U.S. Politics, November 2024: GARBAGE DAY!!

its crazy that repubs can promise stuff and never deliver and people's lives get worse and as a result people get angrier and then they just end up voting for more...repubs. because they are the party for pissed-off people. what a world we live in. and quite a racket they have going.

What flopson pointed to as the tension between inflation and unemployment is just one of the contradictions in our political economy that makes progressive policy difficult to enact. Improve one area and another one goes out of whack. As long as the profit motive is the engine of investment and economic growth it is hard to actually hard to take control of our own society. Some kowtowing to the investor class is probably necessary? Unless we can build a completely different kind of system.

I was historically really resistant to this idea and thought pro-worker policies could be done, it was only greed that allowed the erosion of strong welfare states in europe and america, bernie-ism could be achieved with enough political will. But now I think the problem is more difficult and structural and bigger than messaging. Perhaps voters intuitively grasp this and don’t even try to understand the real policy positions of the candidates. They vote on vibes or to troll

I will always vote for and support the leftmost democrats. This is my politics. I think if you work 40 hours a week you should not be living in poverty. If you can’t work for some reason, you still shouldn’t be living in poverty. And healthcare and housing are human rights.

But these are moral positions not pragmatic ones. What would have happened if bernie won and had a mandate? If he was able to do whatever he wanted? What roadblocks would he have faced, what unforseen consequences?

"They vote on vibes or to troll"

People were so distracted by their phone they didn't vote! That's it!!

Maybe they were wishcasting with a vote for trump, who after all was inspired long ago by norman vincent peale, this very american positive thinking bullshit.

It’s not very meaningful in any sense. Realistically trump will not help the working class.

At some point, as an American citizen, it's on you to understand how our system operates, within our country and the world.

― a (waterface), Friday, November 8, 2024 10:01 AM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I can barely wrap my head around that kind of stuff (e.g. "we've done well as an economy w/inflation vs other countries"). I mean, I CAN wrap my head around it, but the economic systems that dictate or describe how that is happening are pretty much inscrutable magic to me. Upbeat economic reports on the front page of the NYT do feel like gaslighting, and what I tell myself is "you don't understand this and I imagine it actually takes a long time to reinvigorate the economy after a downturn." But I have a steady job (not great pay, but decent benefits, and steady) and a lot of patience. I struggle with car repairs and dentist bills and shit, but I at least feel like there is an arc toward economic progress, even if we're dealing with more expensive hot dogs these days.

Just saying that most people don't have (some combination of) 1.)inclination 2.)intelligence/education 3.)time to figure out why hot dogs cost more. They just hope new guy fix it.

xp Trump'll make them feel better temporarily by enacting awful policies that directly hurt immigrants, minorities and women. that, he'll definitely follow through with

And he was saying idiotic things. He is going to reduce prices while imposing 20% tariffs on all imports? He is pro worker but admired Musk’s “strength” in dealing with unions? Venezuela is deliberately “sending” criminals and mentally ill people? I truly think he believes the word asylum has to do with insane asylums because he is illiterate.

because they are the party for pissed-off people

This is where Dems are wrong.

Dem voters are pissed-off, too. Everyone is pissed-off.

Sorry i was following up on my other point.

In 2016 many said trump voters were expressing economic pain. I think this can only be part of the story. And I also am unsure whether the democrats as currently constituted *can* rise the floor of living standards to a point where people would feel relief. That is my bigger questions. If the dems wanted to, could we institute real social democracy?

Dem voters are pissed-off, too. Everyone is pissed-off.

Kinda related to that, a little anecdata -- one of my regular podcast listens are Drag Race vets Willam and Alaska's Race Chaser episode-by-episode reviews; their side comments got so popular they set up a second weekly podcast called Hot Goss about anything and everything, including politics. Latest episode of that just dropped, recorded Wednesday morning, and they were of course not happy with the results. But in talking about good things here and there (Sarah McBride's election, etc) they mentioned the Prop 8 repeal in CA, with them being all "Well yeah, that's great, for the 1970s," and then Alaska going into a quick but vivid tear about the price of things, housing costs, etc. being more to the fore of her mind at present.

