Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

I still need to watch Echo. Secret Invasion had so much potential with that cast but, yeah, not great.

I just watched half of episode 3 of Agatha, and woof, this is like a '90s kids show. The writing is pretty bad, and pretty much all awkward exposition, and the acting is super broad. I want to believe, but ... woof.

look if you aren’t onboard for a Kathryn-Hahn led show about witches that is a YOU problem not a show problem.

gtfo with “woof”

I like Kathryn Hahn! I like witches! But so far this just isn't that good. Like, in the second episode, when the hooded figures were showing up, and the Joe Locke character is running around in a panic, clutching his face and flailing about like Bud Abbott? That's just goofy. I'm at the part in episode three with the swollen faces and there's a lot more silliness and that's where I had to take a break. Just so broad.

Really, I can say is lol at taking a break there

again: this is a you problem

Of course it's a me problem! I'm the one not liking it that much, lol. But hey, not everything is for everyone.

Sad lol I had in the wine episode was when they suggested Joe Locke drink wine, and someone has to say "no, he's underage!" And I was like, oh yeah, it's Disney.

i was losing interest after the first 4 episodes (and only stuck around for Kathryn-Hahn), but it did pay off as the last 5 eps step up the game quite a bit. and some goofy aspects will actually make sense later

my main problem is that it's not actually about Agatha, and can we please get a whole season of hardboiled procedural

For what it’s worth, if memory serves, ep3 was by far my least favorite. The one where they act like a rock band toward the end. But overall I thought the series was good. It did a good job of laying foundations for solid payoffs later on.

Ok, what’s the deal with Billy and Tommy. They weren’t real, right? Wanda made them, so how is the Teen one of those kids. Is this just fuzzy comic book logic or am I missing something?

But she made them with Love

The teen died in the car crash. At the same time, the "anomaly" in Westview disintegrated, so Billy and Tommy ceased to exist except in spiritual form since they were created with Chaos Magic. Billy then moved into the Teen's body moments after his death, reanimating him with Billy's personality and none of William Kaplan's memories

Where did they get a spiritual form? Wanda makes souls?

I realize I’m overthinking this. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

The teen [show hidden text]

i love how this literally represents the sigil

Haha

Ok, I'm glad I stuck it out, because it got a lot better in the second half, when it turned into a drama and dropped most of the silly stuff.

I honestly have no idea what Disney and Marvel is up to, because they keep adding more and more characters and more and more mythology, all while rebooting and rejiggering whatever they at one point had planned, with the next several movies apparently more corporeal, for lack of a better word, leaning into action over cosmic stuff or magic stuff. And even those more imminent movies and shows, Captain America and Thunderbolts and Daredevil, I'm sure they themselves will introduce tons of new characters and mythology.

I guess some of this magical/cosmic stuff can or will tie in to Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom, but there's a lot to juggle. And they keep introducing potential/future Young Avengers, too, where will they all fit in?

I don't know if it had already been reported, but I guess an official general synopsis of the Fantastic Four movie implies it will at least partly echo the comic book introduction of Galactus. I assume there will be some twists and turns as well because they have to get everything back on the right timeline, or whatever parallel universe BS they are working with.

xp I think 'mythology' is maybe not the best word here, considering you're also talking about physical vs mystical, but you don't (I think?) mean mythology as being entirely on one side of that dichotomy?

Seeing a legit Kirby Galactus on screen would rule

xpost I meant (I think) the difference between big picture magic/mystical characters based on (generally) mythology, like gods and demons and witches and planets and the like, vs. superheroes like Captain America and the Hulk that punch things.

Okay, but (leaving aside planets - I guess you mean Ego?) you're saying that it's Captain America, Thunderbolts and Daredevil, that will introduce tons of mythology - the last I heard, they were all pretty much on the punchy side? Unless DD is doing something with Electra, I suppose.

I mean, I'm not sold on the split, specifically because the FF movie will mean Doom, who's solidly science and solidly magic.

Going back to what I wrote, I think I was talking in the context of Agatha but also *Marvel* mythology. (As opposed to literal mythology, though that is roped in a bit, too.) Agatha introduces (in passing) Mephisto, introduces Wiccan, Death, etc., all new major characters, but then coming up on the MCU schedule it's all punchy superheroes (Thunderbolts, Captain America, Daredevil, Ironheart) that will also introduce their own new characters, each/many with long Marvel histories, and so on, all existing in the same (more or less) Marvel universe. And then FF will come up and in theory bridge the punchy with the cosmic and the magical, while also introducing apparently another half dozen or more major characters (FF, Galactus, Silver Surfer, maybe not even Doom), while at the same time righting this timeline stuff (I presume). Assuming nothing else goes wrong in the world (fired actors, pandemics), that's a lot to tie together!

Anyway, tl;dr, I think I meant Marvel mythology in general, the connectedness and history of all these characters and titles.

Right, that makes more sense.

Thunderbolts (sorry, Thunderbolts*) is all people we've seen before, that's kind of the point.
Captain America will probably have a few more, though the big names are all from the Norton Hulk film (two Rosses and Tim Blake Nelson's Leader back!) - which, sure, is a deep cut at this stage.
Daredevil and Ironheart will probably be pretty closed off, I'm not sure if they're going to lean on a TV series for a while after The Marvels. Also "Following the events of Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022), MIT student Riri Williams returns home to Chicago where she discovers secrets that pit technology against magic, setting her on a path of danger and adventure." - holy shit, they're doing The Hood!

But this is also all stuff that Marvel has done well when they were doing stuff well - the last film before Infinity Wars was Black Panther, which was "here's some guy from a film two years and five films ago". Now it was a big deal because people were hyped for the character, but it set up enough stuff that no-one really wondered why the punch-up at the end of Infinity Wars was in a place we first saw 5 hours ago. They're good (again, when they're good) at establishing in the film why the characters are interesting, and leaving the Marvel mythology stuff for people who care.

