US Politics, August 2024 -- "Unburdened By a Has-Been"

like be excited and vote for her all you want, we aren’t stopping you!

Wanting one ticket to trounce another ticket, a ticket that’s interested in turning back the clock two or three centuries, ain’t street teaming. It’s common sense.

― Marten Broadcloak, mild-mannered GOP congressman (Raymond Cummings), Friday, August 9, 2024 8:25 AM (three seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

specifically the medias just in it for clicks leftists are just jealous of our excitement stuff is what i was referring to, everyone salivating over that tracer post is more understandable, i was certainly happy as fuck when biden dropped out, im still happy about it as a matter of fact

Sorry if that came across as harsh. I think it was a reaction to months of posts.

Also: table I hear you and I get it

to me what’s so exciting about this little window that’s opened isn’t so much that it leads to… kamala harris lol, it’s that it proves nothing is inevitable, that conventional wisdom can be wrong, that all the old guys who tell you you don’t know enough about the realities of politics, all the chaits and carvilles and whatnot, or your dad, or trump, they’re all just a deck of cards, and that’s potentially destabilising to the status quo in all kind of ways we can’t predict. american presidential elections feel so totally ossified compared to the way other countries do it, so it’s just wild when even one brick of the facade gets chipped away and we can see that other ways are not only possible but maybe preferable

agreed that the dems actually getting rid of biden was some miraculous shit, and then picking walz, thats two good moves in a row

if you want some actual water thrown on the fire so far its not looking like kamalas shifting at all from bidens genocide policies, hopefully theyre just treading water figuring out their plan, politically theyve got a needle to thread since theyre allied with israel but a big chunk of their voters are opposed to what israels doing, best would be for there to be a ceasefire, but if thing just keep going as they have been student protests start up in the fall well its not great, and genocide is just bad on its own merits

kamalas response to the protesters at her event was really bad too

she was trying to appear strong/in control. the crowd liked it.

on the news they are saying that frustrated trump wants to bring in kellyanne conway to help him attack kamala. #2016NOOOOOooooooo

it sucked "you want trump to win" is just a shitty unserious response to people protesting an extremely grave and it should be said important to your campaign issue

i mean does she want trump to win

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand) at 7:36 9 Aug 24

to me what’s so exciting about this little window that’s opened isn’t so much that it leads to… kamala harris lol, it’s that it proves nothing is inevitable, that conventional wisdom can be wrong, that all the old guys who tell you you don’t know enough about the realities of politics, all the chaits and carvilles and whatnot, or your dad, or trump, they’re all just a deck of cards, and that’s potentially destabilising to the status quo in all kind of ways we can’t predict. american presidential elections feel so totally ossified compared to the way other countries do it, so it’s just wild when even one brick of the facade gets chipped away and we can see that other ways are not only possible but maybe preferable

I think one of the most important moments in American politics of the last few decades was the election of Jesse Ventura as MN governor, I remember getting to this realization during that election like oh shit this might actually happen, like all these establishment suits on both sides don't get what's going on....you could almost feel this sense in the public of "fuck it let's do it and be legends"

there's a pretty incredible clip of MN AG Keith Ellison early on in the Trump campaign on a morning panel show, they just laugh in his face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkPadFK34o

I thought it sucked, but IIRC she met with Uncommitted/Pal advocates beforehand.

The Uncommitted voters have already moved the dial that bit to the left, which is good. The centrists didn’t get their VP pick and we now won’t be dealing with his multiple pieces of baggage. The I/P ship will, I hope, get turned around but this will happen too slowly for activists. No reason not to keep putting pressure on politicians to achieve this.

good god that Keith Ellison clip

one of the problems with the very very very good recent developments, in which we might just escape the absolute disaster of Trump winning, is that the Harris campaign is likely to remain overwhelmingly focused on building as big of an anti-Trump tent as possible. that's good if it means beating Trump! but also shortchanges us on getting a positive articulation of the Democratic platform.

what would get me excited, in a sustained way past the initial profound RELIEF of these past couple weeks, would be a sense of "oh wow we might actually take both houses or congresses and here's all the shit they're actually going to do with that opportunity!". instead, i fear, we'll get three months of vagueness and "Trump must be stopped at all costs" for fear of alienating any Romney types. and, indeed, Trump must be stopped at all costs! so I get it... it's just a little dispiriting to imagine an endless string of future elections in which a corporate center-right coalition just barely keeps out the fascists every time, while nothing ever gets accomplished.

but it's still early, i agree with everyone saying that. maybe they're just building steam (and very effectively) while getting the policy deck in order. i can imagine a world where a Harris administration actually passes some significant progressive legislation. which is the closest I've had to optimism about US politics in a long time.

I'm not gonna freak out over one bad unplanned moment (the "in a democracy every voice matters, but you should be quiet" part was not great either though), but foreshadowing how every single attempt to affect the platform will be met with "so you want trump to win" on ilx was def dispiriting

yeah im willing to give them time she came off as unprepared there which makes sense since she didnt know she was running for president until very recently

how many lefties protest at trunp rallies

do people do that just askin

thats right i called him trunp

Also known as The Domald

Turnip

i like when she talks about going after price-fixing and i wish she would talk more about how she will help to bring prices down because that is way at the top of a lot of people's concerns. including me! grocery prices are nutso. trump never talks about any normal stuff like that because its beneath him to care about stuff like that.

there were protesters at the trump rally i went to, but it is worth keeping in mind protesters are generally trying to achieve things

What did Ellison say?

people should start saying Junior Vance. or Trump Jr.

he even looks like a Junior.

