HEALTHCARE THREAD

I think the argument wrt that is that HMO's add an extra level of administrative costs/waste?

also, plz note guys that i'm totally open on this issue at the moment. like, something's definitely wrong, but i'm not entirely sure what the solution is here in the US

xp totally, jessie: while patients should absolutely have a say in how they're cared for, they really shouldn't be telling docs they NEED to have $DRUGSEENONTV

an argument I've heard for single-payer in the US is the drastic reduction in administrative bullshit. there'd simply be one bill that the patient would never see, and entire billing depts would no longer be necessary

I don't think I'd have the guts to ask a doctor for a specific drug (but maybe that's because the drugs I'd ask for fall into the possible-fun category).

I have an aunt who always conveniently "has" whatever disease is currently being pushed by big pharma.

the flipside is: you now have one entity that decides how much every checkup, procedure, and so on, is worth. if the gov't decides that a Whipple is now worth $200, then that's how much it'll cost, period.

gr8080: exactly. ppl in America have come to expect the very best healthcare in the world (in the cutting-edge, pulling-out-all-the-stops sense), and suddenly making that free to everyone would cost serious $$$$

yeah but even if the system stays where it is it could still destroy the economy.

meaning: we as a society will need to make some hard decisions in the next decade or two as to how long we choose to keep people alive.

but then its only another generation or two before the results of the human genome project wipe the slate clean and we all look like uma thurman and ethan hawke in gattica, right?

pharma and insurance lobbies are honestly too big to expect much of anything to change w/r/t those things in particular. any universal healthcare is going to involve a low-cost basic coverage through a private insurer.

like Julianne Moore and Clive Owen in Children of Men, more like

pharma R+D should be separated from the manufacturing and marketing side. license formulas out to various companies and make guaranteed money while they compete to push their brand at the lowest cost. the end.

i'm baffled that there hasn't been a huge geeky push for open-source EMRs yet (that i know of). if EMRs get locked into proprietary software, then we're really fucked, esp if different groups/hospitals use different systems. like, what'd be the fucking point

I don't know what you Americans are getting so worked up over:

Some U.S. hospitals offer gifts for long emergency-room waits

I mean, check it. You might have an aneurysm in your artery, but dude, FREE TIGERS TICKETS.

isn't that what the generic system is for? and wouldn't it require an overhaul of patenting? xxpost to tombot

and BTW we could chuck all the life-support systems in the ocean and let boomers all just get old and die but the economy's going to be destroyed anyway by a little thing called the dependency ratio (ESPECIALLY if we implement tax-supported single payer)

isn't that what the generic system is for?

Doesn't it take like 6-7 years for a drug to become generic?

yes, due to patent laws.

I think. Some kind of fancy law.

and they're working on overhauling the patent system as we speak, but for techno stuff, i think it passed the house?

from what i understand, the wait is 7 years for generics. however, SNEAKY DRUG COMPANIES have figured out that if they REPURPOSE a drug for a different, possibly made-up disorder, then they get another 7 years

jessie: no. patents are patents. the R+D labs would make money up front for licensing implementations to big manufacturing contractors. probably another company would pay the contractor and label/market the pills as they come off the line. it's just like 21st century modern business, instead of 19th century business.

that is, if you figure out that ritalin is not only good for adhd but also wandering gaze syndrome, then you can hold onto that ritalin patent

On my current plan I've had several occasions I've waited over an hour for the most cursory of 5-minute appointments. I never had anything like this with my NHS doctor.

Only two days after coming back from a joint replacement surgery I had my insurance company calling me to question whether the last day I spent in hospital was really necessary. Just previous to this they had confirmed that the hospital and the surgeon were covered by my plan, but that they could not guarantee that the anesthesiologist or anyone else who took care of me during my hospital stay would be covered as they didn't know who they would be. To quote Wendell Pierce in When The Levees Broke, there is a special circle of hell reserved just for insurance companies.

e.g. snorg pills

however, SNEAKY DRUG COMPANIES have figured out that if they REPURPOSE a drug for a different, possibly made-up disorder, then they get another 7 years

Yep, they tweak one or two things and EUREKA

Just previous to this they had confirmed that the hospital and the surgeon were covered by my plan, but that they could not guarantee that the anesthesiologist or anyone else who took care of me during my hospital stay would be covered as they didn't know who they would be.

this is the worst---I got nailed in a similar way when it turned out that the ER doc that treated me belonged to a private group that did not accept my insurance, so i paid 50% of his bill out of pocket, while my insurance covered 80% of everything else (after hueg deductible)

i'm not even sure they have to tweak anything :-/

just need to show that it can be used for a different illness. good thing the treaty of versailles came along, or else we'd all still be paying out the nose for bayer

wait snorg pills sound kind of good. do they help clear up allergy related sniffling?

