Posts you had second thought about and decided not to post - put them here

I don't enjoy improvisational jazz, but I had a revealing exchange with some jazz drummers a while back when I said, "I don't know how to hear it/understand it because the pattern is too unpredictable, there are too many possibilities" and they were like, "Uh, there are practically no other possibilities, all the musician's choices are pre-determined" I guess by the key, the chords, the progression, the rhythm, the genre, etc? I think that showed that I don't understand the limiting structures.

Nah. These people are literally dying out. Anyone under 40 has never known a world without rap. There’s rapping - or at least rap cadences - in every third country song now. Especially country songs by dudes. Rap will literally outlive the “rap isn’t music” people.

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson)

yeah agreed, people who say "rap isn't music", i take them about as seriously as the people who used to say rock and roll wasn't music, it was just a collection of strange electronic noises.

I don't enjoy improvisational jazz, but I had a revealing exchange with some jazz drummers a while back when I said, "I don't know how to hear it/understand it because the pattern is too unpredictable, there are too many possibilities" and they were like, "Uh, there are practically no other possibilities, all the musician's choices are pre-determined" I guess by the key, the chords, the progression, the rhythm, the genre, etc? I think that showed that I don't understand the limiting structures.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit)

that's my experience... when i was young i was getting into "weird music" and got a cd of Free Jazz, and it sounded like just a bunch of weird noise to me. i listen to it now and it sounds basically normal to me. sure, it's an unusual lineup, but the dudes seem to be getting along pretty well and giving each other space. i have a harder time with Miles at the Plugged Nickel 1965... that weird aggro hypermasculine vibe those dudes have combined with the insane degree to which they know their shit makes it a really challenging listen for me

talking about the cultural context of jazz, i was surprised recently to find out just how highly "whiplash" ranks on the IMDB top 100. and apparently a lot of people watch that movie and are like "oh, cool, that's jazz". that's not jazz, that's child abuse. if that's why someone doesn't "like jazz", i'm good with that. i don't like child abuse either!

With the recent deaths of Shelley Duvall and Gena Rowlands, I’ve been watching/re-watching a shit tonne of American movies from the 50s to the 70s, and it almost seems like a feature, in films from that era, for a character (usually the antagonist) to take a moment to say something withering about jazz. I haven’t been keeping track of when and where! I should keep track.

Neither of those actresses is in it but there is really funny rather well-known exchange between Elvis and some beardo jazzbos.

I'm of the age and cohort that I occasionally have to remind myself, oh yeah, some people like jazz.

i used to love teaching my music class for a million reasons, but in part because i was able to show jazz-averse people that jazz is a big tent genre and there is probably a jazz for them. i have a lot of good memories of people discovering music they had no idea they would like.

"There’s rapping - or at least rap cadences - in every third country song now."

just to be clear. i was talking about the act of rapping. not the music or beats. there are just a lot of people who don't consider anything other than singing to be a genuine thing to listen to.

i do sometimes think that people who listen to rap aren't really aware of the fact that most people don't listen to rap.

people age out of rap as well. which doesn't happen with every genre. people listen to less of it as they age. and 99.99% of people who liked rap when they were young will tell you that the best rap was made when they were young and that the rap made now is trash made by people with no talent.

People age out of a lot of genres tho … i kinda wanna say that most people as they get to be old tend to get Hongroy

i do sometimes think that people who listen to rap aren't really aware of the fact that most people don't listen to rap.

Again, I don’t think this is true! Everyone, and I mean *everyone*, under 35 listens to rap. It’s just…in the air. It’s inescapable if you’re living in the world and you’re not deaf. And there are middle-aged people who listen to old rap the way other middle-aged people listen to old rock. Kamala Harris and Barack Obama put on old rap records all the time, to the annoyance of younger people. I would bet money on it.

people age out of rap as well. which doesn't happen with every genre. people listen to less of it as they age. and 99.99% of people who liked rap when they were young will tell you that the best rap was made when they were young and that the rap made now is trash made by people with no talent.

This happens with every genre of music and has since the first people beat on a log or whatever.

