U.S. Politics, November 2024: GARBAGE DAY!!

John Ganz also zeroing in on the lack of coherent message/narrative (which tbf some of us did talk about as the Dems' biggest liability):

having a clear vision of things, even if it is unpleasant or dark, beats no vision or an unclear one. Trump’s campaigns had a clear mythos: a story about what America is and was and where it is going. No Democratic candidate that’s run against him has been able to articulate an opposing vision. This is not particular to this or that candidate, although all of them had individual weaknesses. We can litigate that forever. But it’s really a problem of American liberalism: liberalism is unsure of itself and ameliorative, it’s not a bold vision of the future as it once was in its heyday under LBJ or FDR. Trumpism may be reactionary, but liberalism too, has become too backward-looking—look at my references in the previous sentence. It longs for an old age of consensus instead of gamely going to war to win a new one. American liberalism has also become a land of smug statisticians and wonks who want to test every proposition and shrink from striking out in a new direction, from testing rhetorical appeals in the public arena rather than the statistical survey. Trump and his campaigns were willing to venture boldly and that’s part of what appealed to people. He said, “Follow me and make history,” a dubious claim made by others before him, but it excites people.

https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/i-hope-im-wrong

what’s IXL

I just checked and the only president until now to be in office for two non-consecutive terms was Grover Cleveland (1885-89 / 93-97).

― Nabozo, Wednesday, November 6, 2024 8:54 AM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've seen "Groper Cleveland" on another site. SMDH.

xp it's like ILX but slightly bigger

Presumably, some other messageboard where beamish can shine a light through the darkness -- they won't be doing it here for a while. xxp

I don’t FP much, but that post brought it out of me.

"best hope for dems going forward is that trump does step aside in 2028 and the gop can’t recapture his grotesque appeal"

After the Madison sq garden rally I thought there would be a Trumpism after Trump.

Biggest problem for the governing class is that they aren't interested in making people's lives better in any meaningful sense. Harris was hostile on migration, didn't say anything on climate, did not distance herself from Biden on a livevstreamed genocide, etc.

Nor is Trump, which means Republicans are more than vulnerable if their tariffs and cuts leave the economy in a recession.

If you still think "Trump is more than capable of winning," despite his loss in 2020 and the Republican Party being punished in every national election since 2018, it's because you've been conditioned to think so by a media that was utterly broken by the 2016 election. Trump is not a mythic monster or some kind of political savant. He got lucky once, and he's actually so bad at politics (never mind leadership) that he completely squandered his incumbency advantage (hence "he got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016" and still lost, badly) four years ago. He's got loser stink on him so bad you can smell it through your laptop. They should literally throw him in the back of that garbage truck he was riding around in, come Wednesday morning.

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Sunday, November 3, 2024 1:33 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

posts that haven't aged well

I don’t FP much, but that post brought it out of me.

same.

Just can't believe on some level this sundowning chump who danced onstage for 40 minutes and sleepwalked through his last rallies (as did the attendees) won the popular vote. it doesn't add up, though no doubt it's true.

it just all feels so much worse than 2016, which in itself gave me a mental breakdown. but I learned to make peace with it. it really seemed like people just did not understand how unserious, how stupid, how hateful Donald Trump was. they weren't following it the way I was. but I figured, well he'll be in office, he'll fuck everything up, there will be new controversies and disasters every week, and the Dems will come back stronger. this sort of happened too! 2018 went well, we got a bunch of bona fide progressives in office, 2020 we won the Presidency and a tied Senate, 2022 went surprisingly well...but now? people know who Trump is. he is, by all measures, a much much worse version of himself. he is out there saying Hitler shit on a daily basis, he has nothing nice to say about anyone, he has no actual policies, he is visibly sundowning at a rapid rate. we had the chance to be rid of him once and for all and...we just punted it. I don't understand it. it does not square at all with what we've seen the last two weeks.

Its terrible really. World economy going down the shitter means Germany will move closer to the far-right, it's already looking bad for their tame centre left coalition. Le Pen could become president of France as left have good support but are currently blocked by Macron.

