Chicago: When Someone Rides Free We All Pay!!!!!!!!!

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Personally, I prefer "To Live and Die in LBI".

daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I'm not saying this is ALWAYS true or must be ALWAYS observed. It's just that for a special time, a special gift, sometimes spending the extra dough says something extra. That's all.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

It's different for parents because they have given me so much, I often feel the need to show them that I appreciate it. My parents are not my peers.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

i wish i had dough :(

gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I need something new to make this year. Ornaments are played out, so I don't want to go that route. I was thinking of making a Christmas album where Nick and I record all the songs. Corny? Definitely. I still get the fam "real" gifts too, but I think the diy ones are more meaningful.

Queen Sarah Saturday (coco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Absolutely, there have been years when I didn't get presents for ANYONE, because I was unemployed and fucked.

Mistake: straw-man assumption that money vs personal meaning is a zero-sum game. It's not. It's life! Sometimes awesome, meaningful things aren't cheap or free! And my parents sacrified their wants and needs in order to clothe us, feed us, and allow us to have good experiences as kids -- my mother didn't buy clothes or cosmetics or nice things for herself for twenty years and she was often deeply embarrassed at her inability to look as nice as her peers, for instance, but she still made sure we had winter coats/field trips/swimming lessons. Buying her beautiful things now, especially since I'm in NYC and have access to luxury items that she doesn't, is the least I can do to buoy her self-image.

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:39 (seventeen years ago) link

jaymc, i have a rav. hookup as well if you need the tix

deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

(or anyone else i suppose)

deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

is the least I can do to buoy her self-image.

i just tell her that her grey hair looks distinguished

gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

In conclusion, IT DEPENDS. :-D

I love the knit scarves my sister Leslie and Nick's sister have made for me. I tried to learn how to do it myself for my own gifts but failed miserably.

In other news, who wants to guest on my Christmas album? Jooohhhhnnn? You could play some nice bell-sounding keyboards. I think I'll do the whole thing in Garage Band, with a mix of original and traditional songs.

Queen Sarah Saturday (coco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Kr made the same point about parental sacrifice, and am I just an idiot for not being aware of this? I can't imagine my dad living any differently if he had kids to pay for or not. And my mom is definitely more extravagant now than she used to be, but her income is also greater now than it ever has been, so I don't necessarily chalk that up to the kids being out of the house and college payments made.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Sorry, still thinking: my mother is a DO-ER. She does for others and puts herself last, in expenditure as in all else. (I'm not saying that's necessarily a good idea, as a life-strategy.) When I scrimp elsewhere to provide niceties for her, it uses a language that she already understands to say that she's as valuable to me as I have always been to her. Obv this is a personal thing and not a universal one, but I think there's something like it underlying a lot of people's feelings about approaching our mothers as adults.

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:43 (seventeen years ago) link

F. Fictions - Real Xmas

Eazy (Eazy), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm gonna learn to knit!

gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Laurel OTM. On the Mommy.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, what Laurel said.

I don't have enough time to do it up right as a FF album. Plus, Ben would have to pull a Streisand.

Queen Sarah Saturday (coco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link

oh man, x-mas is going to be expensive this year. y'all are making me feel GUILTY.

not me man, barring the inexplicable this will be the first year since 96 or 97 without a girlfriend at xmas. my sisters and i don't spend a lot of money on each other, we much rather prefer to get one another something completely rediculous (like the rooster shaped alarm clock that cock-a-doodle-doo's when the alarm goes off) to anything practical. shopping for my folks is hard because i don't talk to them often enough to know what they want or need.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link

The Xmas album is a great idea.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't imagine my dad living any differently if he had kids to pay for or not.

This isn't entirely true. He's gone to India, Mexico, and Scandinavia within the last couple of years. But on a day-to-day level, he's still going to be watching a small TV on an old sofa wearing clothes from Lands End until he kicks it.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Re awareness of parental sacrifice: I dunno, John. Maybe your family was better off than mine, or maybe having fewer kids makes a big difference (well, obviously) or maybe our families just spent their money differently/had different expectations.