I'm not sure what you mean by the timeline stuff? If it's the multiple Kangs, I'd suspect that will be dropped on the floor.

I was going to scoff that of course the FF film will have Doom, but you may well be right - it's the last film before Doomsday, but it's a full 9 months before (during which we'll have Ironheart and Marvel Zombies, if you're keeping physical / mystical score). It'll probably make more sense to establish the Fantastic Four themselves in their own film, maybe a cameo at the end, then leave Doomsday to Doom. It's what they did for Thanos, which goes back to my point - about 5 minutes of screen time before Infinity War, enough to get the fanboys giddy, but the film established him and wove a bunch of previous stories together.

Re: timeline and dimensions, Fantastic Four I believe is set in the 1960s. Given they essentially haven't played a role in any of the existing Marvel movies, nor has Galactus or Silver Surfer, we've got to presume that the Fantastic Four takes place in a different universe. Right? And didn't they put Beast or one of the X-Men in the end credits to The Marvels, with one of the Marvels in a parallel universe? Not to mention the threatened prospect of the rest of the now disney-owned mutants. Lots of timeline and dimension nonsense to straighten out, unless they just continue to scatter these narrative threads. Heck, might make more sense than having 200 superheroes, monsters, mutants, witches, aliens and mythical beings duking it out at once. Then again, Secret Wars is still on the sched, right?

I mean, I'm not sure we really know anything - everything I could find is quoting the synopsis and the synopsis is very careful to say "1960s-inspired, retro-futuristic..." I suppose it could be possible that it's like the first Captain America film, it's in our 1960s and then they fall through a portal at the end?

But yeah, it makes sense that it's a parallel universe - they've been happy to say "Yeah there are mutants and Fantastic Four in Canada other universes" since at least Multiverse of Madness, 18 months before The Marvels - or What If...?, six months before that. They probably had a lot of plans which went to shit when they realised they couldn't use Kang, but if you wanted to get all the universes together and end up with one, the 2015 Secret Wars was very "everyone from everywhere", it's what led to Ultimate Spiderman and Ultimate Reed ending up in the 'real' Marvel comics.

Maybe they pull an Infinity War in the FF movie, and they don't save their earth?

Time to beat up some more hallways. (And people in them.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xALolZzhSM

For some nostalgia, I always appreciated this DJP post when the trailer for The Defenders dropped:

I can see the episode titles now:

Shut Up, Danny
Shut Up, Danny: Pt 2
Danny. No.
Jesus Christ, Danny
Do We Really Have To Humor This Tool?
WHAT THE HELL, DANNY
I'm Gonna Kill Him
The Danny Gambit
RIP Danny
How Did He Survive?????
Let's Move To New Jersey

― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:50 AM

Very excited about Punisher coming back

I enjoyed The Defenders a lot but it would have been better if they’d followed my template

I mean, it's all right there.

I just now thought "There was a Defenders TV show? Oh yeah..."

Hands up if you remember the Inhumans one!

I think we put more effort into this (short) thread than they did into the show.

MARVEL TV HAIRVERSE ASSEMBLE: Inhumans

I watched one episode of Inhumans and bailed but I did see the eventual scene of young Blackagar vaporizing his parents and laughed a lot

I think I watched less than one full episode, and I'll watch a lot of garbage. I have no idea what anyone was thinking

My understanding is that someone somewhere was thinking "we have the X-Men at home!" would strengthen their negotiation with Fox.

Also it was the first live-action TV show to be released in IMAX cinemas - the first two episodes were shown in cinema a month or so before the TV premiere.

(Also the Inhumans in general were a good plot thread on Agents of Shield, but there was zero interaction between the shows as far as I know)

I am often wrong, but this does not instill confidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzMo-FgRp64

Tbf, the thing that annoyed me most was the Thing cooking. How can you even pick utensils up with stone oven mitts for hands?

That’s why you need a robot pal

Does the Thing have taste buds? Does he have a stone tongue?

Josh really gunning for the hottest no-prize of 1965

Josh, I think maybe this movie might not be for you?

I like it, I prefer when they swing away from the standard Marvel tone. This has me much more excited than the Falcon Cap movie.

I think at this point Marvel is desperate to make a movie that is for everyone!

Anyway, I've seen all the other ones, don't see why this would be particularly not for me. And I mean, we *know* what this movie will ultimately be like, right? All of the other ones! Albeit new characters/actors. Even "WandaVision" ended up with people in the sky shooting colored light beams at each other.

I think this looks alright actually! A good deal more visual style on evidence than in most MCU.

Definitely seems to at least be making an effort to capture the vibe of the Lee/Kirby run.

I like it. Looks like their origin has happened, as it should have by the fourth FF movie. Spider-Man showed we don’t need another recap. Galactus as a being, not a cloud? Yes, please. Thing cooking, ehhh, but will wait until full movie to critique Pedro and co. I trust the MCU and Kevin Feige to ensure the actors go for the human moments and not Leto / Levi “go broad, it’s a comic book” performances.

Fifth FF if you count Corman. The Thing eating is like him going to the bathroom. I don’t need to see it accurately done, I just trust it happens.

it's clobbering time

(poop)

i grew up watching the saturday morning cartoon and this definitely has those vibes for me

The Thing can do whatever tf he wants!? including cook? idg what the problem is unless you know zero abt him
like sure the lava deal makes it awkward but he’s totally capable anyway sorry i just love The Thing and felt the need to defend my guy

Josh from Chicago Clancy Street