And if these happen the EU could also break. But this is all for another thread.

beamish is she not he just ftr

thanks, noted

posts that haven't aged well

also see: all of his other posts on this thread in the past year

i know it's tough for us all today, really tough - but it would be good if everyone here went out of their way to be particularly humane to each other today imo

yeah I'm just real worried about what all this is leading to. I mean in some sense this is politics the way it's always been, no party in America stays in power very long, even winning two consecutive terms is very difficult in such a polarized nation. even when Biden won a lot of folks on here, myself included, said "he better make some structural changes because the Dems are gonna get trounced in 2024", well, indeed that's what happened. but it does feel like we're at a breaking point, with two wars going on, the climate crisis making things a lot shittier for a lot of people, and much more nakedly and combatively evil people in power, is this just the pendulum swinging or is this the beginning of the end?

My first reaction to this is to say that Dems aren't meek and fearful, exactly, but I suppose they are relative to Trump in the sense that they are unwilling to be as demagogic as he is. And it seems like a lot of people really do want a demagogue.

― jaymc, Wednesday, November 6, 2024 9:29 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Biden letting Netanyahu do whatever while tsk tsking is the picture of meekness and fear

Biden not just waving away student loans is totally meek

all right fine they're meek

seriously why is it so fucking hard to have a party that's anti-war

war is good for business

I began hyperventilating (literally, not figuratively) around something like 9 pm last night. grim acceptance followed shortly after. The result wasn't 'shocking' in that literally we were told it was a coinflip, but all of the 'vibes' I let myself be suckered in by had my hopes up.

I've been dissociating since basically 2023 due to my mental health collapse but this just snapped me out of it last night. all I could think of was my friends and loved ones and how I just wanted to hug them. particularly my friends, itt or IRL, who are more directly in harm's way.

it's hard for me to even say "but we'll fight everyone - we mustn't give up". all the fighting did nothing. but I also know it doesn't help to publicly say things like that.

I will just say please be good to yourselves and each other, as you have continually done. we're all in for a new rendition of an old Hell.

also please everybody go to bed manifesting Trump dying in his sleep along w/ me every night. yeah, President Vance and R Congress still sucks but idk .........i need something to hang my hat on or idk how I wake up every morning

How to Survive the End of the World
From A Climate Strike Sermon by the Rev. Molly Housh Gordon
Unitarian Universalist Church of Columbia, MO

Get to know your neighbors. Feed them. Let them feed you. Watch each others’ kids, grandkids, pets.

Develop the muscle of generosity like you are training for a giving ultra-marathon. Share everything you can with anyone who asks, and ask for what you need.

Get in touch with your body. You will need it, and it knows things. Pay attention to what is happening below your neck

Tell the truth. Tell it to yourself first.

Sit at the feet of your most vulnerable neighbors and your own most vulnerable places. They have the most to teach you about survival. Listen.

Remember your ancestors, and the things they survived. Find the resilience that is your birthright and the courage that made way for your life
.
Practice taking risks. Show up in every struggle where someone is fighting for their dignity, because that is how we will all survive.

Learn about reparations, and native sovereignty. Double down on exorcising supremacy systems from your soul.

Learn to be tender. Refuse to be hardened. Let your heart be moved. Every damn time.

Root in the place you are. Learn its history. Learn its geography. Learn its seasons.

Sing. A lot. And dance. Make art. Make love. Rest luxuriously. Eat pie.

I've been dissociating since basically 2023 due to my mental health collapse but this just snapped me out of it last night. all I could think of was my friends and loved ones and how I just wanted to hug them.

i relate to this. i've been living alone with no friends/family nearby since basically 2018, and last night i felt that reality more than ever.

President Vance would be horrible but I really do not see Rs getting behind him the way they did Trump. it'll be a shitshow and (hopefully) legislative gridlock

I guess one hopeful thought is that Elon and RFK, as horrible as they are, might not last long in this administration either. nobody ever does.

RFK is supposedly being brought to create new regulations, which is a thing republicans all love

Ironically we've been chewing over the thought of a move to Europe for a bit over the course of this year, due to my spouse's job rather than any election fears. But ofc thinking about it more seriously today. (Also I work for the govt & my days are likely numbered when Project 2025 gets rolling anyhow.) It feels like a uniquely dangerous time, and I don't recognize the country I would be leaving behind. I'm not sure what cures the sickness here. It may take generations. Time I don't have.

thank yo ufor that sleeve

Sorry to be negative but I am sad.

I don't know--you can leave the country, but I don't think anyone can escape American policy, particularly on climate

I'm sorry, y'all, for cheerleading the last two weeks. At my buddy's watch party yesterday I started to burrow around 8:15 p.m., not long after the Florida results. I saw him chipping away at Biden's margins and saw the outcome but wouldn't admit it my four other friends.

