The Rule Of Three: Its Mike Leigh

Pete may be right that he is as good as his actors, in that he does allow them a lot of freedom, and they develop the script in improvisation with him, which gives them a much greater weight in the outcome than usual.

Peter Bradshaw in today's Guardian is fairly dismissive of the 'caricature' allegations, for what it's worth. He doesn't address the other major regular criticism, of being 'patronising', except implicitly rejecting it while addressing the first.

He co-wrote 'Baddiel's Syndrome' -> it is worth nothing.

I though Topsy Turvy was great after all and thinkl that sometimes it might be interesting if Leigh lifted himself out of the "gutter" to stretch his range a touch.

Sarah kept falling asleep and then waking up and saying "is anything happening yet?". Apparently I was laughing all the way through, though I don't remember.

Okay, well I'll watch it when I'm on my own then.

And Alfred Molina!!

"Vera Drake", incidentally, is amazing and worth seeing whoever you are.

did someone see "happy go lucky"?
should i stay or should i go?

I saw it a couple of weeks back.

It stuck in my mind for a bit - mainly because of the acting skills, especially Eddie Marsan as the Driving Instructor.

it's a bit grating but its heart is in the right place.

I don't take what Mike Leigh says at face value about Poppy being a happy character we ought to admire.

To me, she's yet another of his characters that's got trapped in a certain way of speaking and acting and the film is kind of about that.

I did find the (pre-bonk) pub scene with the social worker completely cringe-inducing.

the critics generally loved the movie, but the users comments in the "time out" review shows most people mainly hated it.

http://www.timeout.com/film/reviews/85152/happy-go-lucky.html?cpage=1&ccat=11#top_comments_main

a paradox, so to speak

not for the first time,of course, but the first for a Leigh movie.

I agree with 'Harriet':

...I'd describe myself as a Mike Leigh fan but this movie, from the story (or lack of one) to the two dimensional characters (in some cases one dimensional), and the unrealistic dialogue and acting seemed by turns tediously shallow and surprisingly irritating. I initially tolerated Poppy's exaggerated, monotone chirpiness because I guessed that there lay something behind it, an event or neurosis from her past that it was a reaction to, which would be revealed and form the basis of the story and bring the film and Poppy to life but that was not to be....

i liked 'naked' a lot when i saw it, 'meantime' almost as much. haven't seen anything else.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ECTR9Q7QL.jpg

'everyone just say what you think'

i thought this was phenomenal! anyone who says poppy's chirpiness was unrealistic just hasn't met people like her - they really exist and yes they are trapped in it, to an extent, which you get glimpses of (for instance, when her co-worker's talking over a glass of wine about her daughter getting dumped - poppy is just incapable of summoning the sypathetic gravitas needed for these sorts of situations)

i thought it was a film about teaching - there was a dialectic between the methods of driving instructor, poppy, and the flamenco teacher - and even poppy's pregnant sister has a (very ineffective) style of "teaching"

I think the haters are too hung up on having poppy "explained" as if her happiness is some sort of psychosis or something. I though her character was laudable and the movie itself was swell.

the scene with the social worker and poppy and her friend and the kid in the classroom just broke my heart for some reason - just seeing these three people actually being good to this kid and really trying - i feel like you never usually see moments like that in movies unless there's some ulterior motive, like the kid has information that will lead to the killer

^^OTM

Saw this a coupla months ago, thoroughly enjoyed it.

i loved this as well. what made poppy's buoyancy really special, i thought, was that it wasn't the usual kind - floating over everything, skating over difficulties - but instead it allowed her to actually settle in with troubled people and, as it were, sink into their pain, untangling it (not without risk) like a knot.

and i loved the bright colors, the kooky threads, and the bicycle (sigh).

yeah the opening bike-riding scene was great, would marry her.

This was quite good. I particularly liked how Leigh presents Poppy's effervescence with some ambivalence -- it's truly a multi-sided thing. On one hand, it allows her to occasionally be very charming, and you also sense that it's a useful self-preservation technique, that she never lets anything affect her too deeply. On the other, her refusal to be serious for even a second is sometimes infuriating. The driving instructor is clearly an asshole with a whole host of issues of his own, but I did frequently sympathize with his frustration with her. Similarly, there's something laudable about her goodwill and her effort to make friends with strangers wherever she goes (from shopkeepers to bums), but she doesn't seem to understand that people often don't want the same and that this isn't necessarily an act of refusal or rejection as much as a desire for compartmentalization.

I thought this movie was terrible. Like watching Katharine Tate do a David Brent impression for two hours.

I should have said Georgian, sorry.

