c/d: paris hilton

Buying Thudercats t-shirts=ironic

Unh-uh. So sincere. Ho!

Haha wait you mean my vague description of decade trends doesn't accurately describe EVERYONE?!?!?

No seriously though, I'm not saying kids today aren't earnest, just that there are certain types of 90s idealistic earnestness that are considered pretty passe these days -- it feels like young people now inhabit our society a lot more naturally (because they grew up in a really large cohort of children) and instead of the attempted thinky/progressive earnestness of the 90s they're just naturally, conventionally earnest. (And that'll probably continue, because kids growing up on stuff like High School Musical are MEGA on the having-a-huge-culture-cohort thing.)

In any case it seems completely wrong to say the 90s were frivolous and ironic.

xpost 90s political obsessions were not centered anywhere near Clinton's penis

Haha I should really be using the Real World to trace a timeline of youth culture preferences, but it seems not with it without Dan around to assist -- from AIDS activists and cartoonists to ... everyone gets drunk and naked a lot. That's the kind of shift I'm talking about w/r/t the kids.

xpost 90s political obsessions were not centered anywhere near Clinton's penis

Don't know what yer on about now.

For one thing I'm on about the Lewinsky thing not happening until 1998.

In terms of socio-political issues way more of the 90s were spent fighting about gays in the military and abortion than Lewinsky (or any of the other women making Clinton-related accusations, which mostly just helped conservatives hate Clinton on a personal level without its becoming much of a political issue).

yeah, the 90s were much more about Billary murdering Vince Foster, and the cottage industry that developed from getting the truth out.

i'm serious, too

80s cartoons aside, I agree that putting people in prison for drunk driving won't stop drunk driving accidents from happening. People under the influence of alcohol are terrible at making decisions about right and wrong.

What we oughta do is produce cars that are fool-proof, so that drunks can't operate them. Breath alcohol ignition interlock devices oughta be as standard as airbags. If people will try to drive drunk regardless of the consequences, might as well make it really difficult for them.

Paris wasn't drunk the second time she was arrested though, right? If you know you're not supposed to drive, don't fucking drive. And if you know you're not supposed to drive and you want to do it anyway, try and be real low-key about it. Don't drive like such an idiot (lights off; 70 in a 35) that you'll get pulled over.

Paris wasn't drunk the second time she was arrested though, right?

yeah, the point is that a) drunk driving is bad, and b) being brazenly cavalier about the punishment the justice system does dole out to you is just fucking rude.

for driving drunk, without a license, after twice being forbidden to drive? of course, because that's harmless, right?

not to defend her, but is that what happened? I thought she was picked up for a DUI, license was suspended, and then she was just caught driving twice on a suspended license, but not drunk at those times

oh oops, xpost

which direction are people driving when they drive drunk? to work? to home? where do they start? the bar. Insure the bar AND the driver and all of a sudden there's a genuine incentive besides good citizenship and the outside chance of a successful civil suit to force your patrons into a fucking cab.

"deterrence" works best if you apply it to people who are likely to be have some control over a situation - meaning not drunk, among other things

also, her excuse was that her manager told her she could drive for work purposes. the fact that she has no job obscures this issue a bit.

what about people who get drunk at work?

"Start drinking at 7am friday"

the master distiller should be provided with transportation on the company dime

http://www.chrisgenoa.com/archives/Drunk_Dino.jpeg

http://www.poster.net/martin-dean/martin-dean-wine-drinker-5000546.jpg

In terms of socio-political issues way more of the 90s were spent fighting about gays in the military and abortion than Lewinsky (or any of the other women making Clinton-related accusations, which mostly just helped conservatives hate Clinton on a personal level without its becoming much of a political issue).

Don't want to keep going on about this but gays-in-military was a blip for most Americans and abortion was a side issue for crazies just as it had been in the '80s. The American left had no real organized agenda in the '90s other than gaping in horror at Clinton's compromises with Gringrich.

Most of the political passion was on the right, and it was focused on Clinton's sex life from the moment he entered national politics. Read or watch The Hunting of the President for evidence. Everything, including the Vince Foster stuff (was he banging Hillary? was he covering up Clinton's affairs? blah blah) had to do with it. Monica was just the culmination of this, when the whole country had to hear about this stuff every day for about a year & a half.

so regardless, we wouldn't have been hearing about Paris, because clinton didn't schtupper.

which direction are people driving when they drive drunk? to work? to home? where do they start? the bar. Insure the bar AND the driver and all of a sudden there's a genuine incentive besides good citizenship and the outside chance of a successful civil suit to force your patrons into a fucking cab.

Many states have "dram shop" acts that make bars secondarily liable for injuries negligently caused to third parties by obviously drunken patrons. Dunno if California has one or not.

As for "deterrence don't work"--I think that's a major overstatement. Does it refer to specific deterrence (preventing the individual from reoffending) or general deterrence (preventing all citizens from engaging in the prohibited behavior)? I suspect the former may actually work in this case, since Paris is so clearly freaked by being in jail that she really won't want to go back.

what would you suggest then, nrq? and if it was some travelling-salesman bonehead driving drunk while banned, should they not go to prison if repeated cautions don't deter them?

i'm really not a 'lock em up' type person at all, but driving drunk is pretty fucked up and indefensible.

-- stevie, Saturday, June 9, 2007 5:58 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

confiscation of property in this case would do it--in case of most people confiscation of car would work, but i suppose less so for someone that rich.

-- That one guy that quit, Saturday, June 9, 2007 5:36 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

i might feel difft if prisons weren't the way they are. jailtime may stop DUIs reoffending, but it doesn't seem to have that effect on violent crime, for example.

