U.S. Politics, October 2024 -- “They smear because they fear”

I think worrying or complaining about Liz Cheney is pointless, tbh. I’m saving my anger for when Harris gives her a cabinet position (IOW, wgaf if she’s out there stumping against Trump, at least she’s doing that and not actively passing bills harmful to my existence. I’ll worry about her when she’s back in a position of political power)

Granted if this was David Duke I’d be saying something different and the line between Duke and Cheney is not as thick as it should be, but that’s human inconsistency for you

Liz has no viable path back into political power (unless Harris appoints her an ambassador or something similar). She's doing this for the satisfaction of publicly dragging Trump as hard as she can.

Yeah, I think an ambassadorship or something would be fine, that wouldn't bother me at all

I guess what I'm dubious about is: is she an effective club? I'm not confused about the logic; I'm questioning the conclusions, if that makes sense.

I do have more abstract concerns about platforming a despicable warmongering racist, but DJP has a point about the timing. My concern, more or less, is this generates headlines about Harris being cozy with one (1) Republican but doesn't damage Trump one bit. I'm unconvinced the Cheney brand has any pull, so the Harris campaign polishing it a little seems dumb to me

I think the strategy probably is just reminding people how many deep red Republicans actually hate Trump, but I think the problem is if you hate Trump, they consider you bluer than blue no matter how red you are.

There are two kinds of people who like Liz Cheney:

1. Traditional Chamber of Commerce-type Republicans who still identify as Republicans but really don't like Trump/MAGA and probably voted for Biden in 2020. (My mom's husband is one of these types, though I don't know his views on Cheney specifically.)

2. MSNBC-watching middle-aged and older liberals whose opposition to Trump is rooted in style as much as (if not more than) ideology, which makes them love anyone who's willing it stick it to the Orange Menace -- especially people about whom they can say "Even *she* hates him!!"

3. Neo-Cons and people who think of China as 'the enemy'

If you look at the absolute incoherency of the people who are still “undecided” it makes some amount of sense. It’s off-putting to people who hate the Cheneys and the people who would be most attracted by it are already on board (fervent resistance “enemy of my enemy” types ie half the people I know on Facebook who follow politics) but I think the campaign is gunning for the pudding-brained “I can’t figure out what each candidate stands for despite them both shrieking their stances into microphones 24/7” as well by showing their bipartisanship.

Liz probably retains some cachet with old-school Republicans over the age of 60 who were just fine with the Bush-Cheney administration, but feel uncomfortable with Trump, especially older Republican women who vaguely fret about the demise of Roe v Wade.

xpost Yes, which is why even though we found the VP debate unsatisfying I think the pudding-brained folks saw Walz call himself a knucklehead and thought "I like this fellow."

The main reason that wing of the GOP dislikes Trump is over NATO and Ukraine.

she's an effective hater

citation needed

Aside from the moral failing inherent to aligning oneself with the monsters like Cheney and the ‘hundreds of Bush staffers’ types is that there appears to be no evidence it has any electoral impact. Hillary getting the entire military and foreign policy arm of Republicanism on her side sure made the difference in 2020.

Democrats cozy up to Cheneys not out of political expedience but because they’re sick freaks who like it.

cool

There's a pack of wild dogs actively eating my family and then another one of the dogs that's just over there using the bathroom on my belongings, and I'm pretty unthrilled about everything that's transpiring but yeah if pressed I guess I'd say that I hate that one dog a little less than the others

sick freaks who like it

no kink-shaming plz

Political parties love highlighting turncoats from the opposing party, whether its Tulsi or RFK or Cheeny or Zell Miller or Colin Powell or Lieberman or all the racist Democrats who became Republicans.

Whoa, Melania! We never knew ya

Melania Trump doubled down in her first public response to news of her passionate support for abortion rights, a position starkly at odds with that of her husband, Donald Trump, and the Republican party he leads.

“Individual freedom is a fundamental principle that I safeguard,” the former first lady said in a video released on Thursday. “Without a doubt, there is no room for compromise when it comes to this essential right that all women possess from birth. Individual freedom. What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

OK, good for her, but Melania is such a strange, politically and socially detached creature that it's hard to see what difference this makes to anyone or anything.

A support for abortion rights that was nowhere to be seen when Roe went down, but is now front and center because a book is out, and there is money to be made.

or it's some devious political calculation - "Honey, you be the pro-choice one, okay?" wouldn't surprise me at all

If the Cheneys are in to help beat Trump, so be it. That’s the result that matters.

There's a pack of wild dogs actively eating my family and then another one of the dogs that's just over there using the bathroom on my belongings

Liz Cheney's entirely political history indicates that she would eagerly eat your family but the slightly larger dog leading the pack isn't using proper table manners while doing so.

Nothing about this is about "liking" Liz Cheney. Donald Trump is the enemy. You attack the enemy with every weapon within reach. Most normal humans are never gonna hear about this event, just as most normal humans are never gonna hear about 99 percent of the attacks Harris and Walz level at Trump. But you keep blasting away and eventually everyone has heard something about how Donald Trump is a piece of shit who should not be president, and that moves enough votes that he loses. You guys are analyzing the spin angle on one pellet from a shotgun blast.

