The longest, freakiest conspiracy email yet. MUST READ! Opinions please!

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Explosions: of course there would be explosions at the WTC - the planes crashing would alone cause explosions, and fireballs...which could cause further explosions. There were explosions when elevator doors from the hotter stories opened onto the lower floors, etc..

The WTC was built to withstand the collision itself *physically*...but not the other compounding factors - distortion of steel, the fuel load, and fires.

Here is one perspective. There are differences of opinion as to the cause of the collapse itself, but not the cause of the attack on the building, i.e., not 'bombs'.

Kerry, Friday, 1 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, Kerry, I just want to point out they are talking about IMplosions which wouldn't be caused by a jet. A jet WOULD cause EXplosions. IMplosions are how they generally and safely get rid of buildings in big cities. Thanks for the link, i will check it now...

Nude Spock, Friday, 1 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oh, ok, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I believe that. It's a reitteration/reconfirmation of things I heard and read a month or two ago (but in more detail- thanks) that I had forgotten were convincing the first time through. Still, I'm no architect, but if architects agree that this is what should have happened, as they do, then, who am I to call "foul"? I remember people saying it pancaked just like it was supposed to. The only question this email raised in my mind was whether or not a jet would create enough heat to melt a floor and create the pancake effect. It seems the answer is "yes". I really wonder why echelon's report of the threat wasn't enough to stop this. Oh wait, I just remembered that the FBI would have had to lock down the whole country in order to stop the terrorists from hijacking any possible aircraft-- and now things are falling back into sensible place, I guess. Perhaps the whole thing has just left me utterly mindfucked, because frankly, whatever is it the truth of the matter, I can't see a peaceful end in site!

Nude Spock, Friday, 1 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

As a sort of final commentary on why I presented this post in this manner, when some obviously think I shouldn't have presented it at all, I'll quote myself: "So, I got this rather long thing that I at first felt was sensationalist but then realized it seemed pretty realistic and has many true insights". My computer crashed the first time I tried to post the thing as one post. After 10 minutes of restarting, re-entering hotmail, figuring out how much I could copy and paste at a time, etc., I worded the intro so that hopefully people would bother to read the lengthy email, despite it's flaws as a CONSPIRACY THEORY, which I described as "sensationalist", understanding I wasn't entirely smitten with it's contents. It wasn't fully thought out, but I know that I thought the contrast of "sensationalist" with "pretty realistic" and "MANY true insights" would be enough to see where I was coming from. I thought I was conveying that this was obviously not entirely true or entirely realistic, just a conspiracy theory. I see now, that it is not obvious which points I thought were "pretty realistic" and which insights were true. I thought that saying *MANY* true insights was enough to qualify the post, along with saying that it was "freaky" and "sensationalist". I should have been crystal clear, as I said. it still seems odd that certain people who responded (Geoff, Clover) seemed to know where I was coming from and others (fritz, mark, ethan) seemed to be content to cattleprod me as a racist. Ned always seems to be a model example and I really should take a lesson from him. Once again, sorry.

Would anyone like to talk about 911 as a conspiracy and the probabilities of each of the (quite possibly) unrelated coincidences? We could really go beyond this antisemetism thing if we tried.

Nude Spock, Friday, 1 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I would also like to go on record as saying I've gathered Momus is completey boring and lame, his contribution to this thread being the least original response one could hope to get, similar to the feelings I had when I stupidly bought the "urban folk" album. It surprises me that anyone would be interested in this sort of mundane collegiate self-expression, especially the one who is wrongly self-absorbed enough to create it. Write another song about your penis.

Nude spock, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

(i didn't cattleprod you as racist, nude spock, just as being — i thought — a bit frustrating and unclear: "suspect" i admit was a poor word, because what i meant was i was pretty sure your deep theory couldn't redeem itself because you hadn't dealt with the central flaw in the first email; and i wasn't going to spend hours ploughing through unconnected anecdotal details when you weren't dealing with that central crippling problem...

NWO theories fall at the same fence, don't they?: is the US govt already secretly on board and enthusiastically for an NWO, or is it being blackmailed/tricked/bludgeoned into NWO-land against its will... because some of the evidence "points" one way and some the other, but the two cancel each other out.

mark s, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Gosh, bad record review launched as non sequitur from person who finds right wing conspiracy theory intermittently compelling, but can't spell 'anti-semitic'! Thank god he will never be employed by The Village Voice...