I actually tend to agree with that, but it's a distraction from the main point in this case. I'll say it again, house arrest/ankle monitor/cupcakes were not going to change PH's behavior, and "HALT -- SLAMMER TIME" probably will.

IF SHE LIVES THROUGH IT, HEH HEH HEH.

AND WILL SHE? (Classic vague 'sources tell us' story.)

jailtime may stop DUIs reoffending, but it doesn't seem to have that effect on violent crime, for example.

Depends on the type of crime. Obviously it's very difficult to deter impulsive crimes, since they are by definition not really premeditated. General deterrence is most effective when punishment is swift and reasonably certain, when it is closely tied to the gravity of the offense, and this information is widely known. General deterrence theory is essentially a kind of economic analysis of crime, the idea being that where the consequences for the bad actor are sufficiently severe and likely that he will be forced to think about and consider those consequences before engaging the bad act. For it to work, legislators can't be tweaking punishment and crimes all the freaking time.

(xpost obv)

where the consequences for the bad actor are sufficiently severe and likely that he will be forced to think about and consider those consequences before engaging the bad act.

with winning strategies like that the drug war will be over by christmas.

Congratulations, you're the most sour, miserable human alive.

i get that a lot

Cripes.

All of this outrage is missplaced! The outrage should be aimed at the fact LA County has an overcorwding issue and Sheriff Baca has to have a program in place to control the population. If everyone in the country who has served every second of their county jail sentence or feels completely outraged would send money to a LA County Jail Expansion Fund then maybe all of this outrage could actually do some good in the future! Our aim should be to make sure EVERYONE in LA County that is sentenced to county jail serves their entire sentence!

The entire country needs to deal with the facts of how things are in LA County as told by Sheriff Baca. He stated the typical in Paris's situation. And it isn't what she is getting. All in the name of publicity. SHE SHOULD BE LET FREE NOW AND NOT A SECOND FURTHER!!!!FREE PARIS! TREAT HER LIKE ANYONE AND EVERYONE IN LA COUNTY!!!!

The sad fact is that not every state is the same when it comes to sentences for DUI offenses. Our state has mandatory minimum sentence that includes mandatory county jail, loss of license and a hefty fine with increases in time and amounts for each occurrence thereafter however, I don't live in CA. You should be outraged at the CA government for sentence minimums not Paris Hilton!

Paris needs to be treated like everyone else in LA County! And the fact is that she isn't! And you idiots who don't get that need some serious help is seeing the big picture!

PARDON PARIS!!! PRESIDENT BUSH PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! ARONLD SCHWARZENEGGER PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!! PARDON PARIS!!!

I respect the fact that you believe there's something larger at stake. I might vote for you in IL08.

Togtq, I don't have time to get into this right now, but what I was referring to are typical underpinnings for a general deterrence view of punishment. There are others (I'm mainly an incapacitation guy, myself).
Wikipedia's got a reasonable summary of the main views.

dear god this country

Hahah, I know where river wolf got that from...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-03/31/xinsrc_52203033109449371583310.jpg

Why on earth would she want people to compare her face with Hepburn's?

ya srsly, she's hardly ugly, but compared to Audrey Hepburn she looks like a bucket of fried chicken with a tiara.

"Today I told my attorneys not to appeal the judge's decision. While I greatly appreciate the Sheriff's concern for my health and welfare, after meeting with doctors I intend to serve my time as ordered by the judge.

This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done. During the past several days, I have had a lot of time to reflect and have already learned a bitter, but important lesson from this experience.

As I have said before, I hope others will learn from my mistake. I have also had time to read the mail from my fans. I very much appreciate all of their good wishes and hope they will keep their letters coming.

I must also say that I was shocked to see all of the attention devoted to the amount of time I would spend in jail for what I had done by the media, public and city officials. I would hope going forward that the public and the media will focus on more important things, like the men and women serving our country in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places around the world."

OOH BURN PWN3D BY PAR1S SO TOTALLY TOLD WHAT AN AWESOME POINT SHE HAS THERE ABOUT HOW THERE'S BETTER STUFF TO PAY ATTENTION TO

PARIS OTM LOLZ

photo looks like it's winking at me.

"I must also say that when people pay attention to the other stuff I do like the tv series or going to lots of PARTIES lol, then it is totally appropriate to dig that as a little relief from the Iraq war and all that. Nothing wrong with a little escapism. But escapism that's actually laughing at me, no, totally uncool. The media should only focus on me when it's cool with me, k thx bye."

so funny: i was at my hairdresser's this morning, and i got involved in a little coffee talk re: Paris. which isn't really that odd, but it was like talking about the same stuff as on this thread. which also isn't that odd - i guess it's just kind of hilarious how pervasive her existence is in everyday interaction. like the winter weather, she has absolutely become a means of relating to other people.

This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done.

HELLO no fuckin shit, lady.

also j0hn otm x10

so funny: i was at my hairdresser's this morning, and i got involved in a little coffee talk re: Paris. which isn't really that odd, but it was like talking about the same stuff as on this thread. which also isn't that odd - i guess it's just kind of hilarious how pervasive her existence is in everyday interaction. like the winter weather, she has absolutely become a means of relating to other people.

-- Surmounter, Sunday, June 10, 2007 3:35 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

people, irl, talking about the same shit as folks on the internet.

whatever next?

lol i know it's true, but it's funny cuz it's so intellectualized here - it feels odd taking part in such conversation at a hole-in-the-wall hairdresser's.

cuz we did get past the "oh GOD, i can't believe they let her out" thing, which seems to the usual interaction i have re: Paris