Is the West Experiencing a Right-Wing Drift?

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And if so, why?

Mordy, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:18 (nine years ago) link

I don't think so. The United States has a president, who, for all that leftists dislike him, is probably the most left-wing President since the 1970s. In England, the Conservative majority will be smaller than the center-right Conservative-LD coalition that was in charge before, and my sense is that the massive swing from Scottish Labour to SNP is in no way a move to the right. In Canada, NDP just took over one of the most conservative provinces in the country, and Liberals are polling way better than they were back in 2011 when Harper won his current majority; I don't think people are projecting he'll keep that majority in the upcoming election. I don't know much about Australia or France.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:26 (nine years ago) link

I don't think so either. Bibi's coalition not likely to last long, US drifting towards the left afaict. Europe's rightward drift seems largely driven by xenophobia (always with the petty regionalism/nationalism over there) which is sad to watch.

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:35 (nine years ago) link

I don't think Canada is more right-wing that it was 10 or 20 years ago. It's just that the more left-leaning vote is split between two parties. Also the Liberals have had terrible leadership in the last decade or so.

The conservatives have been pretty good at keeping everyone together and keeping internal dissent to a minimum.

silverfish, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:37 (nine years ago) link

based on comments in this thread obv the answer is "hell yes"

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:38 (nine years ago) link

XP xenophobia of Scots towards the english, maybe

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:39 (nine years ago) link

other answer is "because the further right we go the further right people think of as 'left wing'"

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:39 (nine years ago) link

Renzi's performance in the Euro elections seemed significant. Huge victory for pro-austerity leader who was thought to be much more divisive. It's mostly fiscal conservatism on the rise in Europe. Despite the growth of the far right the mainstream tends to be more socially liberal I think.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:41 (nine years ago) link

dont forget Greece lol

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:43 (nine years ago) link

I guess if you look at the actual governments in place, they are more right-wing, but that feels more like the left not getting their shit together rather than the actual people being more conservative. I don't know. We probably don't have the best systems for electing governments.

silverfish, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:43 (nine years ago) link

XP xenophobia of Scots towards the english, maybe

You're making the assumption that people who vote SNP are nationalists... for a start.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:45 (nine years ago) link

just playing with the yanks tom

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:46 (nine years ago) link

Suspected as much, but I remember them having difficulty understanding the concept to left wing nationalists during the referendum, bless 'em.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link

concept of

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link

theyre some craic hey

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:51 (nine years ago) link

The United States has a president, who, for all that leftists dislike him, is probably the most left-wing President since the 1970s

lol, picked that decade due to that anarchist Jimmy Carter? (who ruled out reparations to Vietnam because "the destruction was mutual")

the last liberal POTUS was a man named Lyndon Johnson.

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:53 (nine years ago) link

both houses of congress and most of the state houses in the u.s. are controlled by a class of republicans who are probably the most right-wing major faction in america since the southern democrats of the antebellum era. i think the u.s. actually is drifting to the left in a lot of ways, but it's not always perceptible in our elections.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:01 (nine years ago) link

it seems hard to dispute that obama's the most progressive president since johnson, his foreign policy's certainly better.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:03 (nine years ago) link

yeah idk if electorates are drifting right as much as right-wing oligarchs are just tightening their reigns of power

xp

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 May 2015 18:04 (nine years ago) link

xp

well that's a high raw body count to match even when you bomb 7 Muslim countries

and have prosecuted more whistleblowers than all the other presidents in history

and

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:06 (nine years ago) link

"progressive" sure is a versatile word is all im sayin'

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:06 (nine years ago) link

I don't think Canada is more right-wing that it was 10 or 20 years ago. It's just that the more left-leaning vote is split between two parties.

Why do people always say this? The NDP has been around since 1961; before it, the CCF was winning seats in federal elections since 1935. The Liberals still managed to thoroughly dominate Canada in the 20th century, even with a single 'united' PC or Conservative party until the 90s.

In terms of economic policy, I still think the Liberals of the 90s were at least as right-wing as any other post-war federal government. I actually feel like the mood is shifting left these days (which the AB election demonstrates).