Momus, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Mark, I know, I meant I *thought* I was being cattleprodded as a racist. In the earlier posts I expressed that I understood where you and the rest were coming from. Momus, you're right, an anti-semite, would be anti-semitic. It's a word I don't use too often (except recently) and I'm sure I spell words wrong periodically. If I was employed by the village voice, I think I'd use spell-check. Spelling and grammar police are about the lamest of the lame and show a person for the kind of self-absorbed douche s/he really is. If someone truly has a major problem spelling even the simplest of things it might be a convenient attack to pick apart each sentence and tell them to go back to school, but spelling is still a fairly lame yardstick to measure with. Oh well.

Nude Spock, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Nude Spock you do have a point there - however - always commenting on Momus' album that would be lamest of the lame. I've been slowly digesting the post. Shall come up with any thoughts on it later.

sonny tremaine, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Spell-checking as the ultimate proof of self-absorption? Well, why not, in a world where the WTC implodes because Mossad got there with dynamite before the planes, the Federal Reserve is a weird private bank and the UN a sinister cosmopolitan threat to 'Old Glory'?

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Momus, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Nope, I'm too stoopit, ya asswipe.

Nude Spock, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Spell-checking as the ultimate proof of self-absorption?

Yeah, it's not much different than fashion judgements. It takes a little bit of thought to get this line of reasoning. I don't expect you'll "get it" anytime soon. Tell ya what, research "genius". You'll soon discover you ain't one regardeless of what that fop of a rag, the Voice, has to say regarding your lameass art.

Nude Spock, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

If you knew who I am you just might feel stupid. You never will, though. If I was as self-centered as you... I *would* give my id away as quickly as you do. "Look at me! I'm Momus!"

Certain people here know precisely who I am. Nude Spock is very knowable, in fact. Ask around. I've received big fancy awards for being this prick. Ned?

Nude Spock, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Something this massive is going to produce zillions of coincidences. You can spin almost any conspiracy theory you like (or you can concatenate several, like the quoted one does). I'm sending Sundar a video tape of his performance in Branca's "guitar army" at the bottom of the WTC last year. You know the next thing on the DV tape that was in the camera? The WTC burning, as shot from my roof. There was no conspiracy though. We didn't know the WTC was going to go down. It's just one of those things. You can spin whatever you want. I LOVE conspiracy theories, Spock, and I think a lot of people here do too. It's all about what KIND of conspiracy theory you go for - which one's most entertaining to discuss - since they are all bunk - that's why they're called what they're called - and I think people are a little het up at you for choosing one with such questionable race politics in it. Which you may not have entirely been conscious of when you first posted. You know that thing where you can put ANY piece of audio along with ANY piece of video and find all sorts of "meaningful" points of synchronicity? I think that's mainly what this stuff is, but with a big ol helping of conjecture-glue to string it all together. Like someone who'd edited Dark Side of the Moon to match EVERY SCENE of The Wizard of Oz.

I actually believe there MAY BE a Real Story which we will never know. But I don't think it involves a radically different story of what happened on 9/11. I think if anything, it might involve a different story of what happened BEFORE - what the Bushes' and Cheney's relationships were with the Saudis vis-a-vis their shell corps and investments. Real family history type stuff woven in with long-terms US plans in the region. Weapons manufacturers who own oil companies who want to build pipelines seem like much more plausibly boring villains to me. Either that or it's all the adulterers who are bringing damnation down upon us.

Occam's Hand, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Thanx, dude. I'm sitting here listening to The Yellow Balloon and this whole thread seems ridiculous to me, especially because I posted it.

"Life was just a downer till now and you turned me on and oh wow!!!"

Who knows me, personally, by the way? just curious. I just watched Waking Life again and would like to talk about it with real people (heybuddy@hotmail.com).

Nude spock, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

If you knew who I am you just might feel stupid

I don't care if you're famous or who the hell you are. What exactly is your point?

electric sound of jim, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I've received big fancy awards for being this prick.

Let me guess, they gave you the Pulitzer prize? The Nobel peace prize? Maybe a waxwork replica in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Or perhaps, as a tribute to the unerring logic with which you confront a world of hate and irrationality, they named the world's most beloved Vulcan after you?

Momus, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Best thread ever.

adam, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Actually, Momus comes out the victor because of yer "You do not know who I am" - self absorbed people suggest that they are important - that comment folk should not be or could handle their "true" identities. Whereas Momus just comes on board as Momus. And interacts with the common folk - well you hide behind an identity and tell people that, yes, you should listen to me, you would be 'cited if you know who I am.

Which is just boring.

