Is the West Experiencing a Right-Wing Drift?

Sweeping Win for Cameron in Britain: Conservative Party Secures Majority

Netanyahu’s new government is more right, more religious than last

Liberal Party in charge in Australia, Conservative Party in Canada.

Lawmakers in France Move to Vastly Expand Surveillance

And if so, why?

I don't think so. The United States has a president, who, for all that leftists dislike him, is probably the most left-wing President since the 1970s. In England, the Conservative majority will be smaller than the center-right Conservative-LD coalition that was in charge before, and my sense is that the massive swing from Scottish Labour to SNP is in no way a move to the right. In Canada, NDP just took over one of the most conservative provinces in the country, and Liberals are polling way better than they were back in 2011 when Harper won his current majority; I don't think people are projecting he'll keep that majority in the upcoming election. I don't know much about Australia or France.

I don't think so either. Bibi's coalition not likely to last long, US drifting towards the left afaict. Europe's rightward drift seems largely driven by xenophobia (always with the petty regionalism/nationalism over there) which is sad to watch.

I don't think Canada is more right-wing that it was 10 or 20 years ago. It's just that the more left-leaning vote is split between two parties. Also the Liberals have had terrible leadership in the last decade or so.

The conservatives have been pretty good at keeping everyone together and keeping internal dissent to a minimum.

based on comments in this thread obv the answer is "hell yes"

XP xenophobia of Scots towards the english, maybe

other answer is "because the further right we go the further right people think of as 'left wing'"

Renzi's performance in the Euro elections seemed significant. Huge victory for pro-austerity leader who was thought to be much more divisive. It's mostly fiscal conservatism on the rise in Europe. Despite the growth of the far right the mainstream tends to be more socially liberal I think.

dont forget Greece lol

I guess if you look at the actual governments in place, they are more right-wing, but that feels more like the left not getting their shit together rather than the actual people being more conservative. I don't know. We probably don't have the best systems for electing governments.

XP xenophobia of Scots towards the english, maybe

You're making the assumption that people who vote SNP are nationalists... for a start.

just playing with the yanks tom

Suspected as much, but I remember them having difficulty understanding the concept to left wing nationalists during the referendum, bless 'em.

concept of

theyre some craic hey

The United States has a president, who, for all that leftists dislike him, is probably the most left-wing President since the 1970s

lol, picked that decade due to that anarchist Jimmy Carter? (who ruled out reparations to Vietnam because "the destruction was mutual")

the last liberal POTUS was a man named Lyndon Johnson.

both houses of congress and most of the state houses in the u.s. are controlled by a class of republicans who are probably the most right-wing major faction in america since the southern democrats of the antebellum era. i think the u.s. actually is drifting to the left in a lot of ways, but it's not always perceptible in our elections.

it seems hard to dispute that obama's the most progressive president since johnson, his foreign policy's certainly better.

yeah idk if electorates are drifting right as much as right-wing oligarchs are just tightening their reigns of power

xp

xp

well that's a high raw body count to match even when you bomb 7 Muslim countries

and have prosecuted more whistleblowers than all the other presidents in history

and

"progressive" sure is a versatile word is all im sayin'

I don't think Canada is more right-wing that it was 10 or 20 years ago. It's just that the more left-leaning vote is split between two parties.

Why do people always say this? The NDP has been around since 1961; before it, the CCF was winning seats in federal elections since 1935. The Liberals still managed to thoroughly dominate Canada in the 20th century, even with a single 'united' PC or Conservative party until the 90s.

In terms of economic policy, I still think the Liberals of the 90s were at least as right-wing as any other post-war federal government. I actually feel like the mood is shifting left these days (which the AB election demonstrates).

I specified "10 or 20 years" specifically because I didn't really follow politics before that. I think the fact that there were multiple right-wing parties in the 90s is a pretty significant reason as to why the Liberals were able to win elections with such large majorities back then.

Here in Quebec it definitely feels like we have shifted to the right. Every successive Liberal leader has been more right-wing than his predecessor.

The West is definitely rightward leaning. The US left is more or less non-existent, beholden to the same corporate interests as the right. They dangle civil rights issues like gay marriage as a carrot to voters, because they know without those issues, nothing much separates their war-and-banks-driven governmental style from the right's. The hope that Obama will close gitmo is certainly worth more monetarily than him actually closing it down.

