ILX TOP 50 FILMS OF 2000-2004 BALLOTS/VOTING

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anyway good job using republican talking points to defend twee indie bullshit - 2 stones, 1 bird

Good job in mixing my point with a totally different discussion to make it sound suspicious.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:58 (eighteen years ago) link

As I'm well known to be one of the biggest right-wingers on ILE.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link

so you misused a word but put it in quotes because you didnt want to catch shit for it

― zzzzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link

maybe instead of saying north africans are ethnic you couldve said they were north africans

― zzzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link

man I've been avoiding Amelie for years just because I couldn't stand the thought of another visually bonkers bit of twee nonsense (esp from france, yeeha) but now i've got me a REAL trump card I can pull out if I want to be a self-righteous asshole about it.

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link

handy guide to republican talking points - ethnicity has no relevance, only their personality, which is why people don't think of the as "ethnic". Which I think should be seen as a positive thing.

― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I accidentally nominated a 2005 film.

― [jailhouse tattoo] (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link

do you think inventing & promoting a twee all-white version of an ethnically diverse city already ruled by a right-wing white racist overclass who wishes non-whites would disappear (and make everything look like in the film) has no political connotations?

― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link

maybe take the amelie discussion to this thread? examples of mainstream culture that white nationalists can safely enjoy
-- zzzzzzz (zzzz...), December 15th, 2005. (tracklink)

Granted, there isn't an in-depth discourse on the nature of race and nationalist hegemony running through Amelie, but since its a slightly twee, nostalgic love story (of sorts) that's not too surprising. My main problem with what you're saying is that you could aim that claim at SO MANY films - most Hollywood love stories, for example. If your sole objection is lack of non-white characters, why select this film in particular?

Also, in your point above, you seem to be suggesting that all characters who are not white should have storylines that make a point of this. Surely this would be a step backwards?

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:06 (eighteen years ago) link

What is a North African then? If Lucien is a second or third generation immigrant, is he North African? Besides, I was talking about the lack of non-white characters in Amélie, so I used the word "ethnic" because there other minorities than North Africans in Paris.

handy guide to republican talking points - ethnicity has no relevance, only their personality, which is why people don't think of the as "ethnic". Which I think should be seen as a positive thing.

In this fucking film, not neceessarily in every film, or in general!!! This is getting tedious, I'm off.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link

i think a lot of francophiles simply don't know shit aside from what they see in movies.

x-post to ethan

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link

What's your argument here? You could only love France if you don't know very much about it? Seems like a very strange argument to me.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm kind of disappointed that evidently all my friends & relatives who dig the movie are only approving a film that offensively misrepresents a region they know little about rather than a film with obvious-to-anyone-who-glances-at-it racism. It's been a while since I've gotten to browbeat them without any sense of hypocrisy.

x-post i'm saying that evidently the racism of the film requires knowledge of more than some Louis Malle.

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:11 (eighteen years ago) link

evidently to catch the racism, rather.

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I had no idea Amelie was this controversial. I thought people just hated it for being twee.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Do you think the Socialist mayor running Paris is particularly racist? I'm sure there are worse options.

I don't think Paris is an outrageously racist place, at least no more than the rest of the world. I saw more overt racism in, say New York. And far more in Florida.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link

This thread seems to have morphed into a Francophobe thread. Which is a shame.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:18 (eighteen years ago) link

*stops liking Seinfeld and Friends*

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:20 (eighteen years ago) link

You like Friends? That's so RACIST!!!

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:22 (eighteen years ago) link

just a little bit

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:23 (eighteen years ago) link

you don't even want to think about Woody Allen

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:24 (eighteen years ago) link

i mean obv you don't have to agree with a film's politix to enjoy it or admire it but the whole 'it's morning in manhattan' whitewash (literally) rightwing jizzing and such really got under my skin. plus that fucking tony roberts - guhhhhh.

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

My, terribly American, ballot:

1. 25th Hour (Lee, 2002)
2. Mulholland Dr. (Lynch, 2001)
3. Before Sunset (Linklater, 2004)
4. Morvern Callar (Ramsay, 2002)
5. Twilight Samurai (Yamada, 2002)
6. Jackass: The Movie (Tremaine, 2002)
7. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Gondry, 2004)
8. Dirty Pretty Things (Frears, 2002)
9. crazy/beautiful (Stockwell, 2001)
10. City Of God (Meirelles, Lund, 2002)
11. Gosford Park (Altman, 2002)
12. Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (Tarantino, 2003)
13. The Good Thief (Jordan, 2002)
14. Wonder Boys (Hanson, 2000)
15. Traffic (Soderbergh, 2000)

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:31 (eighteen years ago) link

France is horribly racist in a lot of ways - I was appalled by the amount of blatant and hateful racist graffiti the first time I visited Paris. I don't much want to defend Amelie, but simply underrepresenting ethnic minorities is a crime committed by a substantial majority of American and British film and TV, so it seems odd to single it out only for that. I'm not clear in what ways it is proposing this much-whiter Paris as preferable - I thought Amelie the character was presented as a ray of sunshine in a pretty lousy world, and don't recall any sense of being encouraged to see that Paris as a better one.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 15 December 2005 18:32 (eighteen years ago) link

i could get down to about 20 pretty easily, but cutting 5 was tough.