So, in fact, you destroyed your own argument but creating a sense of false importance about yourself. I mean - I emailed Momus as retrolover and asked him a question once whereas he replied.

I really do not think that Momus is self absorbed, well, as self absorbed as any artist (which you have to be to some extent).

Oh well - I am babbling - I regret now asking several of my "important" threads to look at your argument and contribute, Nude Spock. Cause you are a bit of a fathead, are you not?

sonny tremaine, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Actually, Momus comes out the victor because of yer "You do not know who I am" - self absorbed people suggest that they are important - that comment folk should not be or could handle their "true" identities. Whereas Momus just comes on board as Momus. And interacts with the common folk - well you hide behind an identity and tell people that, yes, you should listen to me, you would be 'cited if you know who I am.

Which is just boring.

So, in fact, you destroyed your own argument but creating a sense of false importance about yourself. I mean - I emailed Momus as retrolover and asked him a question once whereas he replied.

I really do not think that Momus is self absorbed, well, as self absorbed as any artist (which you have to be to some extent).

Oh well - I am babbling - I regret now asking several of my "important" friends to look at your argument and contribute, Nude Spock. Cause you are a bit of a fathead, are you not?

sonny tremaine, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sorry for the response Nude Spock but I have been a spectator to this thread for a few days and was enjoying the checks and balances between you, Momus and Mark S.

You let me down by bringing in irrationality and personal ego issues and then said that you thought everyone, including Momus was incredibly self absorbed!

Go back to arguing the original points of the argument. Otherwise you lose ground....and it gets weighted down.

sonny tremaine, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Who is Nude Spock then?

Luke, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The question is - who cares? "In the future everyone will have their 15 minutes of fame". You will. I will. Nude Spock's "celebrity" is no longer a matter of desirability. It is something that happens to everyone.

The question is - can he sustain an argument?

sonny tremaine, Sunday, 3 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one month passes...
A most interesting dialogue. Thanks, makes one think. I just have one question. What is a 'retrolover'?

Prof Interest, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Afghanistan News

9211, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

three months pass...
To the world who may have a concern:

When I saw the images of September 11 I cried observing so much destruction, especially of human lives, and to those people and their families my simpathy. But, after abrief review of information available to all, I am saddened at the fact that these lives may have been lost not at the hands of traditional "terrorist", but other kind, the kind that you may reach a conclusion.

Not too long ago, in a recent TIME Magazine,(May 20, 1992, Pg 9) there's an article regarding a book ("The Horrifying Fraud".- by Thierry Meyssan) with a new theory about September 11. This article also includes three pictures. Pictures of surveillance cameras posted at the side of the Pentagon building where you fail to see an "airplane" impacting its side. We all were made to believe this.

Additionally it is mentioned that meysan discounts "...expert explanations that the violence of the impact and heat of the explosion caused a virtual atomization of the jet...". I would direct your eyes to (1) August 7 2000 issue of Newsweek Magazine Pg. 42 where it shows debris of this fateful flight (please notice its colors-charred black), (2) Newsweek, July 29 1996, pgs 14-15. I appologize (to families of victims) for citing these as I would like to draw your attention to them. Regardless of size, there is always remains of an airplane.

Time September 24 1991 pgs 34-35 show the zise of an aircraft impact yet on 66-67 there is quite a different outlook of destruction. On Newsweek September 24, 2001 pgs. 18-19 you will find a picture of the Pentagon. I may be inclined to believe that the building, due to its nature has a sturdy design, but fortunately for the people inside the area fo destruction only covers the span of 5 to 6 windows, and a closer peek of another picture Newsweek June 10, 1992 pg 8-9 reveal that three windows down the destroyed area, the "glass windows" survided the extreme heat and impact of the airplane, and on page 1 of this same issue, the picture is quite clear as one can make out several items that were inside the offices before the... explosion??? except one thing... an airplane. Astonishingly, even colors stand out in this area where in other incidents, the predominant color was charred black.

In this same issue it recalls the possible agencied that bungled and did not foretell the attacks. But it is quite interesting what it is said about the investigation of the quasi pilots "...Neither man lost sight of the primary mission: learning to fly airplanes.... but they were impossible to teach... both men (had) a half-dozen classes on the ground before taking them up in a single engine Cessna in "MAY" (emphasis added)... but (the instructor) soon gave up on his hapless students. "I just thought they didn't have the aptitude" he says. "They were like Dumb and Dumber".

This is quite astonishing how a "hapless" student can be learning in May to fly a Cessna and in September skilfully manipulate a Boeing 757 into a building. Or, maybe there was help as indicated by Meyssan, that "...New York amateur radio operators, who say they picked up signals of navigational beacons within the towers..."