no they give you big boobies tho

Btw, much of big pharma R&D piggybacks on publicly funded university research.

it's all stupid and based on business models that are centuries old! back when people died at 55, they couldn't bring you back, and every man got a stiffy in his trousers whenever he wanted! back when children were allowed to play outside because they ate eggs for breakfast every day and were essentially bulletproof! now we're all sick all the time and everyone has a soft pecker and a glass jaw and our water is so dangerous we have to bottle it up to keep it from getting on our hands!

i could go for some scrambled eggs

we take too many antibiotics in this country

I'm sick of this thread because it's just reminding me that nobody's going to fix shit until it's time for the fucking BOOMERS to decide that WE have to eat shit and pay for their fucking drugs! fuck them! fuck'em fuck'em fuck!! fuck shit FUCK YOU OLD PEOPLE fuck fuck ass fuck shit!

i just ate 2 soft boiled eggs

we take too many antibiotics in this country

-- river wolf, Monday, June 18, 2007 9:18 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

i've been on cipro like 3 times this year already

TOMBOT 2012: DNRs for all you fuckers

i don't have any answers (or any real gripes for that matter that haven't been covered in this thread) but I often work in a peripheral capacity with a big pharmaceutical co. and I can say without any reservation they are utter dicks. I know, I know YR MIND IS BLOWN.

i just recieved some spam w/ the subject line:

a treat for your weiner

i'm not saying YOU, bell labs, but pretty sure there's evidence that antibiotics are prescribed a bit too often

fun fact: cipro inhibits bacterial topoisomerase! try alleviating the overwinding strain on yr DNA NOW, bacteria!

i was talking to a buddy of mine about a hospital-based system the other day...like, could it be possible to buy healthcare "subscriptions" from yr friendly neighborhood hospital? or would they simply be unable/unwilling to assume the risk that insurance companies take on so happily? also: your insurance premiums don't pay for hospitals, they pay for air-conditioned high rises and CEO salaries and so on. obvious, i know, but the disconnect there is sort of crazy to me.

i am definitely on anti-biotics too often, and would love to do something about this, but i would be much less alive than i am now if i had decided to try to cut back.

then don't! i think it might be more of a pediatric issue anyway -- kids are generally in pretty rude health, and good at bouncing back from stuff. let 'em get sick, i say.

I seriously think if hospital networks would be turned into something run like a regional utility, with built-in capacities based on your historical peaks and valleys and demographic projections, you'd find that the staffing and equipment would all of a sudden be a lot more affordable in every regard. and yeah it would basically work like a subscription or a power line - welcome to the neighborhood! here's the numbers for phone, gas, electric and medicine! - all in your little change of address package from the USPS.

I mean seriously the "risks" insurance companies claim to be taking are a lot of horseshit anyway if you realize the surgeons, the expensive equipment, etc. is all there ready to work ANYWAY, it's part of a constantly operating/depreciating system, not like they have to conjure up a new surgeon and lease the room for every single tumor

OTOH I'm kind of describing how kaiser permanente works and they ain't exactly cheap though they will see you and get you fixed up lickety-split in my limited experience, plus co-pay is dinky

I seriously think if hospital networks would be turned into something run like a regional utility, with built-in capacities based on your historical peaks and valleys and demographic projections, you'd find that the staffing and equipment would all of a sudden be a lot more affordable in every regard. and yeah it would basically work like a subscription or a power line - welcome to the neighborhood! here's the numbers for phone, gas, electric and medicine! - all in your little change of address package from the USPS.

-- TOMBOT, Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i think this is an excellent idea, in theory. because yeah: surgery is expensive because surgeons have 12 yrs of school/residency to pay off, operating theaters are expensive, support staff is numerous, instruments/ultrasounds/etc. BUT this is all sunk cost, and once its in place, its in place

i'm baffled that there hasn't been a huge geeky push for open-source EMRs yet (that i know of). if EMRs get locked into proprietary software, then we're really fucked, esp if different groups/hospitals use different systems. like, what'd be the fucking point

Yeah, um, I don't really see things getting away from proprietary software. Basically in a few years I think all the big hospitals will have decided on and implemented an EMR from one of a few large companies, and the trick will be getting those to exchange clinical information nicely. There's not a lot of trust though, even getting different hospitals who use the same EMR to share info is not easy.

(I shouldn't really be talking about this anymore)

TOMBOT let's start neighborhood hospitals

xp what's irritating is that the military has already developed a free, open-source EMR that, while not perfect, is just waiting for some industrious geeks to turn it into something

o rly?