"Dem voters are pissed-off, too. Everyone is pissed-off."

nah, they are still way too hopeful. give them a few years.

we need our own version of the terrible "I Did That" sticker

there is absolutely some level of truth to the idea that americans’ understanding of the world around them is severely warped particularly in a way that can make it hard for democrats to convey their policy achievements to voters. i do not want to hand wave that away. BUT the democratic party cannot itself adopt this attitude because they are all paid to win elections. i say this not from a POV of idealism but from a POV of cynicism. they are participating in a contest where there are winners and losers. the objective is to win the contest. i will not argue that cutting thru conservative media propaganda is easy but the people in the democratic party who choose to take on the responsibility of winning elections do need to figure out how to do that. they need to blow up the structure that houses the structural problems. again i’m not saying this is easy but there are people getting paid lots of money to accomplish these tasks

So apparently black students in many public schools are receiving violently racist text messages and email. We just got a message from my kid’s school that it’s happening here too. Surely has something to do with what happened on Tuesday.

There was similar hateful flexing in the days after Trump’s first win.

yes there was and I immediately thought about it Tuesday night

this one's actually creepier though as it happened across like 25 states with people using burners and data-gathering phone numbers of black individuals

its crazy that repubs can promise stuff and never deliver and people's lives get worse and as a result people get angrier and then they just end up voting for more...repubs. because they are the party for pissed-off people. what a world we live in. and quite a racket they have going.

watching libs pushing the "15 million missing votes" conspiracy theory to the point where several news outlets had to publish a factcheck for it today, while not realizing that MAGA people are the ones egging this on because it helps them sew further doubt in the 2020 results and elections in general, is fairly annoying.

one friend I know started up w/ similar shit yesterday ("something stinks about these numbers, I don't buy it!"), but thankfully that's it.

― Kurt Dandruff (Neanderthal), Thursday, November 7, 2024 6:23 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Can you provide links to these fact checks? To paraphrase Ben Bradlee, we need to be especially careful with what we want to be true.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/nov/07/threads-posts/no-20-million-democratic-votes-didnt-disappear-and/

the votes disappeared because no one cast them

One thing that doesn’t get discussed in employment stats is whether the jobs are any good! Like how many of these jobs are shitty and exploitative and conditions are worse than they used to be? I think the people who voted for T are delusional in thinking that his administration would improve this, but I also think there’s truth in the feelings of malaise and desperation and wtf how much were groceries this month and the power bill has doubled and even if you wanted to move, could you afford it?

plus, i think if someone has three part-time jobs they count that as one job? lots of part-time jobs out there because employers don't want to have to pay full-time benefits/overtime/etc. it can be really hard to find a "good" full-time job in the u.s.

Scott otm … and then there’s the issue of benefits that basically result in net zero for families (mostly talking about women here) where the cost of child care makes it just as “beneficial” to work part time.

on trump's nyc gains: https://gothamist.com/news/as-donald-trump-made-gains-throughout-nyc-dem-margins-plummeted

Across the city, Trump gained about 94,000 more votes than he had in 2020 — while Harris garnered around 573,000 fewer than Biden did four years ago.

a lot of liberals and dem-sympathetics sat out this election.

I wonder how many people left the top of the ballot blank or wrote in someone in places like NYC.

I wonder how many people left the top of the ballot blank or wrote in someone in places like NYC.

Though maybe i would have researched the average lifespan of pigs and put in the most likely degrees of descendence…

One thing that hit me this year was my property tax assessment going up 23%, due to the past several years of home sales going completely nuts. I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat. I had to file an appeal (which I had never done before), and when the first appeal was denied, filed a second appeal, where thankfully they knocked some value off my property.