Finally, I believe that the defense department as well as the air traffic controllers over the DC area are quite experienced. How can a Boeing 757 slip their eagle eyes. This certainly was not the case just recently with another airplane that was in restricted airspace.

I have looked at the images in magazines and there are many questions unanswered. If the Meyssan article had been in relation with any other building I might have dismissed it without a second look and quite disgusted out of respect of those fallen. But there was an explosion in the Pentagon, not an "ordinary building". If an airplane did not impact it, who or what caused the explosion in a building that may have state of the art security measures and the people who work there are.... well you know.

I would like some answers, because the incidents changes our world for good... or might I say for bad.

"Thomas", Monday, 1 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

three years pass...
Hello. I can verify the truth of this article. I am an American who was in Saudi Arabia on 9-11. It was plastered all over the news there that many of the alleged hijackers were not the real hijackers because when photo IDs were made public, the photo IDs matched up with living Saudis alive and in the Kingdom (they should be dead if they hijacked the planes). So who were the real hijackers? It is well known that Israelis and Arabs infiltrate each other in spy rings. It is too easy for Israelis to pose as Arabs using false IDs, and vice versa. It was publicised on the news in Saudi Arabia that thousands of Jews did not go to work in the Twin Towers that morning of 9-11. How did they know not to go? Who told them? Was it the Mossad? Did they know because they were behind the attacks? What about the Fox News reports of the Israeli Art Students who lived near the alleged Mohammed Atta in Hollywood Florida? These Israeli spies are gaining access to many of our Federal buildings, drawing blueprints and then leaving. Many of them were former Israeli Military personnel who worked in explosive ordinace divisions. What is goig on? Wake up America! This story is not taken seriously by most media because it is Israel who controls that media. America is dominated by Zionist Jews (a fact stated by Sharon) who control the majority of our media, our corporations and our central banks. This is a well-known and well-documented fact. Zionist Jews who oppress the world through the manipulation and mastery of money wish for nothing more than what they have attained: World domination. He who controls the money controls everyone. It is no coincidence that the American Federal Reserve Banks are privately owned, mostly by Zionist Jews, and that Hollywood is controlled by a Zionist Jew, the actor Judd Hirsch.
What we do know about the attacks is that America is now attacking the Arab world, a ploy that Israel just happens to suport for reasons none other than to help us fight their dirty, ugly hatred towards Arabs. America is a predominately Christian Country. Sharon is not killing Palestinians, he is killing Christians. He wants us to help him kill more. Our media uses the word "Palestinian" so that we do not see the truth, which is "Christians."
As Christians, we should take heed and warning that Jesus gave us in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 of the Jews who are not real Jews, but who are "The Synagogue of Satan." Real Jews would not break God's Covenant as in Exodus 22:25 which states that you cannot run a money lending istitution (a bank) and loan money to people at interest to enslave them into poverty, just as Zionist Jews have done with the central banks all over the world.
Will the true Jews who adhere to God's law be saved from anti-semitism? I think we need to see who the liars are who are not real Jews and have them tried for oppresion.

David Trafford, Saturday, 24 September 2005 02:50 (eighteen years ago) link

That's funny. I know of Jews who were killed in the WTC. Maybe you'd like to talk to their families.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I also love the "Israeli Art Students" conspiracy theories going around the net. You know why? Because I have two Israeli friends who participated in this art student thing. It's a cheap money-making scheme. Believe me, neither of them are bright enough to be spies.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:41 (eighteen years ago) link

THIS IS MY VIWE
THERE WAS ALOT OF HATEFUL PEOPLE THAT DAY
ALOT OF PEOPLE HATE AMERICA BECAUSE OF THINGS THEY HAVE DONE IN PAST
THE KEY WORD IS PAST
LET IT GO PEOPLE
IF WE ALL GET ON
MAYBE MOTHER EARTH WILL START LOBING US AGAIN
IT IS A VERY EASY EMOTION
LOVE
IT IS NOT VERY HARD TO GIVE TO PEOPLE
IF WE LOVE THE HATEFUL PEOPLE
WE CAN PUT LOVE INTO THERE HEARTS
AND MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD TOWARDS THEMSELVES
AND FORGET THE PAST
WE NED TO MOVE ON
WE NED TO KNOW WHERE WERE GOING
BEFORE WE GET THERE
WE NED TO BE BETTER EACH OTHER
IT CAN START ANYWHERE
EVEN JUST ON A MESSAGE BOARD
IF WE ARE BETTER TO JUST ONE PERSON
THAT PERSON MIGHT SPREAD IT ON
WE NED TO THINK ABOUT THIS
YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE

, Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:41 (eighteen years ago) link

WE NED TO THINK ABOUT THIS

Ned to thread!