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:07 (nine years ago) link

I specified "10 or 20 years" specifically because I didn't really follow politics before that. I think the fact that there were multiple right-wing parties in the 90s is a pretty significant reason as to why the Liberals were able to win elections with such large majorities back then.

Here in Quebec it definitely feels like we have shifted to the right. Every successive Liberal leader has been more right-wing than his predecessor.

silverfish, Friday, 8 May 2015 18:20 (nine years ago) link

The West is definitely rightward leaning. The US left is more or less non-existent, beholden to the same corporate interests as the right. They dangle civil rights issues like gay marriage as a carrot to voters, because they know without those issues, nothing much separates their war-and-banks-driven governmental style from the right's. The hope that Obama will close gitmo is certainly worth more monetarily than him actually closing it down.

The question is: is this a recent development or a general tendency of US representative democracy? I suppose it began as representing mainly the interests of those who could legally vote (white male landowners/oligarchs), which you could say is a rightward position. Since then women have been granted the vote and minorities as well, but is their vote worth the same as the oligarchs that have always monopolized representation? No way in hell.

Perhaps in a way we have become more socially liberal, but the systems of control and oppression are working against that development in a way that greatly negates it. Corporate personhood imo continues to devalue "free speech" and the spits at the virtue of representative democracy.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:24 (nine years ago) link

Going by Wiki numbers, the combined popular vote of the Reform and PC parties was still less than the Liberals' share of the popular vote in the 93 and 97 elections. The combined total of the Alliance's and PCs' share of the popular vote in 2000 was just under the Liberals' share and was well under the combined total of the Liberals and NDP. (I also doubt that all PC voters would have chosen the Alliance over the Liberals if they had to choose. Clark himself preferred the Liberals.) King's, St. Laurent's, Pearson's, and Pierre Trudeau's Liberals all managed to win elections (after elections) despite facing left-wing competition.

I get resentful about 'vote-splitting' arguments for a few reasons but especially because I feel that they are usually made by Liberals to unfairly marginalize/minimize/accuse any progressive alternative.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:41 (nine years ago) link

The Liberals lost in 2006 because they were corrupt, arrogant, and entitled. They haven't managed to convince the voting public since then.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:56 (nine years ago) link

for the record, I agree with you re: vote-splitting. I don't want any kind of NDP/Liberals merger and will most likely vote NDP in the next election.

Still, I think it's difficult to argue that the Conservatives being the only viable party right of center doesn't benefit them enormously, allowing them to form majority governments despite not being able to get beyond 40% support.

The real problem is a lack of any kind of proportional representation.

silverfish, Friday, 8 May 2015 20:21 (nine years ago) link

I don't have the nuanced take on what is left wing, probably a bit dated & old fashioned. Indiscriminately killing civilians with drones and police does throw up some red flags though

xelab, Friday, 8 May 2015 20:49 (nine years ago) link

most nuanced take

xelab, Friday, 8 May 2015 20:51 (nine years ago) link

It is all shifted right in the context of most other Western countries.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 8 May 2015 21:10 (nine years ago) link

it seems hard to dispute that obama's the most progressive president since johnson

Obama Lashes Out at Liberal Foes of Pacific Trade Deal
By PETER BAKER 3:07 PM ET
At Nike headquarters in Oregon, the president lashed out at critics within his own party, accusing Democrats of deliberately distorting the impact of the trade agreement he is negotiating with Asia.

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 May 2015 21:50 (nine years ago) link

i didn't think it'd be terribly controversial to say that obama was more progressive than carter or clinton. but yes i'm aware that the guy isn't bernie sanders.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 23:44 (nine years ago) link

you are also aware some people never get tired of criticizing him

the late great, Saturday, 9 May 2015 00:03 (nine years ago) link

I don't think the left's popularity is waning. It's just that their appeal is becoming more selective.

Inf (latebloomer), Saturday, 9 May 2015 20:08 (nine years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/OGFBhT3.jpg

, Saturday, 9 May 2015 20:59 (nine years ago) link

Here in Quebec it definitely feels like we have shifted to the right. Every successive Liberal leader has been more right-wing than his predecessor.

