Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

when people really get into the weeds about Trump's oddness I actually kinda think of the Dilbert guy who wrote a lot about Trump's "persuasion abilities" and the way he "hypnotizes people", back when everyone thought he was a joke. obviously the Dilbert dude is a moron but I think there's something to this. not in the way he frames it, implying it's a conscious and calculated thing he's doing, or that he even studies this stuff at all. I think Trump is as dumb as he appears to be. but he has gotten to live a life that virtually nobody in history gets to live. I mean he was born with incredible privilege and used it to enter a world built from the ground up to benefit guys like him. he never had any need to learn empathy or how to be nice or even how to have a normal human conversation. he has no friends, he knows nothing about his family, in fact I actually believe him when he says he's never drank, he never had the need to socialize. thats why when they have him on like these UFC streams or whatever he just says shit like "oh I like the strong men, but you gotta watch out for the fast guys, oooh yeah it's fun when they beat the hell out of each other"

basically I think his every interaction is framed through the lens of "how do I get this person to do what I want", and every time he answers a question the only thing he thinks is "what does this person want to hear". he can't turn it off, this is how he always speaks. he was born into a system where guys like him can't fail. he maybe isn't even consciously trying to con people it's just the way the neural pathways in his brain developed. he naturally phrases things in the way that gives him the pellet most often. most people don't fall for it, I mean Donald Trump may be one of the most unpopular people in human history, but his bullshit works here, because this is the system that produced a guy like him. it's a useful skill when you're trying to con a mark, and the Republican party is full of marks, thanks to the likes of Mitch McConnell turning every Republican position into something logically untenable. there's so much time and effort tring to understand what makes Republican voters "tick" but I think it's really just this. probably a very direct coorelation between how likely a person is to get scammed and how likely that person is to vote Trump. I mean didn't the Dilbert guy give 15 grand to camgirls or something?

sorry, maybe this is obvious to everyone else. I think Elon Musk is the same way btw

i think that's partially right, in that our system is designed to reward people who have money with ever-more money. trump is absolutely a sociopath for whom 'winning' is such a core concept that he cannot accept any other reality and would rather blow up the world than admit it. but he does, aided by the media for 40 years, have presence

there are a thousand guys like elon; he's just the one who happened to win out. what he has in common with trump is mostly an ability to manipulate court proceedings

Those are good analyses. I think you also gotta figure in his having been mentored by/having spent significant time in close proximity to dad Fred, Roy Cohn, and Roger Stone, along with his application of Norman Vincent Peale's stuff in a most warped fashion.

His sister, U.S. Court of Appeals Judge Maryanne Trump Barry said of him:

"All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. His goddamned tweeting and lying... oh my god. I'm talking too freely, but you know. The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy shit. [...] It's the phoniness of it all. It's the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel." She added that he did not read books and had someone take the college entrance exam in his place. In the recordings, Barry also criticized her brother's family separation policy and the bankruptcies of his businesses, adding that "you can't trust him".

I think all of the above is true, and coincided with the rise of ad-supported, algorithmic social media as alternate news sources in a period of unrestrained consolidation in media and broadband. A perfect petri dish for spreading misinformation in various rabbit holes and echo chambers.

del otm. The key thing is that he grew up in the weird confluence of high fliers and grubby street fighting that is New York metro area real estate development. He grew up around mobsters and money launderers. Their principles are his principles.

This also explains the Jersey City supper club demeanor, the schticky glad-handing, the boasting - all of it.

What is interesting is that his sister also grew up that way and was merely a corruptish Federal Court of Appeals Judge, not the full-on sociopath. Maybe a bit of patriarchy as well.

Rereading her bio, she went way back with Alito and Roy Cohn so I take that back. Maybe just more of a veneer.

"he was born into a system where guys like him can't fail."

he has a pretty profound fear of failure though. more than most people. which is why he can never accept losing anything. he's very insecure. a lot of people like him are. and he wants everyone to love him and he is someone who will go to his grave not understanding why everyone didn't love him. like his supporters, he's fear-based. but, yeah, he's also just mean. and likes to laugh at people.
there were so many public things that Presidents do that he didn't do because i think he knew he would be booed and i always wondered how he really felt about that. not going to sports stuff other than the army/navy game where they aren't allowed to boo him. being the only President to not do the correspondent's dinner because he knew people would laugh at him. only appearing in front of Maga crowds. doing Maga rallies as president just to get that dopamine rush again. the Trumps really did live as dictators. tightly controlled. very few public opportunities for people to confront them in person. Melania was the perfect dictator's wife. Silent and unseen for the most part.

Nice insights, I never put all that together.

it's why the debates are such a good opportunity. get obama out there provoking him (yes, too soon)

"Proceed, Mr. Trump."

oh I think that's totally true, just saying because the system is what it is it's given him a sense of 'expertise' which essentially boils down to figuring out how to get away with shit. so his 'strategy' of just not paying people, or inflating/deflating your assets for tax/loan reasons - that's what 'business' is to him, the idea of actually providing a valuable product or service never really factors in. so yes he's successful in some sense but he's a success in a way that can't really be replicated because too many guys like him brings the whole system down. like you can't have a world where everyone's just stiffing contractors left and right, but a few people can get away with it if they're willing to be total parasites.

but yeah his fear of failure, or fear of being seen as a failure, is really unlike any other public figure I've ever seen. entrepreneurs usually love to talk about their failures, because then they can talk about how they overcame them. they want to be seen as people who encounter problems and obstacles just like everyone else, but they can solve them because they're just smarter and more innovative. they want to project the image of a person who could find a way to be successful anywhere. I don't think Trump ever really has thoughts like that because he doesn't understand why you'd ever want to identify with someone on a human level.