Just in terms of things that might make a struggling person feel like the government is fucking them. Not that this is a federal issue at all, but I bet some people would extrapolate it that way.

It contributes to the overall sentiment. I was reminded of 1980 when even my liberal parents didn’t support Carter because of the inflation/sense of decline and anxiety.

Important to note that a ton of people I know in NY didn’t vote for Harris because of Gaza, and the protests there have been the largest and most consistent of any in the US

I outlined my perspective as someone with a "good" job and relatively comfortable life in the Trump containment thread. Property tax that's gone from $3K to $10K per year since I moved into my house is a big contributing factor to the growing sense of insecurity I've felt over the past 5-10 years. I've gone from not worrying about my finances to constantly worrying about getting bills paid and being threatened continually with the prospect of losing my job for going on 5 years now. My outlook is that I can still essentially live a decent life and plenty of people have it much worse, so there isn't a reason to complain, but I can easily imagine lots of people in similar circumstances who instead say "welp, better vote Trump."

Maybe the rest of the country will pass versions of California’s Prop 13 … I forget that property taxes are calculated differently outside of CA.

I had to look up when it was passed because I first thought it was 1976 but that didn’t seem right, and it was 1978, and it was a reaction to the economy of the Carter years.

Wouldn’t NY, a safe blue state, be seen as a good to stay home in if you really felt you couldn’t/didn’t want to vote for whatever reason? xps

My mom’s house insurance has doubled in the last couple of years and will go up another 25% this year. Property taxes aren’t so bad because lol old at least.

Despite people saying everyone will just decide the economy is great because Trump I don’t see it. Partisans do a 180 on economic feeling but that’s true of Democrats as well - for the people who made a difference in this election (switchers and non-voters alike), the Trump economy is going to be as bad or worse than the Biden economy.

Important to note that a ton of people I know in NY didn’t vote for Harris because of Gaza, and the protests there have been the largest and most consistent of any in the US

In Mass, Harris got about what Clinton got in 2016. 60%. Biden got 66% in 2020. Trump got 36% this time. That's too close to 40% for me.

Trump went up 4% since last time. I guess that's not the end of the world. Taxachusetts still right with God.

I think as soon as Trump takes office, the media will go all in on how fabulous the economy is, and he will claim full credit for it, and if he's smart (he's not) he'll just sit back, do nothing, let the fed keep slashing rates, and be celebrated for it. Some people will absolutely buy this, some will not. The shine will fade eventually, and then who knows?

Wouldn’t NY, a safe blue state, be seen as a good to stay home in if you really felt you couldn’t/didn’t want to vote for whatever reason? xps

Yes. But even though it doesn't affect the electoral college, I do wonder about the cumulative effect of people who might otherwise vote for a Democrat staying home. In part because of them, Trump can now claim a win in the popular vote and improvements in his vote share in all but two states. That produces a narrative that will shape the direction of the Democratic Party over the next few years. Maybe it leads to more creative thinking about how to retain and expand the existing Democratic coalition, though I'm guessing a lot of focus will be on winning back Biden-Trump voters.

Bret Stephens has already pre-written a year's worth of columns

staying home entirely in a safe blue state is a non-starter for me, you can abstain voting for President all you want but don't ignore the downticket races

or the ballot initiatives, if any

And I have summoned a year’s worth of middle fingers in response

I hope NYT gets DDOSed every day for a year

I wonder how many people left the top of the ballot blank or wrote in someone in places like NYC.

― JoeStork, Friday, November 8, 2024 9:40 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I live in los angeles and wrote in my dog

voted for most of the progressives-endorsed candidates and measures tho, including the anti-slavery one which failed…

Yglesias is saying that being pro-Arab is the same as being antisemitic. But in fact voters who want Palestinians treated humanely are not antisemitic. Slotkin won because she was willing to address the concerns of people opposed to the mass slaughter in Gaza, which Harris… pic.twitter.com/aUVrttl5WE

— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) November 8, 2024