The question is: is this a recent development or a general tendency of US representative democracy? I suppose it began as representing mainly the interests of those who could legally vote (white male landowners/oligarchs), which you could say is a rightward position. Since then women have been granted the vote and minorities as well, but is their vote worth the same as the oligarchs that have always monopolized representation? No way in hell.

Perhaps in a way we have become more socially liberal, but the systems of control and oppression are working against that development in a way that greatly negates it. Corporate personhood imo continues to devalue "free speech" and the spits at the virtue of representative democracy.

Going by Wiki numbers, the combined popular vote of the Reform and PC parties was still less than the Liberals' share of the popular vote in the 93 and 97 elections. The combined total of the Alliance's and PCs' share of the popular vote in 2000 was just under the Liberals' share and was well under the combined total of the Liberals and NDP. (I also doubt that all PC voters would have chosen the Alliance over the Liberals if they had to choose. Clark himself preferred the Liberals.) King's, St. Laurent's, Pearson's, and Pierre Trudeau's Liberals all managed to win elections (after elections) despite facing left-wing competition.

I get resentful about 'vote-splitting' arguments for a few reasons but especially because I feel that they are usually made by Liberals to unfairly marginalize/minimize/accuse any progressive alternative.

The Liberals lost in 2006 because they were corrupt, arrogant, and entitled. They haven't managed to convince the voting public since then.

for the record, I agree with you re: vote-splitting. I don't want any kind of NDP/Liberals merger and will most likely vote NDP in the next election.

Still, I think it's difficult to argue that the Conservatives being the only viable party right of center doesn't benefit them enormously, allowing them to form majority governments despite not being able to get beyond 40% support.

The real problem is a lack of any kind of proportional representation.

I don't have the nuanced take on what is left wing, probably a bit dated & old fashioned. Indiscriminately killing civilians with drones and police does throw up some red flags though

most nuanced take

It is all shifted right in the context of most other Western countries.

it seems hard to dispute that obama's the most progressive president since johnson

Obama Lashes Out at Liberal Foes of Pacific Trade Deal
By PETER BAKER 3:07 PM ET
At Nike headquarters in Oregon, the president lashed out at critics within his own party, accusing Democrats of deliberately distorting the impact of the trade agreement he is negotiating with Asia.

i didn't think it'd be terribly controversial to say that obama was more progressive than carter or clinton. but yes i'm aware that the guy isn't bernie sanders.

you are also aware some people never get tired of criticizing him

I don't think the left's popularity is waning. It's just that their appeal is becoming more selective.

http://i.imgur.com/OGFBhT3.jpg

Here in Quebec it definitely feels like we have shifted to the right. Every successive Liberal leader has been more right-wing than his predecessor.

― silverfish, Friday, May 8, 2015 2:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not only that, but like in many places across the West, our de facto left wing party has slowly and steadily become right wing.

love the passive voice thread question

plz put the q in active voice for me

present progressive, not passive

de facto left wing party

Had sort of a hollow lol when I realized that this probably refers to the PQ.

h/t the donald trump thread

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/_MxkTUjnGeBaoavzdNapdX_UqkI=/1600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4082854/Figure_7_.0.png

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by "shift in the percentage replying..." -- e.g. if 1000 respondents were surveyed from the United States in 1995 and 50 said "good or very good" then, does the chart mean that the number/1000 increased to 55 in 2014, or does it mean it increased to 150?

i.e. are we talking percent change or percentage point change?

the way i understand it, if in 1955 20% said army rule is good, and then in 2015 30% said so, there would be an increase of 10%? does that make sense?

btw i think the premise of this thread is true more than ever right now.

I don't think there's an overall rightward drift in the US. I do think there's a rightward drift on the right.

xp that makes sense, as long as that's what vox means

btw i think the premise of this thread is true more than ever right now.

― Mordy

I dunno. hard to say. to play devil's advocate:

likelihood is the United States will elect a democrat next year for the third election in a row.

Canada just voted out the conservatives in an election where the conservatives purposefully used wedge issues and stoked islamophobia as a vote-winning tactic.

The ruling party the conservative PP in Spain failed to return a majority in the election on Sunday.

I do think there's a rightward drift on the right.

