US Politics, August 2024 -- "Unburdened By a Has-Been"

If she does the Fox debate and does spectacularly well, flopson, I'll be here to do some cutting-and-pasting with you. Ideally, I hope she does both. I get the no-capitulation argument, and Harris's press release is good, but I just can't see him not looking comparatively foolish in any debate context.

This was a good point, though:

8 years ago, doing a debate in front of a packed arena of jeering idiots who interjected constantly was unimaginable. then trump entered us politics.

It's unfortunate Trump has managed to sometimes make me forget how things operated before he came along.

cant see harris agreeing to a weird format trump debate, maybe theyll agree on something more normal idk

unfortunately i can't make my case based on her own record in the 2019-20 primary debates, since she arguably won the first debate (slamming biden on busing) but badly lost the second (got lost in the weeds litigating the cockamamie version of m4a she was pretending to support versus the public option biden never actually tried to pass). but i think my optimism is a combination of (1) feeling that she's levelled up as a public speaker, and (2) the 2020 dem primary highlighted a lot of her weaknesses

Just to correct myself above, I think the "packed arena of jeering idiots" started in 2012 with Gingrich, that debate where he turned on John King. Trump seemed to feed of off that four years later.

If she doesn't agree to the Fox debate, the Dems can spend their whole convention making fun of Trump for chickening out of the ABC debate

don't know how much that would be worth in votes, but it would be a good time for everyone involved

in the entire history of the universe, not a single person has gained any advantage from conceding or agreeing to anything proposed by convicted rapist Donald J Trump. utter rejection is the only legitimate response.

Harris and Trump held events in the exact same venue five days apart:

Sad, @realdonaldtrump pic.twitter.com/H7O3GDr6nF

— Kamala HQ (@KamalaHQ) August 4, 2024

nice

She’s not going to agree with a Fox debate, please. No point to it, and the only people who would care about her not bothering are their own audience.

indeed. why would anyone agree to do a debate at a trump rally? even if you theoretically kick his ass, the crowd will bury you and the press will run with that

in other news, nate silver thinks shapiro should be the VP choice, which *should* be the nail in that coffin

ha perfect

VP Pete can do the Fox debate.

nate silver likes him, fetterman hates him

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/03/fetterman-shapiro-harris-vp-00172557

well now i'm torn

With much help from a friend, I took the first Harris ad and we replaced Beyoncé with the Bobby Fuller song I mentioned the other day. Bias aside, I think this is much better and does a better job of conveying the excitement around her campaign (and the possibility of a female president).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Jkxd7Hi3w

…I’m sorry, I just want to take in the fact that in order to celebrate said possibility of a female president, you replaced a song by one of the two most iconic pop culture singers of this century, not to mention the one who is Black and already very much a notable supporter of Harris, with a song by an old dead white guy, however much of a righteous performer he was. Back THEN.

You can’t evaluate Lichtman’s model since the majority of features are subjective. It’s no different than tarot where only the cartomancer can read the cards. It’s anti-scientific flim-flam.

― Allen (etaeoe), Saturday, August 3, 2024 2:26 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this. I was going to say astrology, but tarot is probably better. a lot of people do seem to like astrology though!

Oh my goodness...I think it's a better song! As soon as I heard it off my friend's mix-CD the other day, it just intuitively made me think of the election. I'm not really thinking of anything except the way the music hits me.

i love bobby fuller.

I guess "I Fought The Law" wouldn't make much sense for her.

I'm a couple months from my 70th birthday, so I should be right in the appropriate age range for it, but I hate to break this to you. Your valiant efforts at improving Kamala's ad via Bobby Fuller's 'Let Her Dance' did not better convey to me the excitement around her campaign. The song is good, but the jangly Stratocaster sound dates it so badly it seems far distant from today or any contemporary ideas, issues or concerns. That sound was already ancient when Grease was released in the 1980s.

Late seventies but yes. (The sequel was 1982 or so.)

