HIS DARK MATERIALS

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actually i think a withdrawn god is both kabbalism AND gnosticism, but they cope differently. I forget. Someone help me decode this all.

My thoughts on finishing amber spyglass by the way is that it is a perfectly english ending, and therefore crap. Down with catholicism up with anglicanism (same structure without as many rigid sexual hangups) and meanwhile growing up means getting over adventure and becoming a boring scholar.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Epicurus (342 - 271 BC) taught that the Olympian gods had withdrawn to the outer Empyrean and no longer concerned themselves with humans, so the core idea (without the monotheism) certainly predates the kaballah.

― Aimless, Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I may have dreamed this thread. It involves Tom going on a geeky excursion about the metatron and a withdrawn god.

That reminds me of the thread I keep thinking I imagined, where mark s came up with an intriguing new concept of history and time.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 7 September 2003 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

I loved the first two... not sure about the last one. I've read 3/4 of it and it seems bloated and less convincing than the other two.

http://www.spikemagazine.com/0602amberspyglass.htm

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"A pint-sized pocket volume, Lyra's Oxford packages together a short story set in the same universe as his famous trilogy, a fold-out map of the alternate-reality city of Oxford which Lyra and her daemon Pantalaimon inhabit, a short brochure for a cruise to The Levant aboard the SS Zenobia and a postcard from the inventor of the amber spyglass, Mary Malone."

Great. Philip Pullman appears to have turned into Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour = Terry Pratchett

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone going to see the big christmas play at the national?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

That explorer chap who did The Big Read the other week... HDM is good, but not as mindblowingly great as he was making out. Still, nice to see the church getting such a good, sustained kicking.

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Catholics protesting about the oppression by religion = fair enough if frequently depressingly ignorant about the religion that's been forced down their throats.

Church of Englanders protesting about the oppression by religion = just fucking pathetic, to be honest.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed - YES. But probably not till Jan. Trying to persuade C that we should do the full-on 6-hour blowout - ie both plays in succession.

― Sam (chirombo), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Church of Englanders protesting about the oppression by religion = just fucking pathetic, to be honest.

Why? Religions have oppressed and manipulated people all over the planet. Isn't that enough to be indignant about?

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Just finished the trilogy this morning. The third book meandered a bit, but I thought Pullman's writing was better in the last 100 pages than it was anywhere in the trilogy.

The armoured polar bears reminded me of myself when I've been drinking.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Still, nice to see the church getting such a good, sustained kicking.

Most boring statement ever. "The imagination behind the setting and the plot-turns and the characterization didn't really mean much, but WHOO IT WASN'T NICE TO RELIGION!"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

This series should be renamed. I want to see a series called ":HIS DARK MEATBALLS" (what I misread it as.)

― sucka (sucka), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

If anyone wants to make an outing of the 6 hour blowout I'd be up for it.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Lyra and Will are played by twenty something actors in the theatre production. In the book she's twelve. This might start emotions which I'm not too comfortable with!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

it's in the best traditions of christmas theater though.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

that bit where they play with each other's weasels at the end is filthy quease making teenage finger sex filthy.
also the last book is crap.
the second was only OK.
i think he should have left it after the first one

― bob snoom, Saturday, 8 November 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

http://theonering.net had this little summary of news today:

Yesterday, industry insiders leaked news that Tom Stoppard's script for "The Golden Compass" had been "junked," and director Chris Weitz ["About a Boy"] was tipped to take over on the writing. Industry sources described him as a "huge dork-level fan of the books [who] wants to do them justice." He's won praise for his understanding and direction of the boy character in "About a Boy." The ability to write convincingly about teenagers would be an advantage in "The Golden Compass."

Yes, the director of a Nick Hornby novel adaptation is all revved up for His Dark Materials. Oh dear.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

At least it isn't Nick Hornby adapting it. Not that Chris Weitz is likely to be much better, but you know what I mean...

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

You have a point indeed, but EW the image in my mind about that possibility. Polar bears trying to insist that if we'd only all listen to Broooce nonstop then God would come back...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you're reading waaay too much into how much influence a director has over content in an studio-driven adaptation -- his important job here is to hit the basics and work with the cast, so presumably they got him because he can work with kids. (We didn't have adolescent sex in Harry Potter, either.)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

This is true, Tep, and yet. (As it is, what annoys/surprises me most is the junking of Stoppard's take on it, because I think that would have been brilliant!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that's a really weird thing, and makes me wonder what on Earth they didn't like about it. (I mean, I haven't read it, but still! Ditching it altogether instead of asking for a rewrite? It's Tom Stoppard!)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

didnt haev weitz something to do with american pie as well? maybe the maekrs of shoddy comedy are the doers of good of the future. like the splatterists of yesteryeear making the blockbusters of today. or something.