Now I have to decide how to face the family when what I most want is to scream into their faces until I have no voice left.

I'm sorry, y'all, for cheerleading the last two weeks

you have nothing to apologise for Alfred, you were fighting the good fight

No need to be sorry, Alfred!

Thank you for everything you did.

love to all, ty Neando

Ironically we've been chewing over the thought of a move to Europe for a bit over the course of this year, due to my spouse's job rather than any election fears. But ofc thinking about it more seriously today. (Also I work for the govt & my days are likely numbered when Project 2025 gets rolling anyhow.) It feels like a uniquely dangerous time, and I don't recognize the country I would be leaving behind. I'm not sure what cures the sickness here. It may take generations. Time I don't have.

Having these conversations in our house this morning. I had a book published by a German publisher this year, which might help with an artist's visa for Berlin. But the lazy/easier option might be to leave Montana for Colorado. Or drive north to Canada, but we'd be in the middle of their hard-right prairie, and have to head for the west coast.

Yeah, frogbs and Alfred have nothing to apologize for! You two, especially, helped me keep my head at times these past few months (and even longer than that).

all right fine they're meek

Just to follow up on this: I agree that Dems could be more forceful in fighting for certain things when they have the power to do so, but I don't want a president who's as carelessly aggressive in the way that Trump is. The point of that Brandon Friedman tweet that I posted is that a lot of Americans seem to want a bold, belligerent attitude regardless of how misguided it is, and how many people it will hurt. And in fact the promise of punishment is part of what they like about it. This is what makes me despair because I feel like the egalitarian values that Democrats hold (even if they don't always live up to them) are being rejected in favor of pure authoritarianism. A stronger Democratic vision may not be enough.

I feel bad too, I found a lot of reasons to be optimistic about this, the enthusiasm gap was so fucking massive, apparently you had huge, record breaking turnout with urban areas matching their 2020 vote total by 1 PM, and I guess it all meant nothing?

my view was either Harris wins or everything we knew about politics was wrong. I guess it's the latter. debates don't matter, fundraising doesn't matter, rallies don't matter, ground game doesn't matter, actual policy doesn't matter, the ONLY thing that matters apparently is how much vitriol and hatred you can spread against the other side. and how much news coverage you can get. not looking good for folks who actually want to make life better.

edmonton or winnipeg can be hard places, but both are progressive strongholds with good cultural life

<3

No problem with cheerleading, particularly when you were doing work for the cause. The only thing that annoyed me about the discourse here was the buy-in to the "the polls are bullshit" theory, which made us look like the GOP in 2012.

yeah. I'm sorry for that. I legitimately did not see any signs that Trump could come even close to winning the popular vote. it does not match with what I've been seeing in the real world at all.

at the end of the day, Trump did get significantly less votes than 2020. but Harris got way way less than Biden.

xxxxxpost Yeah, I think Democrats are largely allergic to that type of aggressive boldness, which is why Fetterman will probably never be the nominee.

Sorry to be negative but I am sad.

― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Wednesday, November 6, 2024 10:34 AM bookmarkflaglink

nothing to apologize for. we're all feeling it and it helps to feel it rather than hold it in

So many reasons to be disheartened, but again I find myself somewhat astounded by how this guy gets the groups he most despises (and openly despises!) to vote for him in record numbers.

I'm sorry, y'all, for cheerleading the last two weeks. At my buddy's watch party yesterday I started to burrow around 8:15 p.m., not long after the Florida results. I saw him chipping away at Biden's margins and saw the outcome but wouldn't admit it my four other friends.

Now I have to decide how to face the family when what I most want is to scream into their faces until I have no voice left.

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, November 6, 2024 10:36 AM bookmarkflaglink

you especially have nothing to apologize for. you did the work. America failed the test.

I thought frogbs's posts this past month were just fine. I will second objections raised to another poster, though, who was consistently condescending, going on ad nauseum about stuff only he understood that the rest of us were to stupid to understand.

Alfred and frogbs and anyone else who's been regularly expressing optimism about the election...please don't beat yourself up and don't let that shit flag if you can help it. That's exactly the sort of energy we're gonna collectively need to get through this thing.

otm

This feels a lot like 2004, where I assumed Bush was going to win for months, until the very late good polling for Kerry, and then there was a pretty big GOP blowout, and suddenly it was hard to imagine how the Democrats ever could have won the election.