― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link
I don't think it's actively racist in any way. I think it tries hard, in fact, to be progressive -- antiracist. But I have qualms about the ways it goes about this. While I think the show's aims are noble, I think it ends up sweeping the real face of racism under the rug. And for a show that attempts to present a semi-gritty, humane, morally honest view of life in suburban Texas, I think that's a mistake, though a small, harmless one.
I understand that you don't see it this way, and I have no problem with that.
But Idiocracy is another matter. Here, I think Judge isn't really in control of his feelings/ideas about the intersection of race, class and intellect. And I think he ends up shooting himself in the foot. Made it hard for me to enjoy the movie. Why, for instance, do so many white people in the film have Hispanic names? What's the point?
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link
Oh, and strike every instance of the phrase "I think" in ppg 2 of my last post. It'll reduce the impression of moronism by at least 10%.
And out (again).
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link
uh cuz they're actually Hispanic (ie, part of the currently largest and fastest growing ethnic group in the US)?
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Honestly, given that the film rather clumsily and literally maps out how the future became populated by the profoundly stupid with no mention of race/ethnicity, it didn't even occur to me.
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link
But the moron-future in this film looked, felt and sounded an awful lot like Tijuana/East LA.
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― blotter Budweiser Hackeysadk (nickalicious), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― blotter Budweiser Hackeysadk (nickalicious), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:37 (seventeen years ago) link
***
Now, you look at a film full of outlandishly stereotypical depictions of moronic Hispanics, where half the seemingly white morons have Hispanic last names, set in a bombed-out, stereotypically third-world wasteland with a suspicious resemblance to certain Mexican/American border towns ... and you don't see even the slightest hint of passive, unconscious racism.
That's fine. I can accept that. But I don't understand why we can't have a civil discussion (hell, even a civil disagreement) about it.
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link
I've been to Tijuana and didn't see a specific resemblance. I mean mountains of trash look the same all over, whether they be in Calcutta or Botswana or Mexico City. The name thing I honestly took no notice of beyond it being a "in the future miscegenation will be common" kind of aside.
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link
Yeah, but that brings up something else. Are Calcutta, Botswana and Mexico City in the state they're in due to the fact that their inhabitants are all morons? I mean, what's the implication?
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Lukewarm Watery G. Tornado Is Sicker Than You (The GZeus), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Wednesday, 31 January 2007 23:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Thursday, 1 February 2007 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link
OTM!
i really, really, really hope there's a director's cut of this (sans fox's apparent meddling with the ending and so on) someday. twenty years from now, maybe, whenever judge gets around to it. i thought it was funny but it could've been much better.
― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Thursday, 1 February 2007 02:44 (seventeen years ago) link
it was just about perfect for dvd where i did a good deal of fast-fowarding through nothing sequences.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 1 February 2007 03:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 1 February 2007 04:06 (seventeen years ago) link
Way off topic, but Steven Pinker disagrees.
― Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Thursday, 1 February 2007 06:40 (seventeen years ago) link
Come on, man. You're deliberately distorting what I said, apparently just so you can LYAO at some stupidized version of the world (irony alert). Idiocracy is full of Hispanic characters and white characters with Hispanic names. In the movie's future, nearly half of America seems to be Hispanic.
Is that unreasonable in and of itself? No. But it's about the only social extrapolation the film makes, other than exaggerating the general idiocy level of everything.
Why go so far out your way to show that "in the future, miscegenation will be common," (as Shakey put it), when the only real point you're making about that future is that it's populated exclusively by total morons? Morons miscegenate? Is that it? The idea that morons overbreed is stated clearly near the beginning of the film, and the point gets rammed home again at the end. So isn't it possibly even just a little troubling that the film also postulates an America that has become a largely Hispanic nation?
Again, if you don't see it, that's fine. I'm not calling this a hate-movie or saying that you're wrong to enjoy it. But a few of its premises and implications did bother me.
We return you to your regularly scheduled LMAOs, currently in progress...
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link
YES.
I'm glad I haven't mailed this one back yet, I get the feeling it might be funnier the 2nd time.
― blotter Budweiser Hackeysadk (nickalicious), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 1 February 2007 15:35 (seventeen years ago) link
According to IMDB, the only characters with names at all are Joe, Rita, Frito, Upgrayedd, Sgt. Keller, Judge Hank "The Hangman" BMW, Officer Collins, President Camacho, and Beef Supreme.
I guess you could make an argument that 'Frito' is a Hispanic name, but I sure wouldn't.
― J (Jay), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― J (Jay), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― blotter Budweiser Hackeysadk (nickalicious), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― kingfishy (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 1 February 2007 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 February 2007 17:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 1 February 2007 17:08 (seventeen years ago) link
That's more-or-less EXACTLY what I've been saying since the start of this whole ugly mess ("...signifiers of non-white race, lower-class poverty and stupidity-to-the-point-of-retardation are all mixed together, as though they were essentially the same thing. Didn't kill the movie for me..., but I found it more than a little off-putting").
Now, I thought the film was a bit more callous in its treatement of Hispanics than the rest of you did. Fine, I'm alone in that. But what Zwan just said has been my main point all along.
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 1 February 2007 17:34 (seventeen years ago) link
Not to be a dick, but honestly, have you ever been to East L.A.? Either that, or have you ever watched the movie 'Idiocracy'?
Not to jump into the gangbang-already-in-progress on you, The New Sincerity, but you have really failed to present a single piece of compelling evidence that this film even flirts with racism. Your suggestion that the characters all have Hispanic names seems really shaky (I don't remember this from the film at all, but haven't seen it since the theater so can't be sure); while your trotting out that the 'room full of Hispanic people' that you watched it with didn't laugh (therefore = racism is afoot) is borderline horrifying.
― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Thursday, 1 February 2007 17:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Thursday, 1 February 2007 17:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Thursday, 1 February 2007 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link
I've been to east L.A. And more to the point, I've been to Tijuana.
What I "trotted out" was a soft-pedalled version of the fact that the Hispanic folks I watched it with thought it was actively, distastefully racist. And they're not the type to get too uptight about stuff like that. I, on the other hand, am willing to cut Mike Judge a bit more slack because I like his other work and respect his intentions.
The characters don't all have Hispanic names. But a whole bunch of them do. If you missed the fact that the movie is presenting us with a LOT of Hispanics and Hispanic names in its dumb-as-dirt America-of-the-future, then I dunno how to help you. Watch it again; I think you may be surprised.
What I'm arguing is that the film can be seen as implying a number of things about relationship between race, class, poverty, ignorance, and stupidity. And that some of them might be a little troubling.
And Elmo:
Touché.
― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 1 February 2007 21:44 (seventeen years ago) link