U.S. Politics, October 2024 -- “They smear because they fear”

"January 6th was not Facebook ads"

yeah i agree. vance is lying like crazy but instead of calling him on it walz is focusing on the feel good stuff they “agree” on. i get why he’s doing it but its giving a stalemate at best

xp collardio

Love Walz take on democracy.

vance making it about “muh facebook censorship” was so pathetic

Vance cannot say Trump lost the 2020 election

JD is blaming Harris and illegal immigrants for everything---Harris let the illegal immigrants drive up housing prices, also lying about stuff Trump has done and proposed---brushing it off and denying it, I should say, since he's being polite, nicer than at rallies and in interviews---so yeah, he's set the bar very low, hopping over it real nice in his manner---also a lot of "non-answers," replies talking around the question---but in a smooth way, so it may get called a draw,as a more-or-less consensus/centrist take.

I think Walz got the winning soundbite

Trying to make "...because of Kamala Harris's policies" a thing.

pretty disappointing overall imo

Draw, Vance won the first half but Walz recovered and did well in the second half.

hey yall, didnt watch the debate, i just wanna say i hate this bumass country and i hate this election with all mah heart

hope thats chill w everyone

Vance won, by seeming calm and reasonable instead of the nutcase he actually is. But this debate is not going to matter.

W did jab in first half sometimes, esp. about Trump nixing the bipartisan immigration deal. Is Vance gonna be this nice on the trail now? PBS dude saying Vance's people say no.

Walz largely failed to spell out all the crazy things Trump and Vance have said, and he failed to defend the current state of the economy and the border. Walz just tried to be a nice guy

Yeah I don’t know who Vance expected to win over with his numerous “I actually somewhat agree with the governor” because no you fucking don’t.

the nutcase stuff is a lot of the country's first impression of him. but its not the same kind of ranting and raving nutcase that Trump is, he comes off way more calculated and conniving. Trump's greatest (maybe only?) political gift is that he comes off like a WWE heel, you know he doesn't literally mean what he says but you get the gist of it. Vance comes off like the exact opposite of that.

Vance, with a few exceptions, was just sanewashing himself and Trump

Yes, TW should have said more about economy and border (undocumented crossings down 30% in last few months), but crazy things said are in news all the time. He was maybe disconcerted by JD mirroring his nice guy thing for a change (although, seems like Pete B. would have done some of that in debate rehearsals).

Although Vance's refusal to acknowledge Trump lost the 2020 election did damage his slick presentation, but that was way at the end of the debate

I was a little disappointed with Walz’s delivery but I don’t think the structure of this debate served the viewer particularly well. The main take-away from this debate was Vance refusing to say Biden won the 2020 election.

With Trump, despite his familiar approach, I'm less and less sure of how much he means what he says, beyond the moment, anyway, but "sanewashing," yeah!!

And Walz kept pressing him about the state's rights approach to reproductive rights, naming women who had suffered and sometimes died, having to travel far for care---also naming Texas has having higher infant mortality rates than a lot of countries---vs. Minnesota protection, correcting Vance's lies about that too.

Walz was prob at his strongest on that.

so far the clip that seems to be getting the most play is Vance saying "you guys said you weren't gonna fact check" which given Vance's debate club vibe is a tremendously idiotic thing to say

Re abortion and fertility issues Vance actually said he felt bad about those people who died, and Walz needed to demand a minute to spell out better that those women died because of who Trump put on the Supreme Court and Vance feeling bad now doesn't matter . But for some reason the Harris campaign strategy for Walz was just to disagree politely

Walz largely failed to spell out all the crazy things Trump and Vance have said, and he failed to defend the current state of the economy and the border. Walz just tried to be a nice guy

The correct choice, in a vibes-based election that will be decided by morons. I didn't watch, but from what I'm reading, Vance's two big moments were "You said you weren't going to fact-check!" and refusing to say Trump lost in 2020.

I really can't watch these anymore, I guess. Tuned in 5 minutes before it started, felt my entire body swell with anxiety, watched Walz stumble in the opening question, and then turned it off.

Hopefully there's already Tiktoks and reels of Vance saying You said you weren't going to fact-check!" and refusing to say Trump lost in 2020

that opening question was bullshit, not only opening with a giant political landmine but phrasing it in such a way that doesn't even leave "let's try to negotiate peace" as an option. give them a couple softballs so they get comfortable first!