I didn't think it was portraying Ruskin as a fool, just a bit of a self-sniffing windbag.

needs theater viewing fer chrissakes

― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Monday, January 5, 2015 4:33 AM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Absolutely. Finally saw this this weekend -- it's just now made it to our flyover screens. Really enjoyed it all the way through. Spall is so much fun to watch, getting multiple meanings out of every grunt and snort. No idea if that's anywhere close to the real Turner, but that doesn't matter, it works for the film's conception of him. And the way the landscapes and seascapes are shot not so much to look like his paintings as to suggest what he saw in them that he carried through to his paintings -- seeing the world through his eyes.

This and Topsy Turvy are my favorite Leigh films. He should do more period biopics! One thing I love is that he really tries to give the details of daily life in another time -- to the degree that it is disorienting at first, it feels like a somewhat alien place. Which is what it would do, of course. That's something a lot of period films don't even bother to try, they just give you modern people and mores in period dress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxEqqRa_Tn4

Y'all should watch Hard Truths!

Genuinely excited to see it, and I’m not a particular Leigh fan, even though Keith in Nuts in May was apparently based on my high school maths teacher. It’s not out here till the end of the month.

As ever, Mike Leigh somehow talks engagingly for an hour without really giving much away.

i know the ending of hard truths was intentionally open-ended to make you think about what could happen next but i'm enjoying thinking it's a setup for the big sequel harder truths

great movie btw. i'm not a mike leigh expert though i've seen a smattering of movies from the range of his career, but i agree that's weird to think that the guy who makes these small, incisive modern character studies also made "topsy turvy." i really need to see "mr. turner"

I didn't think of it as opened-ended as much as the door closing on Pansy's options, after escaping her present life became a possibility.

Loved seeing this, especially after our collective celebration of David Lynch. This is such the opposite of Lynch's work: no angles, line readings, moments of laughing at the characters from a distance; the opposite of a dream.

My favorite film of 2024. Feel like it's already in danger of being considered a "minor work" but then I think of how much I love Another Year and Happy Go Lucky and I guess they got the same treatment.

We got a discussion in the A Real Pain thread about Happy-Go-Lucky.

Ouch. I know personally that intergenerational trauma is a bitch, but that was grueling.

Mr. Turner is great. I actually need to go back and rewatch Topsy Turvy sometime because it didn't click with me as a college student who was into Leigh because of Secrets and Lies and Career Girls and Life is Sweet. But my enjoyment of Mr. Turner (and to a lesser extent Peterloo) make me think I'd like it better now.

I should see Naked again, having only seen it the week it opened. It was so much of its time, such a pure early-90s Gen X movie, and I only mostly remember the long scene after hours in the empty office building.

Something I loved about Hard Truths was that Pansy most of all reminded me of embittered male characters: Thewlis in Naked, Kingsley in Sexy Beast, Jack Nicholson in more things than not. I guess there have been supporting characters like Diane Weist and Judy Davis in Woody Allen movies, but I'm not sure I've seen a protagonist like that before.

We got a discussion in the A Real Pain thread about Happy-Go-Lucky.

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 20 January 2025 16:01 (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've seen so few Mike Leigh films. Only HGL and Another Year. But I would rank Happy Go Lucky as one of my favourite films of all time so it's no wonder I enjoyed A Real Pain, which (as has been discussed a little in that thread) has a good few parallels

Something I loved about Hard Truths was that Pansy most of all reminded me of embittered male characters: Thewlis in Naked, Kingsley in Sexy Beast, Jack Nicholson in more things than not. I guess there have been supporting characters like Diane Weist and Judy Davis in Woody Allen movies, but I'm not sure I've seen a protagonist like that before.

― braunschweiger winter (Eazy), Tuesday, January 21, 2025 9:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it's not really the same but tilda swinton in problemista is maybe the broader version of the character of pansy? didn't 100% love that movie but her performance is great

The Swinton character is a 'terrible boss,' kind of like Meryl Streep in The Devil Wears Prada. I just realized that Laurie Metcalf's mom in Lady Bird is a bit like Jean-Baptiste, as someone who sometimes winces at their own behavior but can't help but be themselves and be difficult.

Good comparison -- Metcalf also constitutionally unable to have a good time, seems to will bad tidings on herself and others.

At least Lady Bird proffers a clue: "My mother was an abusive alcoholic."

there's a few on Criterion right now, I watched High Hopes last night and enjoyed it a lot

Decent radio doc on BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002752j

an interesting take on Hard Truths: https://completeworks.substack.com/p/diagnosis-fiction

Amis' The Green Man is worth reading.

That feels like a lack of recognition and empathy on Butler's part. (Then again, I'm not a fan of his.) My mom was a whole lot like Pansy, but no one put a label on her (other than "bitch" or "difficult"). The character was too familiar for me to experience her with a diagnosis in mind.