^^^this

otoh france has moved so far to the right that the socialists had to throw their support behind the republicans to keep the national front out of power

Strange, I had it on good authority no one agrees what the New Popular Front means and the French don't wanf it.

hilarious watching the Eng language version of France 24 anchor saying "after the UK public has voted left..."

"after the UK public has voted, left now was us innit"

Marine has been such a smug fuck for years, glad to see her faceplant in humiliating fashion yet again.

I like how the French left just said faison cela, and here we are.

Nabozo, come out you coward and defend your garbage fucking posting!

He never does.

France’s far-right party Rassemblent National is set to finish third in the country’s elections, and it’s safe to say that the France players are taking the news well. pic.twitter.com/NlCLzg8Mcm

— Zach Lowy (@ZachLowy) July 7, 2024

Reminder: the FN/fash have been blaming the French team’s underperforming in various international competitions on “the players’ backgrounds not meshing well”, and this saying something about society. 🙄

*for literal decades! I recall hearing this argument in France in 2004 but I have found a reference going back to 1996!

Of the French football team, Jean-Marie Le Pen put this back yesterday in an interview with France-Soir. Explaining that "many members of this team are because they have been subject to complacent naturalisation", the far-right leader regretted that "we recruit foreigners too easily who are naturalised". And the president of the FN to make the list of those he considers French of the second division: "Desailly was born in Ghana, Martins is Portuguese bi-national, having opted for French nationality to be part of this team, Lamouchi is Tunisian born in France, Loko Congolese born in France, Zidane Algerian born in France, Madar Tunisian born in France, Djorkaeff Armenian born in France." By the way, the president of the FN pretends to forget that before the reform of the nationality code in 1993, every child born on French territory was automatically French. And Le Pen, who "does not believe that the French team is representative of the sporting quality of our country", concluded: "It would be nice to find players in France." The Integration Delegate, Hamlaoui Mekachera, said he was "strightened by the irresponsible, xenophobic and inadmissible statements" of the President of the FN

lol suck it up losers

All these videos of French fascists waiting for the exit poll and then standing there with faces like smacked arses when it pops up are incredible. So funny.pic.twitter.com/O2LMV6dRvp

— Daniel Austin (@_Dan_Austin) July 7, 2024

Attendees at the National Rally's election watch party react to results of the exit poll (via @2022Elections) pic.twitter.com/57bTHbQPqe

— Populism Updates (@PopulismUpdates) July 7, 2024

Résultats législatives: explosion de joie au rassemblement de La France insoumise après l'annonce des premières projections pic.twitter.com/hZVHoz8lco

— BFMTV (@BFMTV) July 7, 2024

Nabozo not the only kne crying tonight.

Life comes at you fast pic.twitter.com/nCAU5LRw8u

— Kam Sandhu (@_kayayem) July 7, 2024

dare I hope that this all bodes well for the USA?

good job France, mmm delicious fascist tears

This is quite something

Macron turned out to be crazy like a fox - even if it means potentially the end of his personal pet project to make himself Emperor

You’d need a heart of stone not to laugh

pic.twitter.com/FcxUqHMmRr

— NJ 💮 (@NoJusticeMTG) July 7, 2024

Sadly it seems the Green MP for expats in northern Europe did NOT win despite what Wikipedia says..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_constituency_for_French_residents_overseas

Lots of protestors clashing with police in Paris, but nobody really knows who they are or why they're protesting #justfrenchthings

No one knows who they were or what they were doing...
But their legacy remains

lol

Lot of questions about why Macron called snap elections. One clear factor: By ordering speed campaign, he expected Left could not unite, & so they'd be knocked out in Round 1, helping his own party.

Instead, Left united within days—& now surged to win biggest bloc in Assembly.

Yup, its a terrific thread to track, with lots of stories from individual constituencies. I link it from here but its worth scrolling through the whole lot

Where I'm at right now on the big board:

Left bloc: 128
Macron bloc: 110
RN/far-right bloc: 122
LR/right: 33
Other left: 8
Other right: 15
Others: 6

More cities, areas with weak far-right, coming.
REMAIN: 155. https://t.co/flcrayTYwq

— Taniel (@Taniel) July 7, 2024

What is depressing is the spread of RN now.. it used to be more geographically contained

From that thread it looks like there will be attempts to destroy the Left coalition. Its all fragmented so we'll see. We know that no one has won outright. Also Melenchon wants to recognize Palestine so him near the top of French politics would be hard to see...xp

i think he’s already promised not to be PM

I see.

