bomb alerts and stuff

I can't say the likes of M3lan1e Phi11ips have convinced me either.

(x-post)

Sir Ian Blair was quite convincing on C4 news last night. Maybe I am easily swayed though.

momus otm re. tony blair.

But this has been coming for a long time. The Iraq war might have helped it along, but it's not the root cause. The September 11 attacks pre-dated the Iraq war by a long way. Richard Reid would have been the first British suicide bomber back in 2001 (and killed more people on that aeroplane than died in London) if other passengers hadn't managed to stop him.

This didn't start with Iraq, and it's not about Iraq, but Iraq has stirred things up further.

I just didn't like the opportunistic way the SWP / Stop the War people started trying to used the bombings to back their political position. Just because someone's against the war in Iraq, it doesn't mean that the government is to blame for the bombings or that they should pull out because of the bombings. When anti-abortionist Christian fundamentalists in America shoot doctors dead, it doesn't mean that the government is to blame or that the law should be changed.

See Hinge Verb Query

If by that you mean a refugee, yes. But the Government last week issued a statement that from August 30 people given refugee status will no longer qualify automatically for indefinite leave to remain but instead will be given leave to remain for five years.

In effect: we're going to be detaining and deporting a lot more people straight back to war zones. Good thing all the troubles in places like the Balkans and Zimbawe were sorted out in less than five years, eh Tony?

Erm sorry that was a quote from Stop the War I wasn't saying it. I actually agree that the whole thing is far more complex than that the reductive War on Iraq = Suicide Bombers causality and have been interested in these reactions to StW's ostensible justification. In my mind the NIMBYist "Stop the War to stop the terror in London" is almost as reprehensibly obfuscatory as Blair's justifications.

Yeah, let's keep politics out of politics.

NYTimes today reports that there is evidence that the four bombers may not have known it was a suicide mission:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/27/international/europe/27suicide.html?pagewanted=1&th&emc=th
"
LONDON, July 26 - Within hours of the July 7 attacks here, many British police and intelligence officials assumed that the four bombers had intended to die with their bombs.

But in recent days, some police officials are increasingly considering the possibility that the men did not plan to commit suicide and were duped into dying.

Investigators raising doubts about the suicide assumption have cited evidence to support this theory. Each of the four men who died in the July 7 attacks purchased round-trip railway tickets from Luton to London. Germaine Lindsay's rented car left in Luton had a seven-day parking sticker on the dashboard.

A large quantity of explosives were stored in the trunk of that car, perhaps for another attack. Another bomber had just spent a large sum to repair his car. The men carried driver's licenses and other ID cards with them to their deaths, unusual for suicide bombers.

In addition, none left behind a note, videotape or Internet trail as suicide bombers have done in the past. And the bombers' families were baffled by what seemed to be their decisions to kill themselves.

While some of these clues could be seen as the work of men intent on covering their trail, some investigators increasingly believe that the men may have been conned into carrying the bombs onto the trains and leaving them, thinking they were going to explode minutes later.

It seems pretty unlikely that they didn't know they were suicide bombers. There were no timers, either in the first attacks or the second wave of attacks. There was no reason for them not to carry their ID, as they probably wanted to be known after they died. As for the return tickets, and seven day hire of the car, in Britain a return train ticket costs virtually the same as a single so nobody buys a single. Also they were hardly going to say "Just single tickets for us please, we're going to blow ourselves up in London".

I definitely read that the bus bomb on the 21st was left behind by somebody who got off the bus before it exploded, leaving it behind on the back seat of the top deck.

Bush To London Bombers: 'Bring It On'
WASHINGTON, DC—President Bush officially responded to the latest round of London transit bombings Monday, challenging terrorists to "do their worst." Said Bush, in a televised statement from the Oval Office: "The proud and resilient people of London can take anything the forces of evil and cowardice can throw at them. They will never live in fear of you. Bring it on." Prime Minister Tony Blair thanked Bush for his comments, inviting him to visit London and ride the Underground in a show of solidarity.

Which doesn't explain why the fourth guy carried his around for another hour before exploding it on the No30.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981061.stm

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/03/1080941722786.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true

Yeah, you're right, I forgot that.

Er, that's from The Onion.

What does keep the politics out of politics mean? Don't answer that.

where has the NY times been? that theory was the daily mirror splash two weeks ago on saturday; it had been doing the rounds in this office for two days before that. jesus christ.

x-post

So you've not seen any media commentators or people on the internet saying "tragic mistake, but we musn't blame the police or try to prevent them doing it again, and besides he really shouldn't have ran...", then?

"However horrific the bombings in London on 7th July and however important it is to secure the safety of the public, there can be no excuse for the police adopting a shoot to kill policy which guns down innocent people in cold blood."

i mean are they fucking kidding? 'in cold blood'?

Read over someone's shoulders that one of the failed bombers thought he was going to get 80 virgins in paradise. Yeah, right, who does he think he is, fucking Magnum?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4720027.stm

Apparently, if it is him and he cooperates with the police, he'll get a "discount" on his virgins.

no, sociah, you are the first person ever to note the ironing there!