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I really think all of this comes down to a) how much money your parents have vs. how much money you have, and b) the relationship you have with your parents. Which aren't universal. And so I've been resenting the way some of you have been treating them as such, but I have, too, since I brought the whole thing up as a matter of discussion.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:51 (seventeen years ago) link

and c) the relationship your parents and you, as individuals, have with money.

Eazy (Eazy), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:52 (seventeen years ago) link

this is an interesting conversation. i've been broke plenty o' times & so defaulted to homemade gifts a lot. last year, i actually bought people things, but there was still a diy spirit to it. i had a photo that my dad took of me on a trip to FL framed & i think he loved it. i knit my mom this sweet little neck scarf but then also bought her a smattering of misc. things. i nearly always give my brother some alcohol-themed gift (this past year: sailor jerry shot glasses), clothes, or money. he's still in school so anything goes over quite well.
my dad is the hardest to shop for b/c like e's dad, he'll just buy himself stuff when he wants/needs it. this has resulted in my brother & i buying him gift cards to hardware stores & i think we went halvsies on a massage once. he's hard to shop for!
but as for the taking your parents out for dinner thing... i understand why john didn't pick up the tab, but it would've been a nice guesture to do so. bottom line: no big deal. that said, i have yet to buy my parents dinner, but that time is upon me. leaf & i are talking about what to get them for all their work on the wedding planning front + they're paying for my plane ticket to visit in october so i would like to maybe take them out then as well. now that i have a job where the pay is decent, i feel like i can actually pay off some debt & pick up the tab once in a while!

Sweet Tater (kelstarry), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:52 (seventeen years ago) link

And I guess, c) your family's general attitude toward money.

XPOST!!

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Anyway, this could all be solved with a little...

http://www.lybrary.com/images/money_magic.jpg

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

This is why talking about money is a bad idea.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 14:58 (seventeen years ago) link

My parents didn't seem comfortable at all when I took them to the French Laundry and Chez Panisse - some combination of being intimidated by the surroundings and being too preoccupied with the idea of experiencing the meal to actually experience it, and conversation about the cost of the meals and whether it's justifiable. So when a gift - whether it's a Curb Your Enthusiasm DVD or a mix CD or a long visit with them - doesn't make them think of money, it seems like it can be received with less distraction.

Eazy (Eazy), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm surprised that there aren't more movies and plays about money and our subjective relationship with it. We could have a money film festival: Glengarry Glen Ross (this would be great for the Dan M. Cinematheque), Friends with Money.

Eazy (Eazy), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:02 (seventeen years ago) link

that's a great point, EZ. my parents get uncomfortable when they feel as though we've 'overdone' it. i can relate to that.

Sweet Tater (kelstarry), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:05 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost I don't think that movie was about money. Unless you're talking about a different movie, in which case I don't know what you're talking about! :)

daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Are you thinking of Heist? ("Everybody needs money, that's why it's called money!")

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess Glengarry's more about work than money. American Buffalo is all about whether an old nickel is worth a nickel or fifty bucks, and whether it's worth committing a crime to get it.

Eazy (Eazy), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I got myself a present last night. One of these:

http://gallery.rei.com/media/203562.jpg

daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:12 (seventeen years ago) link

i think if you take time and consideration and make a gift, that can mean a lot. one year for my mother i went through and organized my parents' whole photograph collection, which was this disaster of a mess dating back to 1969. then i found pics of me at different stages growing up, and similar ones of my sister, and arranged them into two frames. i had the frames shipped to my sister's, where we hid them until after my parents had gone to bed christmas eve, so the big package under the tree was a big surprise.

my mom cried, it was really sweet.

i've tried making her mix cds, but i never get them quite right anymore. mix cds are wonderful presents though if you're decent at making them.