I highly doubt there's any strategy there, Trump backed himself into a corner with the abortion stuff, he knows it's a losing issue but every time he suggests he might be open to moderating his stance the Evangelicals go after him, obviously Trump himself doesn't give a shit either way, he's just saying whatever he thinks will get people to stop bothering him about it

I think the Melania thing is to provide some amount of cover to Trump on his most vulnerable issue. I'm sure there will be various interest groups circulating it through targeted social media etc., trying to reach those suburban wine moms — but independent of the Trump campaign to protect him from the pro-lifers.

f you look at the absolute incoherency of the people who are still “undecided” it makes some amount of sense. It’s off-putting to people who hate the Cheneys and the people who would be most attracted by it are already on board (fervent resistance “enemy of my enemy” types ie half the people I know on Facebook who follow politics) but I think the campaign is gunning for the pudding-brained “I can’t figure out what each candidate stands for despite them both shrieking their stances into microphones 24/7” as well by showing their bipartisanship.

― DJP, Thursday, October 3, 2024 2:02 PM (thirty-five minutes ago)

this is pretty compelling, thanks! I do think making this alliance is immoral (and more importantly maybe, a sign of things to come) and even giving her an ambassadorship would be grotesque, but I was genuinely curious about the tactical logic.

You guys are analyzing the spin angle on one pellet from a shotgun blast.

give me a break, this thread routinely spends hours discussing individual polls. You yourself constantly post stuff that no normal human will ever hear about

liz is out of office and a pariah to the majority of her party, so her ability to eat us is much impaired. thank goodness. her main power now is as a spoiler wannabe. it's fairly safe to let her do whatever she can in that role.

Trump is actively trying to whitewash his views on abortion because he knows it's killing him, he posted on truth social that he would veto a national abortion ban, which I absolutely do not believe for one second. So I think Melania's statement is just part of this whitewashing.

here's a campaign issue more salient to normal humans (gas prices, not ~foreign policy~): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/03/biden-says-us-discussing-possible-israeli-plans-to-attack-irans-oil-industry

The NY Times goes after Trump for not revealing his health records. (gift link)

Yes, there's bothsides bullshit in there. Still...

As a presidential candidate in 2015, Donald J. Trump declined to release his medical records, instead offering a four-paragraph letter from his personal doctor proclaiming that he would be “the healthiest person ever elected to the presidency.”

In 2020, when he was hospitalized with Covid and running for re-election, Mr. Trump’s doctors gave minimal information about his condition, which, it emerged later, was far more dire than their public descriptions let on.

In 2024, days before becoming the official Republican presidential nominee for the third time, he was grazed by a would-be assassin’s bullet, yet his campaign did not hold a briefing on his condition, release hospital records or make the emergency physicians who treated him available for interview.

Now, just over a month from an election that could make Mr. Trump, 78, the oldest person ever to serve as president (82 years, 7 months and 6 days when his term would end in January 2029), he is refusing to release even the most basic information about his health.

What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

I really don't care, do u?

The NY Times goes after Trump for not revealing his health records. (gift link)

What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

In what I'll take as a positive sign, I was walking a couple construction sites today and saw three different laborers wearing "Harris Walz" high-vis construction safety shirts.

Congrats to Melania for being there for the power, corruption and racism but not the abortion stuff.

here's an encouraging sign. wonder what specifically is driving this. could be so many things I guess

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/29/politics/kamala-harris-senior-voters-election-analysis/index.html

What does, ‘My body, my choice’ really mean?”

it means "for rich people only"

Made me laugh: CNN's Brianna Keilar pointing out that Trump is sensitive to the fact that his crowds have shrunk. That was the verb she chose, so I immediately thought of--yes--"shrinkage."

just heard some reporting about new voter registration trends, and it's leaning heavily towards young women, and young women of color in particular... all bodes well for Harris as far as enthusiasm

Whoa, Melania! We never knew ya

FLINO, former first lady in name only?

any focus on Trump's health is welcome. we still know nothing about his Saturday "night last minute check up" where he was rushed to Walter Reed, as you do.

That was the wildest, where he came out with the loose tie looking more like Rodney Dangerfield than ever?

Apologies if someone else has shared this

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/10/07/can-harris-stop-blue-collar-workers-from-defecting-to-donald-trump

Gah, remember when he made that "I'm OK!" video after catching covid that was clearly edited together from several takes to cut out clips of him coughing uncontrollably?! I can't believe this asshole is running for president again and/or not dead.

One thing re: Cheneys, if having them in the news was irrelevant, Trump wouldn't have to go out of his way to slam them as washed-up RINOs (which he has). If there wasn't anything to the strategy Trump could ignore it.

Trump never ignores any attack on him. It's like his #1 Rule of Life.

I don't recommend it but I watched a few minutes of this rally he's doing in a high school gym right now and it's kinda stunning how visibly bored everyone is. half the crowd is staring at their phones and two people right in front are trying not to fall asleep. these rallies can't be helping him.

Trump never ignores any attack on him. It's like his #1 Rule of Life.

As proved by the debate with Harris. Honestly, that's all she really has to do — keep talking shit about him with cameras rolling. He'll spend the entire last four weeks of the campaign in "nuh-UH!/I know you are but what am I?" mode.

this is good, more of this

A Colorado county clerk was sentenced to nine years in prison Thursday after spearheading a data breach scheme in the 2020 presidential election.

District Judge Matthew Barrett sparred with former Mesa County clerk Tina Peters during her sentencing for continuing to push discredited claims about rigged voting machines, and said she had not taken her job seriously.

He also said he believed she would do the same things she was found guilty of doing again.

“I am convinced you would do it all over again if you could. You’re as defiant as any defendant this court has ever seen,” Barrett said to her, according to The Associated Press. “You are no hero. You abused your position, and you’re a charlatan.”