NM

He’s definitely a large adult son looking for a daddy.

trump is not currently the president so I'm not sure why you'd protest the biden-harris administration's unwavering support for the Israeli genocide at one of his rallies

trump never talks about any normal stuff like that because its beneath him to care about stuff like that.

he does but it comes across as weird because he's inarticulate. his rambling about bacon is a good example

oh yeah the bacon.

the nadir of the baconing trend

I mean, this is all just part of it, right? Our political parties are big, the country is big and diverse, the Democratic Party in particular is big and diverse, and when you throw in the universe of people to left AND center who don't identify as "Democrats" but who tend to find them the lesser-evil option, it's a very very big group. Of course I'd prefer a Democratic candidate promising an arms embargo on Israel and accountability for Israeli war crimes — but I don't expect it, because regardless of any individual candidate's feelings about the issue that's a position that creates more problems politically than it solves in the immediate moment, where the goal is to win the election. You can be mad and sad about that, and I'm both, but I'm mad and sad about a lot of things. What does Harris really think about Israel/Gaza? Probably she thinks it would be awesome if the whole thing just stopped tomorrow and people stopped asking her about it.

You always have to solve the immediate problem next, and the immediate problem is preventing four more years of Trump. To be glad that somebody looks like they're maybe in a position to do that is not to mistake that person for any kind of savior. I can be happy for Trump to get his ass handed to him and also appalled at U.S.-Israeli policy, those aren't contradictory positions, it's not either/or.

One thing I didn't realize until someone pointed it out is that when Kamala said "If you want Trump to win, say that," she was responding directly to what the protestors were chanting, which was "We won't vote for genocide."

I still think it was an error on her part -- there were other ways she could have responded that weren't so dismissive -- but I feel a little better knowing that she was it was a reaction to a specific chant rather than to the general act of protesting.

That said, a lot of Democrats cheering on the moment as an epic clapback don't seem to understand the point of protests.

i think it was a great clapback and i understand protests

the most important thing is to defeat donald trump. he has threatened to start a genocide here in this country. once he is defeated, fucking protest every event and gala and speech until the harris administration listens

Harris is not stupid. She didn't say a word while Biden was twiddling his thumbs thinking about not running. Kept her mouth shut and let the proces work. She had a huge number of VP candidates. She picked a great one. She didn't pick Shapiro whom everyone on the far left was saying would be a non starter. College is going to be starting up soon and the Gaza protests are going to come back, as they should. She is not going to disengage from that--college students need to be a huge part of her coalition.

any tips on what to do when they don't listen?

any tips on what to do when they don't listen?

Keep fighting. Build alliances.

Look at the anti-abortion movement. It spent decades and millions and millions of dollars — aided by an actual outright campaign of domestic terrorism — to finally drive pro-choice Republicans out of the party. It worked, they got rid of Roe v. Wade. Not because Donald Trump gives a shit about abortion, which he clearly doesn't, but because they made it too politically inconvenient for any Republican to not be on board. But the entire time that fight was going on, from the 1970s to the 2010s, the Right-to-Life folks felt constantly belittled, ignored, pandered to but then shafted by a GOP establishment that saw them as kooks but wanted their votes. Eventually they got what they wanted, but only because of nonstop relentless organizing and protesting, they had people outside abortion clinics week in and week out for decades.

I think the pick of Walz over Shapiro was for several reasons, but one was definitely because of Israel/Gaza, which means the pro-Palestinian anti-war protests have already made the issue politically complicated enough to influence major decisions. That's good. It's only an incremental win, but it's still a win. So then you press for more, over and over. It sucks, but it's what works.

it was also a great clapback because that's not what democrats are supposed to do. democrats are the nice ones, right? who let people protest in the middle of a huge rally and are nice and shit. so she was a little mean and people are pissing the bed about it. democrats are supposed to be deferential and unfocused and polite.

I haven't spend ten centuries hearing about "sister souljah moments" to agree with that

Do you think Trump has ever went out, shopped and actually bought a bag of groceries?

I kinda doubt it.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4818724-joe-rogan-supports-rfk-jr-over-trump-harris/

lame recognize lame

There’s no way unless it happened a very long time ago. He also doesn’t laugh or read.

democrats are supposed to be deferential and unfocused and polite.

only towards the right, dems punching left is nothing new and certainly nothing to be celebrated as an epic clapback

Oops xp

I would distinguish that particular clip a little bit from "Dems punching left," because it was as much about crowd management as anything ideological. If you're heading out for three months of nonstop public appearances — any number of which can/will be disrupted by protesters — you have to show you can manage the crowds. It's necessary to look decisive and leaderly and all that, regardless of which particular issue the disruptors are raising.

Which isn't to say Harris isn't punching left or won't, but I think especially as a woman running for executive office you have to show control in that kind of setting.

Rogan endorsing RFK is good news, I would think.

From 2022:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN0gT0kWQAE_9R5?format=jpg&name=large

tipsy otm