Amis' The Green Man is worth reading

agreed, good book

xp we'll have to talk about Butler sometime

an interesting take on Hard Truths: https://completeworks.substack.com/p/diagnosis-fiction🕸

Although Eazy’s point is good too.

that was well-written and interesting but this: "Instead, I want a movie that, if it’s purporting to exist in the real world, at least has one mention ever that mental health care exists." there are millions of families where nobody ever mentions mental health care and never would. even if they thought of it they wouldn't mention it. i don't think its uncommon.

i haven't seen that movie though. it is easier to think about these things now when watching a movie. i imagine that if i ever watched a cassavetes movie now i would just be diagnosing and prescribing like crazy. but i certainly didn't do that when i first saw them. things change.
i do think that watching someone who is obviously in pain or in need of help and the movie ends and they are still in pain and still need help is kinda agonizing but also unfortunately true to life in a lot of people's cases.

more phony was the kirk douglas movie from 1953 i watched the other night where he is the tortured holocaust survivor who runs from the police in israel for the entire length of the movie and the last shot is him crying on his knees and being hugged by a beautiful woman while he cries "I need help!" it was an early cry for therapy. but it felt off somehow because the minute before he was holed up in a house with a rifle and screaming at the authorities. but the ending was what people were HOPING the ending would be. help for the traumatized camp survivor. and them not getting shot to death by the police.

if someone has never seen those play for today/bbc movies they really should. grown-ups. abigail's party.

got this from wiki:

In 2012, Leigh participated in that year's Sight & Sound film polls. Held every ten years to select the greatest films of all time, contemporary directors were asked to select ten films. Leigh named the following ten:

American Madness (USA, 1932)
Barry Lyndon (UK/USA, 1975)
The Emigrants (Sweden, 1970)
How a Mosquito Operates (USA, 1912)
I Am Cuba (Cuba, 1964)
Jules and Jim (France, 1962)
Radio Days (USA, 1987)
Songs from the Second Floor (Sweden, 2000)
Tokyo Story (Japan, 1953)
The Tree of Wooden Clogs (Italy, 1978)

Leigh participated again in the 2022 poll selecting the following ten films:

The 400 Blows (France, 1959)
Barry Lyndon (UK/USA, 1975)
The Death of Mr. Lazarescu (Romania, 2005)
The Gospel According to St. Matthew (Italy, 1964)
Here Is Your Life (Sweden, 1966)
How a Mosquito Operates (USA, 1912)
Loves of a Blonde (Czechoslovakia, 1965)
Some Like It Hot (USA, 1959)
Songs from the Second Floor (Sweden, 2000)
Tokyo Story (Japan, 1953)

also kirk douglas was a clown and you had to imagine a world where people would have sympathy for a clown.

i do think that watching someone who is obviously in pain or in need of help and the movie ends and they are still in pain and still need help is kinda agonizing but also unfortunately true to life in a lot of people's cases.

Just back from watching Hard Truths at the cinema, brilliant stuff, but so bleak, you can just feel the final glimmer of hope drain away in that last scene. I was watching with my wife and wow Pansy is just like her mother (a woman I've lived with for about 5 years) - though my father in law is far from meek and tacit, so the actual family dynamic is quite different.

I saw it yesterday and have been meaning to post. Also thought it was brilliant.

It's bleak and tragic, but also very funny indeed. The showing I was in the whole audience was laughing out loud uncontrollably many times, especially in the first half or so (in particular the dinner scene and the whole sofa shop/supermarket/dentist/doctor portion).

The cinema was full of old white people and they didn't really laugh at all, even heard one of them remark on it not being funny. but yeah, the whole furniture shop bit! we were laughing at least.

I've just seen it and didn't like it much at all.

I'm slightly shocked to read above that the audience was "laughing out loud uncontrollably many times" because this film is as bleak as it can be, and I thought it was like being stuck with someone who is suffering from a serious mental illness and being unable to help them.

Certainly the audience were not laughing in the showing I went to (I didn't study the audience demographic, but it was at the Brixton Ritzy).

With regards to demographic, I didn't study the audience either, but I'm in Glasgow and saw it at the GFT, at a relatively quiet showing.

I wholeheartedly agree that it was bleak (and tragic, as mentioned), but there was dark humour there as well for me. I felt that was intentional.

I thought it was his best film since Happy-Go-Lucky and basically left nothing on the table about what it’s like to have someone like this in the family. There are definitely moments that can seem funny to outsiders but when you’re around this every single goddamn day, it’s a whole different story, and this film nails it. Even the last act is perfect - you can have sympathy for what makes someone become this way, but it doesn’t change the fact they still act horrendously and incessantly inflict damage on everyone close to them, and yes, people have their limits and will eventually hate them for it.

that was well-written and interesting but this: "Instead, I want a movie that, if it’s purporting to exist in the real world, at least has one mention ever that mental health care exists." there are millions of families where nobody ever mentions mental health care and never would. even if they thought of it they wouldn't mention it. i don't think its uncommon.

Are we to assume that Isaac Butler is familiar with mental health care provision on the NHS in the UK?

Im team #Peterloo