I remember some comedians talking about that after they'd done that Comedy Central roast of him a while ago - they present whoever they're "roasting" with a list of subjects they might poke fun of, and they can say such-and-such is off-limits. one of those subjects was his horniness for his own daughter, which was the thing they all expected him to zero in on, but apparently he was fine with that, the only thing he said you couldn't poke fun of was the idea that he was inflating his net worth.

I mean

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/trump-files-when-trump-called-donald-jr-a-loser/

Seven o’clock in the morning, I’m going to school—hugs, kisses, and he used to say a couple things. ‘No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.’ I think a great lesson for any kid. But then he followed up with: ‘Don’t. Trust. Anyone. Ever.’ And, you know, he’d follow it up two seconds later with, ‘So, do you trust me?’ I’d say, ‘Of course, you’re my dad.’ He’d say, ‘What did I just—’ You know, he thought I was a total failure. He goes, ‘My son’s a loser, I guess.’ Because I couldn’t even understand what he meant at the time. I mean, it’s not something you tell a four-year-old, right? But it really means something to him.”

Seven o’clock in the morning, I’m going to school

lol at this alone tbh

‘Don’t. Trust. Anyone. Ever.’

What a bleak view of human nature. He can’t accept people doing things out of service to others with no reward wanted. He thinks that they’re grifting somehow, because that’s exactly what he’d do.

it's how he was raised probably - (which doesn't absolve him of anything)

It does seem likely that no one wanted anything to do with Trump unless they thought they could get something out of it

xp it is also really damaging for a four year old to be told not trust their parent. at that age, they need a secure attachment to caregivers in order to thrive.

Yes, it was interesting raising a child in the Trump years and having to tell them to absolutely not act the President does

don't trust anybody, except me, especially not me, but yes i'm trustworthy, but don't trust anybody, especially not me, but you can trust me because I'm a straight-shooter

Proceed, Mr. Trump."

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 5, 2024 8:58 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

💯

‘No smoking, no drinking, no drugs.’

I mean, it’s not something you tell a four-year-old, right?

No Santa Claus

I mean, very clearly the "no drugs" part didn't stick with Junior.

xp it is also really damaging for a four year old to be told not trust their parent. at that age, they need a secure attachment to caregivers in order to thrive.

― treeship., Wednesday, June 5, 2024 11:13 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I kinda have to give it up to Trump for, in this instance at least, owning the fact that he's a total, irredeemable piece of shit. Some of us have to learn the hard way that we can't trust our parents, so...respect!

I'm leaning towards "dud

do you still trust your father? at this age, it's marginal, right?

Is there video of that quote? If so please run an ad with it

He’d gain votes from that
His one shining moment

Well Woodie Guthrie did write a song about Trump’s dad being a total sh1thead.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:zltqtmydso6kikzw7wafpj4p/bafkreiay6ga2kmgipus4jj42behdkjm3gznngdvsdz4uwhadna35mkmvxy@jpeg

he's also just mean. and likes to laugh at people . . .
Woodie Guthrie did write a song about Trump’s dad being a total sh1thead

being mean and enjoying laughing at people is part and parcel of how the shithead's scion and his base have barely any interiority whatsoever and are so shallow and materialistic it's pretty challenging imho for those of us who value "culture" enough to be able to follow the average ILXor thread to really relate to. like these are the shallowest of the shallow -- money and appearance are everything: poetry, art, music, philosophy, etc. are coping mechanisms for losers. we need a wealth tax in this country yesterday so that your typical calvinist domininionist evangelical prosperity gospel "christian" isn't so warped and easily manipulated by images of outrageous fortunes

https://bsky.app/profile/jbouie.bsky.social/post/3ku6zighbrs2w

just hearing about Burgum now. he looks like a vhs action movie bad guy.

Or the “mysterious rich dickhead” in a 90s movie

SNL must have Henry Winkler on call in case Trump picks Burgum

Hell yeah

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bfhs/genealogy/MY%20PICS/doug%20burgum.jpg

(from when he worked at Microsoft in the early 2000s: https://web.archive.org/web/20010611125238/https://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/burgum/default.asp)

Oh my god PLEASE let him pick Rubio please please please

VP debate where Kamala Harris asks him if he’s thirsty and offers him some water after every question NOW

I would be very happy if this happened.

someone mentioned my fave scenario in the bluesky replies: compelling Rubio to move out of Florida and then not picking him

godfuckingdammit

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/trump-georgia-election-fani-willis-disqualification-appeal-pending

Ugh

Doug Burzum

^^^ what I always think of when I hear that guy's name

you could see that GA thing coming a mile away without having to squint. any delay is good for Trump and any excuse to delay further is a good excuse. you'd think the gravity of the charges weighed against the fact Trump could be guilty but could also become president again would argue for promptitude from the courts. but nope, not no way.

getting pretty tired of all this wriggling tbh

fucker doesn't even have to bother wriggling, laws deform around him

his appeal is pure hindbrain limbic system shit. "that is the powerful one so i gotta meld w/ him for safety" and it's not far wrong, who could ever get away with what he gets away with?

i reckon the spell won't be broken until he has a sobbing sniveling breakdown on camera

or publicly shits himself, that might work too

more Presidents should shit themselves, deep state is the one requiring 'bathrooms' which are anti-blue collar worker