― silverfish, Friday, May 8, 2015 2:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not only that, but like in many places across the West, our de facto left wing party has slowly and steadily become right wing.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 9 May 2015 21:01 (nine years ago) link

love the passive voice thread question

Vic Perry, Saturday, 9 May 2015 23:20 (nine years ago) link

plz put the q in active voice for me

Mordy, Saturday, 9 May 2015 23:35 (nine years ago) link

present progressive, not passive

bamcquern, Saturday, 9 May 2015 23:48 (nine years ago) link

de facto left wing party

Had sort of a hollow lol when I realized that this probably refers to the PQ.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 10 May 2015 12:31 (nine years ago) link

seven months pass...

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by "shift in the percentage replying..." -- e.g. if 1000 respondents were surveyed from the United States in 1995 and 50 said "good or very good" then, does the chart mean that the number/1000 increased to 55 in 2014, or does it mean it increased to 150?

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:03 (eight years ago) link

i.e. are we talking percent change or percentage point change?

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:04 (eight years ago) link

the way i understand it, if in 1955 20% said army rule is good, and then in 2015 30% said so, there would be an increase of 10%? does that make sense?

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:18 (eight years ago) link

btw i think the premise of this thread is true more than ever right now.

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:18 (eight years ago) link

I don't think there's an overall rightward drift in the US. I do think there's a rightward drift on the right.

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:23 (eight years ago) link

xp that makes sense, as long as that's what vox means

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:23 (eight years ago) link

btw i think the premise of this thread is true more than ever right now.

― Mordy

I dunno. hard to say. to play devil's advocate:

likelihood is the United States will elect a democrat next year for the third election in a row.

Canada just voted out the conservatives in an election where the conservatives purposefully used wedge issues and stoked islamophobia as a vote-winning tactic.

The ruling party the conservative PP in Spain failed to return a majority in the election on Sunday.

Karl Rove Knausgård (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:35 (eight years ago) link

I do think there's a rightward drift on the right.

^^^this

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:46 (eight years ago) link

otoh france has moved so far to the right that the socialists had to throw their support behind the republicans to keep the national front out of power

Mordy, Wednesday, 23 December 2015 19:50 (eight years ago) link

Are expat “leave” Brits able to vote?

from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 11 March 2024 20:50 (two months ago) link

The Faro stuff is interesting, because as far as I can tell tell its the district with the most pronounced population increase, and the only district outside of Lisbon and a couple of surrounding districts to be increasing at all, with population decline elsewhere (may be looking at outdated figures)

anvil, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:35 (two months ago) link

although to Boring's point above an increase in the population doesnt necessarily mean an increase in population eligible to vote

anvil, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:37 (two months ago) link

Also was listening to this on my run this morning, which is more broadly about the decline of the center-left across Europe post 2004, creating the space for populist parties to move into. Touches briefly on Portugal and Spain. Probably familiar material to many but was useful for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39V5_ui0XAA

anvil, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:44 (two months ago) link

thought this article on Melenchon and the other French lefty parties was interesting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/magazine/french-left-politics-melenchon.html

hope they can somehow beat Le Pen

symsymsym, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:58 (two months ago) link

One thing I think I might mention is Portugal is on the whole a rather homogenous country with not that much variation in demographics, no real separatist groups, centuries old coherence in language, religion, culture - I'm from the Azores which are probably the most distant within that context and it's still nowhere near comparable to the differences I've seen within the UK, Germany, US. So granular district by district analysis might yield limited results in a forest for the trees sense.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:09 (two months ago) link

thought this article on Melenchon and the other French lefty parties was interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/magazine/french-left-politics-melenchon.html
hope they can somehow beat Le Pen

― symsymsym, Wednesday, March 13, 2024 6:58 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Le Pen is far ahead in polls, the left coalition is a disaster and full of dissensions, France needs a figure to preserve Macron's legacy (Attal ?) but the French hate themselves too much to know what's good for them. Mélenchon will do a good score again, but under Le Pen. Yet I think the far right will be pushed back yet again, unless Marine gives Jordan Bardella his chance, which I don't think she will.

