defend the indefensible: sylvia plath

i mean, do you know who the best-selling poets of our times are? Mattie J Stepanek (that sickly child who writes poems about heaven), Billy Collins, and Mary Oliver. while a child can be forgiven for crimes against all that is good in poetry, the latter two are totally indefensible, imo.

(that is awesome, bnw)

Jorie Graham's verse consists _________ of _______ lots of -------- blanks.

I do own and enjoy The End of Beauty.

if you're one of those people who aren't into the play of white space on the page, alfred, i don't think we can be friends.

her book "Swarm" is my favorite, highly recommended to all.

those berryman poems are awesome--i've never looked at him

In shorter form, why can't we enjoy and engage with something on its own terms, and leave it at that?

― Lostandfound, Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:54 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

ppl best understand things in their relations to other things; when the tyranny of coincidence has a wife w/a tragic story marry a feted poet, it's hard to resist engaging tht way but I get yr point

if you're one of those people who aren't into the play of white space on the page, alfred, i don't think we can be friends.

Well, you DO love Lowell. Sabers out.

how is matthea harvey regarded by you dudes?

who are your favourite modern poets, table is a table?

i mean, do you know who the best-selling poets of our times are?

Thing is, most people have no clue. Do we want to compare Billy Collins sales to Dan Brown?

Both Collins and Mary Oliver are easily defensible imo. I'd much rather have people reading them then not reading poetry at all. Hate the work, don't hate the sales. p.s. you forgot Jewel.

:)

Contemporary poets....

More lyric stuff: Kazim Ali, Martha Collins, Anne Carson.

More out-there stuff: Lisa Robertson, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Elizabeth Robinson, Laura Mullen, Eileen Myles, Kim Rosenfield, Jill Magi, Kevin Davies.

More conceptual stuff: Christian Bok, Kenny Goldsmith, Vanessa Place.

i could go on and on. i'm a bookworm.

pls do; are those all american?

lol britishes

some Canadians here and there...

now i'll just list:
Bruce Andrews, Kevin k*ll*an, Jessica Grim, Jena Osman, Kathleen Fraser, Nathaniel Mackey, Kamau Brathwaite, Jacques Roubaud, Lytton Smith, E. Tracey Grinnell, Stan Apps, Juliana Spahr, Jared Stanley, Peter Culley, Ben Lerner's first book, Mark Wunderlich's first book, Dennis Cooper's older stuff......

and of course, a lot of young poets who don't have much out yet except chapbooks.

don't give us it, bnw

thx, ttitt

the cool thing about poets is if you can google their email address (usually at a school) they'll respond 97.83% of the time.

some living American poets I like:

Rae Armantrout (probably my fave), Aaron Kunin, Claudia Rankine, Charles Simic, Ashbery (duh)

I am pals with, and hence biased about:

Mon1ca Youn, St3ve Burt, Mark Wunderl1ch

i love Rae's older stuff, and saw Aaron give a fucking amazing reading a couple weeks back....

ppl best understand things in their relations to other things; when the tyranny of coincidence has a wife w/a tragic story marry a feted poet, it's hard to resist engaging tht way but I get yr point

Yeah, I don't want to overstate that point, and I'm not uninterested in their unique backstory, it's just that (as with JD and NO) I've largely given up trying to decide which one is better.

thinking maybe a separate thread to post poems we like, talk baout poetry, stuff like that?

so this thread can go back to hatin' on/stanning for/zinging in the vicinity of plath?

maybe this one?

Poetry Corner

More lyric stuff: Kazim Ali, Martha Collins, Anne Carson.

I saw Kazim Ali read here and he has a marvelously kooky reading voice. Also I corrected the math in one of his poems.

I am pals with, and hence biased about:

Mon1ca Youn, St3ve Burt, Mark Wunderl1ch

Wait, all these people are my pals too and one was best man at my wedding. Who are you?

argh crap THIS ONE

Contemporary Poetry

Who are you?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:45 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

his name rhymes with "jew janiel"
― fleetwood (max), Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:35 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

oh hey there true manuel
― Miss Fitzhenry (s1ocki), Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:45 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

new spaniel
― cutty, Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:50 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

blue granual, of popular beat combo thermos
― Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:57 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ha ha, who knew. squirrel, i am Monica's math friend whose first name rhymes with "lizzie borden."

There are also:

The Poetry Thread
Poetry Thread, part two: A Game Of Chess

xpost to eephus

Hey there you- didn't we meet up quite randomly at the MSRI dedication thang?

indeed!

hi, honey, no one cares!

irl, i don't think i know a single poet who enjoys thinking about or reading Sylvia Plath at this point in time. same with ginsberg.

who gives a shit?

for the record there's a bad sentence above - I don't consider Plath greater than Berryman or Lowell, "other lesser confessionals" meant "confessionals you can name besides these ones" e.g. Sexton

Snodgrass quite underrated these days

Berryman (the only one of the aforementioned that I know well) is all-time for me. I had to stop reading Dream Songs last year cuz I was at a really bad place in my life and the darkness in them was starting to get suffocating... but I recently picked it up again and I'm glad I did

first dream song is still my fav & one of v.few poems burned into my memory probably forever; but #29 (posted upthread) is one of my favs too

I have this constitutional aversion to the confessional, even after giving Lowell a genuine try after that 2003 collected poems got published. I'd rather read Merrill, Bishop, O'Hara, and Ashbery.

eh, different strokes; I like most of the names you just mentioned but Berryman's style is so electrifying I don't even pay attention to what he's "confessing" half the time

wish I could say more on the actual topic of this thread but I haven't read Plath since I was assigned to do a project on her in high school. I don't recall enjoying it very much (though I suspect I was a pretty bad reader/she went over my head most of the time), and I always think I ought to give her another chance, but there's always something else I wanna buy instead... *shrug*

They've all written poems I love though. The concision of and enjambments in "Near the Ocean" are breathtaking, and Plath's highwire act of imperiousness and vulgarity is unequaled; her strangeness eludes much of her collegiate claque.

calling berryman confessional is selling him short

otoh the same is true of plath and probably also of everyone called 'confessional' ever

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2013/jun/05/sylvia-plath-rage-laughter/

I posted this on the LRB thread. It's compelling, but...

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n24/joanna-biggs/im-an-intelligence

re-reading Bell Jar and i think i will always stan for Plath

i dont know if i’ll articulate this the way i think of it but in her poetry and the bell jar there’s something i love about the way her direct, vivid-yet-blunt (& often grotesque) descriptions are presented so unapologetically in very refined, calm settings and she never belabors them or refers back to them, she just lets them, sit, & moves on


she’s not drawing attention to a “gloomy” mindset, or indicating it with any kind of moody gothy setup. like rooms and places and landscapes are always pleasant or inoffensive — she really captures the way weird or ugly thoughts and similes just land & fly away in one’s thoughts without necessarily being shown outwardly?

idk if that makes sense but anyway i love her

i recently read part of the recent Heather Clark “Red Comet” bio of plath and while i annoyingly didn’t get to finish before i had to return it, it is so impressively comprehensive and human and demythologizing, i am going to reborrow & finish it

i highly recommend

I read The Bell Jar in February 20121 and whooped at every other sentence -- a hilarious, scary novel.

I recommend the book published last year about Plath and Sexton meeting for martinis at the Ritz.

xp great post

also i never knew ~insulin~ shock therapy was a thing until rereading bell jar this time

horrifying https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_shock_therapy

Out of the ash
I rise with my red hair
And I eat men like air.

omg at this thread's early exchanges

the bell jar is monumental, her poetry...i've not encountered anything that isn't great