Juulia (julesbdules), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link

You know, it just occurred to me, I'm a lot more conscious when I'm at dinner with my dad (and he's paying) about whether the restaurant is too expensive -- we went to Trattoria No. 10 a couple months ago and he was like "hmmmm, maybe I'll just get an appetizer and a soup" (even though the restaurant was his idea) -- and I totally make sure he's left enough for tip and am prepared to leave extra if he hasn't. We go to the movies sometimes and it's now at the point (it was an unspoken shift a few months ago) where I pay for my own ticket.

But that's because a) my dad has always been cheap, and b) I've heard him worry about his retirement fund, post-divorce, esp. since he makes considerably less than my mom does. So I feel more inclined to buy him dinner sometime in the future. But I also know that the meal won't be as extravagant as it usually is with my mom.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

i've tried making her mix cds, but i never get them quite right anymore.

same here, i always go overboard with the motorhead.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

money/gifts/parents can be a really weird issue. i feel guilty when my parents spend too much on me, or the times when they've taken me to really expensive restaurants or whatever. i know they can easily afford it, but them spending that lavishly on me makes me uncomfortable.

xp yeah, i'm always looking at prices of different dishes and going for the less expensive ones if i possibly can...

i don't spend much on them really, but hopefully the scarves i've knit and all of that mean something. i'm horrible at buying gifts, and i've kind of run out of thoughtful ideas, which kind of sucks.

my parents have done a lot for me, but they also make fuckloads of money while i'm getting by with four figures. so it's tricky.

Juulia (julesbdules), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

chicago, is it wrong that i find this attractive?

http://i.a.cnn.net./si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0609/campus.superfans2.week4/images/71874_04.jpg

otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:26 (seventeen years ago) link

That's borderline furrydom, man.

daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:27 (seventeen years ago) link

With my dad, I almost always let him pay since he seems happy to do it, and usually won't take no for an answer.

With moms, I always pay because she has no money or source of income. Not that it comes up very much, because until now there have been zero kosher restaurants that she will eat it in Milwaukee (but this placed just opened up called, wait for it, Cafe Osher!).

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

she's got red hair dan, i'm powerless against it. it's like some sort kryptonite or something.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:30 (seventeen years ago) link

So does it have unexplained, short-lasting effects on you, like making you have an evil twin or grow extra arms?

daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

saps me of my strength and clouds my thinking.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link

yiff

gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't like clowns.

People, recommend me some wonderful, inexpensive shampoo.

Queen Sarah Saturday (coco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Whole Foods grapefruit-scented shampoo, $1.99.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:12 (seventeen years ago) link

People, recommend me some wonderful, inexpensive shampoo.

Lush shampoo bar. Lasts forever so the initial outlay is totally worth it.

Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:25 (seventeen years ago) link

As for money and presents, Laurel + Amanda = Me.

I totally resent spending caps on gift-giving, for friends or family. This is a point of tension between Jeff and me because he has a totally different relationship with his family than I do and doesn't understand why I would ever want to buy something for my parents that requires financial sacrifice on our part.

Not that it has to require that sacrifice, but if the gift that I want to give them, be it something to do, eat, own, or whatever, is pricey, I figure, "I sure love these people so I'm going to buy this perfect thing, budget be damed, because it will make them really, really happy."

Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Jeff also has a totally different relationship with money than I do. Times were wicked tight when it was just mom and me against the world (yes, she used to sing that Helen Reddy song to me. Precious, no?) but my family is outrageously generous to each other so I grew up thinking that the right way to be w/r/t money was self-sacrifing yet generous, especially to family. Even when my parents were struggling, I could always count on them to give me the cash hookup, no questions asked, no strings attached. Now they're totally rich, but whatever. So anyway, I kind of look at money as something definitely useful that should also be shared.

And yes, I love telling my Republican mother than she raised a little commie.

Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:39 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm in Baton Rouge, sitting on a side street in my car.

I got confused, I killed a horse (unclejessjess), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 17:39 (seventeen years ago) link


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