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 24 September 2005 03:44 (eighteen years ago) link

dont you understand? it's code! NED HAS SOME SECRETS

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 24 September 2005 04:00 (eighteen years ago) link

TOP SECRET: da troof

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 24 September 2005 04:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Good lord what a nutty thread.

So who did NudeSpock claim to "be" anyway? Wotta dick.

Trayce (trayce), Saturday, 24 September 2005 04:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I am constantly amazed by how patient old-ILX was with Nude Spock/Scaredy Cat and his Conspiracy of the Day bullshit. Remember that religious thread with him on it? Bloody hell.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 24 September 2005 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link

He was a disgrace to naked vulcans everywhere.

estela (estela), Saturday, 24 September 2005 12:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Idaho weatherman quits, says he wants to pursue hurricane theory


The Associated Press

IDAHO FALLS, Idaho – A Pocatello weatherman who gained attention for an unusual theory that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the Japanese mafia using a Russian electromagnetic generator has quit the television station.

Scott Stevens' last appearance on KPVI-TV was Thursday.

His departure comes after station officials learned a link labeled "Make a Donation" on Stevens' Web site, www.weatherwars.info, where he expounds on his theory, opened a payment form connected to Stevens' KPVI e-mail address.

Still, station manager Bill Fouch, who'd told Stevens he should keep his views separate from his TV role, insisted his former employee wasn't forced out.

"Scott advised me several months ago that he wouldn't renew his contract so he could devote full time to this," Fouch said. "He wants to get right at it."

Stevens believes a little-known oversight in physical laws makes it possible to create and control storms using a Cold War-era weapon allegedly made by the Russians in 1976. The nine-year KPVI weatherman said he's received 120,000 hits on his Web site in two days, now gets about 100 e-mails a day and has 15 radio bookings in the next five days.

"I needed more time to do everything that's been put in front of me," said Stevens, 39. "I have not been able to dedicate the 40 hours a week to this place."

Earlier this week, scientists told the Idaho Falls Post Register the theory was bogus.

"It's laughable to think it (Hurricane Katrina) could have been manmade," said Rob Young, a hurricane expert at Western Carolina University in Cullowhee, N.C.

M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 24 September 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

oversight in physical laws

OMG, the "Designer" is not so "intelligent" after all.

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 24 September 2005 13:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh was NS Scaredey Cat? Wasnt that the guy who went off on insane rants abt vegetarianism at one point?

Trayce (trayce), Saturday, 24 September 2005 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I am constantly amazed by how patient old-ILX was with Nude Spock/Scaredy Cat and his Conspiracy of the Day bullshit.

the upside of it was the old-ilx appeared to be a hotbed of good-faith arguments/debates, rather than threads that erupted into flames as soon as somebody said something disagreeable. Can it be an accident that these threads "erupt" into flames? No no it's the Mossad sez I

Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:35 (eighteen years ago) link

dont you understand? it's code! NED HAS SOME SECRETS

I know what I'm doing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link

opened a payment form connected to Stevens' KPVI e-mail address.

okay, first thing you wanna do when setting up your website is....

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:44 (eighteen years ago) link

"It's laughable to think it (Hurricane Katrina) could have been manmade," said Rob Young, a hurricane expert at Western Carolina University in Cullowhee, N.C.

yes, but he doesn't explain why it's 'laughable'. I SMELL COVERUP.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 24 September 2005 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

That revival post had me up until "Judd Hirsch."

rogermexico (rogermexico), Saturday, 24 September 2005 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.nndb.com/people/589/000023520/hirsch-sized.jpg
"call me 'godfather'"

foxy boxer (stevie), Saturday, 24 September 2005 16:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Judd Hirsch controls Hollywood?


WHO KNEW

tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Saturday, 24 September 2005 16:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Gee, you'd think he'd give himself bigger roles.

Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Saturday, 24 September 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

haha yeah i was reading that post, somewhat interested, until "hollywood is controlled by the actor Judd Hirsch" - then I burst into laughter

Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Saturday, 24 September 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
http://andykaufman.jvlnet.com/tvguide.jpg

kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 29 September 2006 17:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Seriously though wtf is a "retrolover?"

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 29 September 2006 17:19 (seventeen years ago) link


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