2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

And Obama's on Foreign Relations, Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs committees -- that doesn't mean he's got any military experience either.

But the idea the HRC is 'stronger on national security' than obama seems to have come from nowhere. Is there any evidence to suggest that she'd be a better commander in cheif, apart from public perception?

she appears to enjoy cluster-bombing little children, that should count for something

pseudo-Marist?

http://www.marists.org/

http://www.maristsociety.org/

HRC's Iraq/Iran votes were supposed to bolster her hawkish bona fides, FWIW.

But the idea the HRC is 'stronger on national security' than obama seems to have come from nowhere. Is there any evidence to suggest that she'd be a better commander in cheif, apart from public perception?

It's the public perception that I'm talking about - a public perception which she seems to be unable (or unwilling) to capitalize on - despite the fact that McCain is bound to make it a major issue in the fall. It just seems unusually clumsy for someone who's considered to be such a smart campaigner. Perhaps Obama has really got her terrified to bring it up by constantly bashing her with the Iraq vote.

she's a hawk?

NY Times Editorial sez: Show Us The Money

HRC's Iraq/Iran votes were supposed to bolster her hawkish bona fides, FWIW.

so you think getting on the wrong side of the most important issues of the day was a "strategy"?

yall realize that hillary has been making speeches critical of the war, of the bush admin's approach to it, of the execution of it, and the rebuilding "efforts" for years right??

There's a difference between words and actions there, unfortunately.

do you not remember 2003 and the immense popular support for the war, both in congress and in the general public? of course she voted for it. xxpost

Nicole i agree -- it was a terrible vote

guess what: the clinton banner flies whichever way the wind is blowing.

yall realize that hillary has been making speeches critical of the war, of the bush admin's approach to it, of the execution of it, and the rebuilding "efforts" for years right??

uh while this might be technically true its more accurate to say that hillarys stances on the war have followed behind public popular public opinion by abt 6 months

or what elmo said

George H.W. Bush (41) set to endsorse McCain.

Well, yeah. What th' fuck else is he gonna do?

cry in his beer

Pegs Noonan on the zing:

The race is about "speeches versus solutions." Her unnamed opponent stands for the first, she for the second. He is all "words," she is "action." "Words are cheap," she said.

If they were so cheap, her inability to marshal them would not have cost her so dearly.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120302279226969393.html

boo-ya

hahaha

hil v mathews round 1m http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2008/02/unrepentent_mat.php

so you think getting on the wrong side of the most important issues of the day was a "strategy"?

Yes, I do. A strategy that may have backfired.

"may have"

why anyone would want to vote for someone who makes such unprincipled AND totally stupid strategic decisions continues to elude me

I say "may have," Shakey, because the nomination is still undecided.

Obama, at a presser this morning, makes a pretty good parry of Clinton's "solutions" attack:

"Yesterday, Senator Clinton unveiled her latest in a long line of slogans, which argues that she’s proposed solutions while others have not. Now, all of us have proposed plenty of solutions in this race. On some we differ. On many, we agree. The problem we have is not a lack of good ideas. It’s that Washington today is a place where good ideas go to die. They’re the victim of petty, partisan politics, point-scoring, and special interest influence that’s out of control."

http://thepage.time.com/obama-remarks-from-friday-press-conference/

It’s that Washington today is a place where good ideas go to die.

again with the zings

maybe hill would have preferred to keep troops off the ground and go back to bombing the shit out iraq by plane?

oh and sanctions - can't forget those.

cool: bob kerrey, who endorsed hillary, calls the campaign out on the florida bullshit:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Kerrey_Sorry_Florida.html

(not that he has any say in the matter, it's just cool that someone who even endorsed hillary sees that it's kind of a b.s. move)

Yeah, the call by the Clinton campaign to seat Florida & Michigan delegates is I think the least defensible move they've made in the campaign so far.

again with the zings

But they're still better zings.

The health care talk was alright. Tammy Baldwin & Ann Lewis talking up Hilary and the universal health care plan. It was interesting to get some details on the plan, which does sound appealing on paper - if you like the health care plan you've got, stick with it, and if you don't like it or don't have health care you can choose from a federal menu of private and public plans (like government employees get now?). Paid for by tax subsidies and hopefully made cheap by low administrative overhead (comparisons with social security) and reliance on IT. They got some tough questions but there wasn't a whole lot of time for Q&A.

(it's not enough to swing my vote or anything, but it sure would be great if something like that could actually get passed & implemented)

But they're still better zings.

oh definitely! I was approving

http://i31.tinypic.com/qnmvj4.jpg

Putin is such a gangster

I'm not really much of a Noonan fan, but this a good point:

To top it all off, Mrs. Clinton has, for 30 years, held deep respect for her husband's political acumen, for his natural, instinctive sense of how to campaign. And he's never let her down. Now he's flat-footed, an oaf lurching from local radio interview to finger-pointing lecture. Where did the golden gut go? How did his gifts abandon him?

What has happened to Bill? People can say what they like about his politics, but he did seem to have a good ear for what the public wanted to hear and he seems to have lost that now.

9/11 changed everything?

(Slightly more seriously -- seems like any pro in any field who, having gotten used to coasting by while at the top of the totem pole, gets lazy/befuddled/frustrated when things don't work anymore and starts to flail.)

^^^otm

its cause hes not campaigning for himself - that remove is fucking w/his instincts

Bill Clinton is like the Michael Jackson of American politics (sans plastic surgery)

and sans fucking kids

IT IS BECAUSE HE IS CURRENTLY NOT GETTING ANY ON THE SIDE.

its cause hes not campaigning for himself - that remove is fucking w/his instincts

-- jhøshea

Who knows, but this feels true. He's a creature of ego, and the role he's currently playing doesn't serve that (& isn't served by that).

whats the difference between michael jackson and bill clinton...?