01. George Washington (Green, 2000)
02. Time of the Wolf (Haneke, 2003)
03. The Return (Zvyagintsev, 2003)
04. 25th Hour (Lee, 2002)
05. La Cienaga (Martel, 2001)
06. Bright Leaves (McElwee, 2003)
07. Crimson Gold (Panahi, 2003)
08. The Ninth Day (Schlondorff, 2004)
09. Los Angeles Plays Itself (Andersen, 2003)
10. Elephant (van Sant, 2003)
11. Million Dollar Baby (Eastwood, 2004)
12. Mulholland Dr. (Lynch, 2001)
13. What Time is It There? (Tsai, 2001)
14. Wisconsin Death Trip (Marsh, 1999)
15. Saddest Music in the World (Maddin, 2003)

least:

Dogville (von Trier, 2003)
Lost in Translation (Coppola, 2003)
The Dreamers (Bertolucci, 2003)

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

oops, I forgot to vote for my least favorite:

Lost In Translation
The Dreamers
Ichi The Killer

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link

How is Wisconsin Death Trip eligible if it was released in 1999? Or did I miss something?

― Matt #2 (Matt #2), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

i wondered that too, but since it was on the list...

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:20 (eighteen years ago) link

My mistake, I missed that one when I deleted the other 1999 and 2005 nominations (which included Audition, The Beat That My Heart skipped and a few more).

If anyone who voted for it will send a correction, I'll change it.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:21 (eighteen years ago) link

ok, in that case, please put "sexy beast" in my #14 spot.

― a spectator bird (a spectator bird), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:24 (eighteen years ago) link

1. Platform
2. Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance
3. Los Angeles Plays Itself
4. What Time is it There?
5. Unknown Pleasures
6. Cafe Lumiere
7. Russian Ark
8. Mullholland Drive
9. 2046
10.Elephant
11. Memories of Murder
12. Saddest Music in the World
13. Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle
14. Bring it On
15. The Agronomist

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Thursday, 15 December 2005 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

What to do about blurbs, milo?

― Obsessing over the unobtainable and nonexistent. (Leee), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I was just going to troll ILX, but I'll set up another e-mail on my domain if anyone wants to send in specific blurbs (and make my life easier).

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

doesnt amelie pretend to represent a much wider part of society than films or sitcoms about a small, paranoid clique of anti-social jews

― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

yikes.. i've seen 135 of the films nominated and i haven't seen 132 of them. both statistics are kind of depressing.

― brontosaur, Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll blurb any of my top three, though I doubt any of them will make the final list.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Blurbs address:
ilxblurbs at modsvsrockers dot net

Send in however many you like, please include the titles in the subject (unless there are too many to fit).

Gracias.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

anti-social manhattanite jews, i should say

and just upper manhattan

― zzzzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know, Ethan, did you see Amelie?

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:28 (eighteen years ago) link

And have you ever been to Manhattan?

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:29 (eighteen years ago) link

i was gonna ask

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:30 (eighteen years ago) link

never saw amelie but ive been to manhattan, the only non-white ppl i saw were driving maintenance trucks or pushing carriages with white babies, it was really shocking actually

― zzzz, Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

And I haven't even brought up the female leads re: his film's offensive fantastical qualities.

x-post wtf?!

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

All the people in Chinatown are actually Mickey Rooney in makeup.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Did you take first class to get there? I always take the bus.

― 'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:34 (eighteen years ago) link

And all the latinos in Washington Heights and Spanish Harlem are actually John Tutturro.

x-p

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link

you see what you look for

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I think it's a bit of a shame that people post their votes here, rather than just email them in, cause I kind of feel I know what the winner will be already. But I guess I could just not look at this thread.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link

My list - which I emailed earlier - doesn't much resemble those on show here. Lots of middlebrow US indie and SE Asian films, really.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

The film I have in mind is my #1 too, so I'm happy really.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 15 December 2005 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link

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ILX TOP 50 FILMS OF 2000-2004 BALLOTS/VOTING - ends Jan. 3