― :|, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

chris weitz is an uncredited director on American Pie (the first film), and a producer of the second two (meaning, he made money off them), but the only film of note he's directed is About a Boy, which is still one of my favorite films of the past few years, mainly because it does deal with characters (particularly the kid) so well. They could have done worse and gotten Chris Columbus or something.

Stoppard seems to have bad luck with screenplays, didn't he write Baron Munchausen and have all of his stuff rewritten? Maybe he's not a good screenwriter.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

oh never mind that, it was Brazil he worked on. I'm not sure what of his stuff was used and what wasn't. And I forgot he wrote Shakespeare in Love.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, I don't know why they're bothering. They're all far too long to be movies, aren't they? I envisaged a hugely-expensive but kind of naff and endearing television serialisation as being the ideal.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

shakespeare in love had another credit! he hasn't worked on ANY not-rewritten-afterwards movie!

― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Except Rosencrantz, for obvious reasons.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

(nb. possibly wrong.)

(they would all work very well as very good 150-minutes-ish movies but as average or possibly just QUITE good 150 minutes movies they might be really bad.

― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

)

(um xpost.)

― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

WE CANNOT LET THESE BOOKS BE DILUTED BY THE FANDOMS THAT WILL ARISE AFTER THE FILMS ARE RELEASED!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BE ON GUARD FOR ANY SLASH/FIC WRITERS!

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It's probably already happened.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I fear someone's already on it -- read the second paragraph.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

At this point, slash is such a Thing that people will write it just to be the first to do so, or buy a book/watch a movie/watch a series just to be able to slash it. Nothing is safe.

(I have a friend who's become fascinated by the slash community rather than by slash itself.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, it hurts! Why? Why must that take that which I love and make it all yeasty? I have become so intolerant when it comes to Slash. I came across some Sherlock Holmes & Watson slash the other day. I'm still twitching.

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

You are the preacher, Fr Michael, and I the choir. Sometimes the only thing keeping me from thinking that fans are the ones who appreciate a thing the least is remembering that Ned is a LOTR fan and is a perfectly normal guy. (Unless he wouldn't describe himself as a fan, in which case NOTHING STOPS ME NOW.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, fear not -- a fan and an admitted one since very early on. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

See, there we go! So it's just bad apples, not the bunch.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 02:03 (twenty-one years ago)

First two books are dazzling. The third one is just shite, just horrible, I could not believe it.

― Pingu, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 03:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i could not finish it. tell me how it ends.

― gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ah, I don't know why they're bothering. They're all far too long to be movies, aren't they? I envisaged a hugely-expensive but kind of naff and endearing television serialisation as being the ideal."

Kinda like the Tripods when I was a kid. I remember loving that when I was younger, as I remember they televised the first two books of the trilogy, left with a massive cliffhanger and never produced the final series.

― Davel (Davel), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 06:23 (twenty-one years ago)

THE TRIPODS wow! I hadn't thought about that series in years, and then last week I started thinking about it and wishing I could reread it AT THAT SECOND.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf is 'slash'?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I expect Tom Stoppard was taken off the project because, for whatever reason, the producers didn't feel he was capturing the right style, using the right approach, or whatever. You can't tell someone like Stoppard that his work is way off and that you want him to junk what he's written and start again.

Also, artists of this kind are also extremely aware of their own failings. More often than not, if they don't think they're writing their best, then they'll often quit rather than produce something they're not happy with. He can certainly afford to quit.

Thirdly, it's possible that he was attached principally as a draw to financiers and partners.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

**I envisaged a hugely-expensive but kind of naff and endearing television serialisation as being the ideal**

This would be a great idea - in the vein of 'The Box Of Delights'. The stage play was very good btw - skipped out the wheelies/Mary Malone, which I thought really diluted the pace of the books towards the end. And the witches rocked - esp. Ruta Skadi.

― Mog, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"slash" = erotic fiction starring (usually same sex) established characters from successful fiction series or celebrities.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah the box of delights, I loved that when I was a kid, is it just me or have they stopped making things like that for tv now?

― Davel (Davel), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

They have... and that's why I'd love to see something similar done for the HDM trilogy. You could slice it any way you like. Rather than doing three nearly three hour movies, you could have, say, eighteen half hour-episodes. Or 22, as that's the usual number for a series now, isn't it?

― edward o (edwardo), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

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