Since I posted that we have all seats nearly called. More conclusions.

"What's next?"

Tricky!
—You don't necessarily need a majority to govern; you can govern with a plurality. Macron did since 2022.
—But *how small* can that plurality get to be workable?
—Does Left stay united?
—No clear precedent here in France. Not since the 1950s.

— Taniel (@Taniel) July 7, 2024

Fantastic result. But very hard to see how the next government forms, with lots of dangers for the left. The centrists will have to be involved, and they'll refuse to have anything to do with LFI. If the govt ends up some kind of coalition of the centre and soft left, that could be a mess.

it’s good that the fascists lost tbh

They lost, but still significantly increased the size of their bloc in parliament. If the next govt is a flop, who knows what happens in the presidential election. Maybe it's Le Pen and Melenchon in the runoff, in which case it would be touch and go...

Hang it in the Louvre pic.twitter.com/jWKP2zQpxD

— Tiberius (@ecomarxi) July 7, 2024

https://ywitter.com/normcharlatan/status/1810168387496030540

I would so wear that shirt

Dude looks like a classmate who’s a bad influence on the oldest Taylor brother on ‘Home Improvement.’ https://t.co/SMnpPcKV3b

— Norm Charlatan (@normcharlatan) July 8, 2024

I'm getting a young Steve Bannon vibe

Strange, I had it on good authority no one agrees what the New Popular Front means and the French don't wanf it.
― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, July 7, 2024 9:16 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

If you read again, I said "Republican Front", as a direct translation of Front Républicain, the idea that a coalition around the governing establishment can ward off both the far-left and far-right, keeping the extremes out. You said you lived in France, right ?

Very happy that the RN is kept in the opposition, as a now familiar, unfortunate, but manageable situation across EU. Also opens the possibility of Macron governing on the left for the rest of his mandate. I did say I was only expecting a marginal shift on the right. I did fear a complete collapse of the presidential party, and found it irresponsible that some elites were pushing for it. The left doing so good is unexpected, and of course they're still divided, but good scores can reunite them.

Cry more.

Si vous vous demandez comment bien dormir cette nuit, regardez la réaction des électeurs du RN aux résultats #electionslegislatives2024 pic.twitter.com/ycMjlkLGC5

— 🇫🇷 (@StrorviV3) July 7, 2024

All the right people are alarmed by this result - FN themselves ofc but also Brussels, Israel, centrist television commentariat

Pouring one out for the French corporations!
“France’s corporate bosses are racing to build contacts with Marine Le Pen’s far right after recoiling from the radical tax-and-spend agenda of the rival leftwing alliance in the country’s snap parliamentary elections”. https://t.co/YbqQjGYjqA pic.twitter.com/XKMWhcMvfZ

— Albert Pinto (@70sBachchan) July 7, 2024

I love the south of France, I have relatives in Nimes and Montpellier, I've spent a lot of time there - but Jesus Christ, apart from a couple of pockets in Montpellier and Marseille, it's completely brown now. You could literally walk from the Spanish to the Italian border without stepping out of a constituency that voted far right.

Depressing.

Needs more migrants

If you read again, I said "Republican Front", as a direct translation of Front Républicain, the idea that a coalition around the governing establishment can ward off both the far-left and far-right, keeping the extremes out. You said you lived in France, right ?

Sorry for misreading you. I don't, but my wife hails from there and we've a lot of family.

Also opens the possibility of Macron governing on the left for the rest of his mandate.

Macron is now an irrelevance.

Lol what a little bitch.

Emmanuel Macron has asked Gabriel Attal to stay on as prime minister, for the time being.

Good interview.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-uncertain-outcomes-of-emmanuel-macrons-election-maneuver

Update: it's now official, in a just-released communiqué Macron has rejected a government led by the New Popular Front (NPF).

It's an unprecedented situation in the history of the 5th French Republic: the loser in the election effectively rejects yielding power to the winner.… https://t.co/MP39ccYbpf pic.twitter.com/Tj8yvkD0Rr

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) August 26, 2024

He's in talks with the far right apparently.

talk social democracy, do fascism. that be the way of these cunts