Nabozo, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:43 (two months ago) link

Yes def need to preserve the glorious legacy of Macron

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:47 (two months ago) link

Has there been a significant increase in 'the same damn candidates for the third election in a row' situations worldwide or does it just seem like it?

nashwan, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:59 (two months ago) link

Yes def need to preserve the glorious legacy of Macron
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, March 13, 2024 11:47 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't really expect more from politicians, and certainly nothing glorious. I see him as a center-right blueprint, and the alternatives as worse. I'm not French nor a close follower though.

Nabozo, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 12:40 (two months ago) link

He's been steadily dogwhistling to racists, trying to stop the rise of the FN by co-optinh its rhetoric into a more socially palpable framing. He's also presided over increasingly scarier initiatives to clamp down on the right to protest and give the cops more and more leeway for using violence. Even my wife's dad, who is centre left and hates Melenchon, is disgusted with him.

Less important but the fact that there's no obvious good replacement in line for Macron is, for the man himself, a feature not a bug - he hollowed out the PS to benefit a political movement based entirely around his own cult of personality.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 13:08 (two months ago) link

I certainly dislike his minister of interior (Darmamin) and surely there are things to criticize, but I still think he's the most competent and likable of the French presidents I've known (counting from Chirac). The immigration bill appeared tactical and potentially a good electoral move: giving an image of toughness, letting the far-right introduce amendments, most of which will be eviscerated by the constitutional court. Anyway, I don't believe Macron is going on a right-wing drift, he's always balanced (maybe more clumsily than adroitly) between the two sides. The cult of personality thing is also a feature arguably.

Nabozo, Thursday, 14 March 2024 08:11 (two months ago) link

centrists never gonna stop believing that reactionary immigration policy is 12D chess instead of what their guys actually believe in

papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 14 March 2024 08:17 (two months ago) link

what they actually believe in - nice liberals can't be racist so their support for racist policy always has to be framed as some kind of tactical move - it helps them to have a further-right villain to use as a threat against those who take issue with this bullshit

finding macron likeable is only slightly more fathomable to me than finding trump likeable and that's just on an aesthetic level

Left, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:02 (two months ago) link

Security and foreign policy have always been the go-to for easy gains in electoral points, you won't convince me it's ideological.

Nabozo, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:07 (two months ago) link

But what's unfathomable to me is not seeing a difference between Trump and Macron

Nabozo, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:11 (two months ago) link

I guess Macron’s likeable if you don’t care about Muslims or black people or the poor.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:11 (two months ago) link

You won't convince me that pandering to racists and the far right really is a positive electorally.

man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:12 (two months ago) link

It was fun how he tried to move the press room at the Elysee so journalists couldn’t see who came and went, surely not something that would ever backfire with fascists in power

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:14 (two months ago) link

But what's unfathomable to me is not seeing a difference between Trump and Macron

That's not what was said though.

man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:14 (two months ago) link

I'm not French nor a close follower though.


No shit.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:15 (two months ago) link

The recently released video clips from 2022 of Macron talking to both Zelenskyy and Putin on the phone have such a weird uncanny valley feeling about them (Putins 'sorry bro I'm at the gym about to play hockey' line?). I feel like I'm being duped by a skit

anvil, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:20 (two months ago) link

You won't convince me that pandering to racists and the far right really is a positive electorally.

― man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:12 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not "pandering", but hard disagree. If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years, it's that you cannot let them occupy the security and immigration terrain alone, because that's exactly where you can (and need) to contain their growth. We can discuss how to best manage it and nobody is saying the French immigration bill was the only option.

Nabozo, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:21 (two months ago) link

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:25 (two months ago) link

Here’s an idea: all the fascists’ ideas are bad, and you do not, in fact, need to hand it to them.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:26 (two months ago) link

The far right have nothing to say on the subject of security that isn’t “persecute Muslims” and “restrict civil liberties”. Most of them take Russian money and hang out with people who are huge security risks.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:27 (two months ago) link

The thing about is it strategic vs is it ideological is that it doesn't matter - playing with anti immigration sentiment still moves the overton window and the idea that you could then somehow keep things to acceptable levels (whatever those would be) is delusional.

Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:28 (two months ago) link

The only acceptable level to the fascists is none and repatriation of people who’ve been there generations. Let’s just be honest about that.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:29 (two months ago) link

Yes. Also pandering, and that is exactly the right word, hasn't worked and will never work.

man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:31 (two months ago) link

hey if there's one thing the history of fascists in power has taught us it's that they definitely moderate their demands if you accommodate them a little

Morris O’Shea Salazar (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:33 (two months ago) link

With the proviso of course that if you actually believe in these policies, it isn't pandering.

man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:33 (two months ago) link

the "Is" in this thread title needs moving two places to the right, funnily enough

Morris O’Shea Salazar (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:38 (two months ago) link

that's not very funny

Left, Thursday, 14 March 2024 09:47 (two months ago) link

Security and foreign policy have always been the go-to for easy gains in electoral points

Citation needed, this strategy appears to be a failure when it's tried. Even the glorious centrist revolutions in the west of the past decades (Blair, Clinton, 2017 Macron) were riding on an economic message first and foremost.

If you're a reactionary/racist voter and have the choice of a gleefully reactionary/racist candidate and a candidate that's open to a little bit of reaction/racism for a treat - what, exactly, is supposed to be the draw of the latter?

you won't convince me it's ideological.

Being open to a little strategic racism is itself ideological.

papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 14 March 2024 17:35 (two months ago) link

otm

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 14 March 2024 17:37 (two months ago) link

I don’t think Nah, bozo will be responding, somehow.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Thursday, 14 March 2024 17:38 (two months ago) link

Seriously doesn’t matter whether those enacting racist policy do so out of conviction or cynicism, but also the whole “I know they don’t believe it in their secret heart of hearts” bit is — at best — naive credulity masquerading as realpolitik. At worst, well.

cozen itt (wins), Thursday, 14 March 2024 18:53 (two months ago) link

Reading this thread with Gustavo Petro's quote from last year on the back of my mind: "Many in Europe have already welcomed Hitler into their homes", something like that

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 16 March 2024 07:35 (two months ago) link

The West has been experiencing a right wing drift since about 1979.

Zelda Zonk, Saturday, 16 March 2024 08:08 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

Weird string of physical attacks on various politicians the last few months

anvil, Thursday, 9 May 2024 17:43 (three weeks ago) link

(in Germany)

anvil, Thursday, 9 May 2024 17:43 (three weeks ago) link

Fico/SMER wins as expected (though exit polls got it wrong, polls in the run in were correct)

Fico shot, "life threatening injuries".

I've left the box of soup near your shoes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 May 2024 16:12 (two weeks ago) link

That definitely constitutes a physical attack.

I've left the box of soup near your shoes (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 May 2024 16:13 (two weeks ago) link

he's taken 4 bullets in the stomach apparently, that's some serious shit.

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 15 May 2024 16:16 (two weeks ago) link

Finally some good news

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 15 May 2024 18:21 (two weeks ago) link

Finally something happened

Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 15 May 2024 18:44 (two weeks ago) link

Is there any indication as to what the motivation was or who (if anyone) was behind it? Fico is such a murky guy there could be any number of reasons

anvil, Thursday, 16 May 2024 05:11 (two weeks ago) link

unconfirmed reports are that the perpetrator is a 71-year old activist who opposes the government's attempts to impose political control over the public broadcaster?

ufo, Thursday, 16 May 2024 09:17 (two weeks ago) link

I saw it was a 71 year old but not what the reason was.

Occam's razor seems applicable here, even though there could be a range of possibilities, it looks very lone wolf

anvil, Thursday, 16 May 2024 09:33 (two weeks ago) link

Slovak PM has 'very difficult hours and shits' ahead of him

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Thursday, 16 May 2024 18:36 (two weeks ago) link


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