I've never heard that Bobby Fuller song before, but uh ... it does not sound nearly as powerful as the Beyonce song, and the sentiment of "let her dance" feels vaguely condescending when applied to the vice president of the United States. Not to mention it puts the focus entirely on the candidate's identity rather than what her election would mean for voters. (The Democratic strategist Anat Shenker-Osorio has critiqued "I'm with her" for the same reason and cautioned against it being repurposed this year.)

Aimless, that's a little bit easier for me to address. It doesn't sound dated to me at all--I still hear it as a perfect pop song. I mean, I realize this is a personal thing, and that it wouldn't be anything you'd seriously use in 2024, but it doesn't sound any more dated to me than anything I love from the '50s or '60s or five years ago. I either still love a piece of music or I don't.

Also what Aimless said. I'm 45 and it just screams "oldies" to me.

No one will dispute that it's a good pop song, only that it doesn't improve the ad's ability to convey a powerful and effective political message. I'd give the song a 92 if I were on American Bandstand!

Fair enough. I liked the original ad, and said so on this thread, I just found the song ordinary (understanding the immense cultural reach of Beyonce). For me, the Bobby Fuller song is a more imaginative, less literal way to express the idea of freedom. Not for everyone, clearly.

Old white guys for Kamala. C'mon, Jack!

I'm 58 and and the dead white guy soundtrack replacement was an abomination.

There is something jarring about it, possibly that the song sounds like it belongs in a commercial for a family SUV.

lol this thread has gone somewhere unexpected

Have to wait until she names a VP to use this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvSCkn3WFT0

I like the Bobby Fuller song much better but yeah that is not the right place for it

Save this one for the Olivia Chow campaign, or Doug Ford perhaps.

Let Her Dance is a terrible message for hopefully the first female president - no one is letting her do anything.

well, if enough people vote for her then they are "letting her" become president. sorta. and then she can....dance? ON PUTIN'S GRAVE!!!

Is [pop star] a feminist? Is Mastercard a queer ally? Is this TV show my friend?

the one thing about using Beyonce is...and i like Beyonce...okay i like looking at Beyonce cuz she so fiiiiiine her albums are way too friggin' long for me though what am i in civics class or some shit like that...anyway, the whole Harris thing is about NOT GOING BACK and it makes me think...then maybe your theme song doesn't have to be by a corny-ass billionaire. we're trying to get rid of one! BUT THAT'S JUST ME. i don't know what ultra-modern forward-thinking hopeful anthem you would use instead. "Freedom" when i hear it in the arenas sounds a little clunky and actually sounds better in the ad. to me. and, to be fair, "Freedom" does contain a sample from a 1969 boomer psych rock song. from Mexico. i do think its a pretty bold choice given that i think of it as a song specifically about black freedom and now it is meant to be about all people's freedom in the way that the Harris campaign uses it.

i'm just more of an en vogue fan and i like their freedom song way more.

wait can someone make me a fan video of the harris ad using "free your mind" please. thx.

its time for the harris campaign to seize the moment and lead us into a bold new en vouge renaissance

The Bobby Fuller song starts off with a line about a “love affair.” Probably something the campaign would want to avoid.

i don't know what ultra-modern forward-thinking hopeful anthem you would use instead

"Hold Your Head Up" by Argent

I guess "I Fought The Law" wouldn't make much sense for her.

Trump can play this one at his defeat party

"its time for the harris campaign to seize the moment and lead us into a bold new en vouge renaissance"

its gen z 90s kitsch. all the rage on tiktok. (probably.)

she should try and use "femininomenon" tbh

but i mean a beyonce song is like yeah duhhhh

if she picks pete than let's hear "woman's world" by katy perry lmao

galaxy brain, she should pick beyonce for vp, guaranteed win

I guess "I Fought The Law" wouldn't make much sense for her.

― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, August 3, 2024 11:04 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Legit lol, milo