I bet Obama knows every word of Busta Rhymes’ verse on the “Scenario” remix. You put that on and people of a certain age will shout the entire thing. It’s Pavlovian.

xp the log-beaters were sellouts, real music is made by beating on rocks, c'mon everyone knows this

i was talking about the act of rapping. not the music or beats.

afaict, the rhythmic inventiveness of rap, the fact that it is can be danced to, is what makes it music. remove the beats and you may as well call it a poetry recitation.

I have NOT aged out of rap, and I got Kamala Harris here to agree

there will always be a huge percentage of people - a majority of the world even - who will never take rapping seriously. and who will never listen to people rapping. because it isn't singing.

― scott seward, Monday, September 2, 2024 12:52 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

its funny because I have a really hard time taking modern rap seriously because 80% of it is basically just singing now

Like none of this even scans as "rapping" to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrAchTdepsU

ha yeah that's the complaint I hear from people over 35. zpost

generation zpost

"Again, I don’t think this is true! Everyone, and I mean *everyone*, under 35 listens to rap"

i really disagree.

"I bet Obama knows every word of Busta Rhymes’ verse on the “Scenario” remix."

I highly doubt this but there are also way more people his age who haven't bought a rap CD since they bought a Busta Rhymes CD in high school.

Like none of this even scans as "rapping" to me

OK. But it's popular, it's music, and it clearly has its roots in what you would be pleased to call rap. Go ahead and call it something else, but the people who listen to it call it 'rap'. Why argue with them about the name?

xp sounds like half the people buying Oasis tickets

no group funnier than millennials who think music peaked just before the second Strokes record and stopped paying attention around 2008.

"I bet Obama knows every word of Busta Rhymes’ verse on the “Scenario” remix."

I highly doubt this but there are also way more people his age who haven't bought a rap CD since they bought a Busta Rhymes CD in high school.

― scott seward, Monday, 2 September 2024 22:22 (thirty-two minutes ago) link

i'm with scott in that Obama was a 30-year-old lawyer when this song came out. doesn't mean he doesn't like it but he wasn't exactly a teenager when it came out

also the iconic busta verse isn't on the remix, it's on the main version on the low end theory

haha, i wasn't even thinking of how old he is. obama is older than me! hell, i was buying rap CDs long before the first leaders of the new school album.

hell, people obama's age haven't bought a rap album since the first kurtis blow album.

This happens with every genre of music and has since the first people beat on a log or whatever.

― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Monday, September 2, 2024 2:55 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

ah yes, back when music was ana-log. then people started carving flutes out of wood and using their fingures to form different notes. that's when music went digital and it just wasn't the same

*their fingers

I appreciate the effort

Obama probably knows White Lines … as a 1980s law student

Also Gil Scot Heron

when michelle obama was 18 "the message" came out. i loved that song in 1982. you know she bought Thriller, BUT did she buy 1999? i bought 1999 the week it came out. i couldn't get enough of it.

i wonder if she was a hall & oates fan? H20 came out in 1982.

i wonder if Kamala was a Debarge fan...that would be cool.

Poop jokes and butts and fecal imagery make this board virtually unreadable to me. That's mostly why I haven't been around for months. I see a thread title and think it looks intresting but often find it's screen after screen of people going out of their way to make poop references to unrelated topics.

In the sense that any group is a composite of its members, if that's what people like, then that's what it will be. I guess I'm just saying this here because if no one ever expresses a different perspective, there's no counterweight.

Now that we have a hidden text feature … a girl can hope in orbit orm

I must be clicking on the wrong ILM threads (or the right ones?)

yeah, I'm wondering which threads these are, but maybe I don't want to know

ILTMI?

the one board i keep unticked from my SNA list

i made a poop joke on the politics thread! was probably me.

it was a call-back to the major oppo dump era though

"the politics thread"

because there's only one, lol at self

I have no idea what in orbit's talking about

I've probably made some off color references to Trump along those lines, but I don't remember when

xps to io, if you use the zing app you can mute thread titles. Useful for hiding anything you don’t want to see in sna. I haven’t seen the posts you mention though, probably cos I mute on sight?

Tx but I rarely, if ever, use Zing bc typing on a phone is too difficult. And sorry to vaguebook but I didn't want to post specific things bc it seemed unnecessarily pointed/mean. I just wanted to share that as a member who also likes to read & post & be part of things, that is off-putting to me and I never see any pushback (possibly because not contributing to a thread is invisible).

Yeah I hear you