I think that the vice presidential debate really doesn't matter at all in the end, most people are not watching it and nobody bases their opinion on it

I think you're right. Part of what gets me agitated is knowing that the media puts a big spotlight on debates as one of the central frames through which to assess the presidential race. It's an opportunity for narratives to take hold that are distorted and disconnected from the actual stakes of the election.

I think I used to be like, well, Democrats are right about stuff, so they just need to make their case in a debate, and people will be persuaded. Now I don't trust that any of that will actually happen because of media incentives and information warfare, so events like this just feel super-fraught to me.

My personal take is that what most politically-minded people want from a VP debate is to see 'their guy' vanquish 'the other guy' so they can feel good about it. Whereas, politically detached people mainly want to be reassured that both VPs seem like they could step into the office if necessary, but they have no clear criteria for figuring that out except their poorly informed sense of what a president does.

the main takeaway of this for me is it really demonstrates that Vance was probably one of the worst possible choices for Trump's running mate, he's kind of the anti-Trump in a lot of ways. I don't think it works because Trump singlehandedly set the tone of this election as being cutthroat and insane. he's calling Kamala mentally handicapped, accusing her of murder, and is promising nuclear hellfire should she win.

in contrast Vance is trying to make the campaign seem calm and collected and I think he made a point to be nice to Walz which doesn't jive at all with what Trump was doing during his debates, which obviously everyone who watched this also saw. Vance came off like the exact sort of swamp creature that Trump supporters hate. he's not gonna be a dealbreaker for most of them but I highly doubt the Trump freaks like him at all.

I think that the vice presidential debate really doesn't matter at all in the end, most people are not watching it and nobody bases their opinion on it

― Dan S, Tuesday, October 1, 2024 11:56 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

didn't watch it, but if it sounds like a boring draw it'll fizzle out quickly and hopefully get trump to be an idiot and debate again.

VP debates should be wargaming scenarios of how their candidate dies and the steps they’d take to secure their authority and rally ‘Murrica.

“Mr. Vance, President Trump shanks a drive on the 16th hole and has an aneurysm while screaming at his caddy. What are your first steps?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7rUS-tMIbk

Following the VP debate, Tim Walz went from well liked to beloved. JD Vance went from loathed to still not well liked. pic.twitter.com/UacjSCx90Q

— Matt McDermott (@mattmfm) October 2, 2024

Yeah, I got home from karaoke and started grading papers so I didn't watch the debate, but flipping through the morning teevee shows I was surprised to learn Walz's approval rating went up?

I think you're right. Part of what gets me agitated is knowing that the media puts a big spotlight on debates as one of the central frames through which to assess the presidential race. It's an opportunity for narratives to take hold that are distorted and disconnected from the actual stakes of the election.

I think I used to be like, well, Democrats are right about stuff, so they just need to make their case in a debate, and people will be persuaded. Now I don't trust that any of that will actually happen because of media incentives and information warfare, so events like this just feel super-fraught to me.

― jaymc, Wednesday, October 2, 2024 5:13 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is so well said, and speaks to larger issues in our politics. (Although there's plenty of wiggle room in "Democrats are right about stuff"--> I think they are far more right about stuff than Republicans, but yeah this is well said.)

Like I don't think it's just republicans are a threat to our democracy, but it's the media and their framing of things that's really fucking us

I would have thought Walz could’ve done more pushback on Vance’s sanewashing attempts because the two or three times he managed to do that, he really landed.

Was this true?

Gotta admit JD's ability to code switch from a sociopathic ass who is ambivalent to human suffering on MAGA bro podcasts to a guy who credibly seems like he doesn't want other people to die on the debate stage is a useful political skill that he has deployed with effect

— Tim Miller (@Timodc) October 2, 2024

The use of “code switch” here is… I don’t know how I feel about it, but it is certainly something.

more like chode switch

Curious if Trump is going to yell at him for being too nice.

https://theonion.com/screaming-trump-takes-out-frustrations-on-person-he-ass-1851617123rev1723143413843/

on-person-he-ass

Nothing means anything but all the focus groups and polls I've seen mentioned this morning give Walz a strong edge in the debate. Because people react more to just a general sense of the person than any specific answers, probably, plus also punting on the 2020 election and Jan. 6 was bad for Vance.

Politico snap poll of debate:

Walz Wins Independents 58-42 Over Vancehttps://t.co/8tBsT6sNeu pic.twitter.com/WRCm64rK7S

— James Singer (@Jemsinger) October 2, 2024