of readers, this work has represented and embodied a model of accessible scholarship, huge ambition, hard-minded research, and haunting detail.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 16:59 (one week ago) link

man those world war guys just can't shut up about sigfried sassoon, OKAY, we GET IT, he was in a WAR and he wrote POEMS jesus

j., Wednesday, 20 May 2020 17:03 (one week ago) link

good memoirs and entertaining novels as well.

by the light of the burning Citroën, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 17:07 (one week ago) link

TS: Sassoon vs. Zazous.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 17:08 (one week ago) link

so the senate majority is moving forward with an investigation of the democratic nominee's son

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/20/senate-committee-authorizes-subpoena-in-hunter-biden-probe-270741

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 21 May 2020 02:40 (six days ago) link

“If there’s nothing there, we’ll find out there’s nothing there. But if there’s something there, the American people need to know that.”

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 21 May 2020 02:41 (six days ago) link

Richard Evans’s Third Reich quadrilogy is a very good and readable nuts and bolts history of the Nazis. The first book is all about 1919-1933.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 21 May 2020 04:51 (six days ago) link

Mona Charon using a pull quote that repudiates Steve King isn’t something I ever expected to see

(so serious) (DJP), Thursday, 21 May 2020 11:39 (six days ago) link


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