The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

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dirty mop water

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

are you guys talking about the death star?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

i love the death star!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

I'm baffled that lurker cannot posit any difference between wanting to STOP abuse and wanting to HARM the abuser.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

dude stop turning this thread into this weird psychological bullying I'm going to describe a bunch of violent encounters in vivid detail until you all admit your secret desire for revenge. wtf? I know it's not the most ontopic thread but it's a gun control debate thread.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

but the death star is full of robots, aren't robots clean? is Grand Moff Tarkin that messy?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

either this whole thing just achieved a new level of irony I was not prepared to comprehend or lurker is genuinely trying to be funny

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'm baffled that lurker cannot posit any difference between wanting to STOP abuse and wanting to HARM the abuser.

Of course there's a difference! The former's a lot healthier than the latter, but normal people feel both.

Jesus, enough of this. Please, let's just stop, OK?

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

The former's a lot healthier than the latter, but normal people feel both.

define "normal" please. actually, wait, don't.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

increase the peace

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I really don't think it "came out of nowhere."

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

"race and rape stuff came out of nowhere" = me saying is there anyone in the world who you'd say, yes, it's OK for them to want to do this?

how about we make a deal. i will describe, in specific and vivid creative writing major detail (because that is apparently what is a-ok with nabisco and jaymc, the creepy police), what i would theoretically like to do to you for sitting here destroying the entire thread with lurid posts about rape and torture, if i was someone who actually identified with your position. then, you have won, and you will leave the thread. will this make you happy?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

hi jaymc and [nabisco], i actually never want to speak to either of you again.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

the robots have little tires and the tire rubber picks up dust from the air and redeposits it (along with some rubber) on the floors

so other robots have to come by behind them and mop it up once in a while

then you got to recycle the dirty mop water, but first it drains through the floor grate and ends up in the trash room

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

BYE NEVER MIND THIS THREAD

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

man, the engineering on that thing....breathtaking

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

[Removed Illegal Image]

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

The former's a lot healthier than the latter, but normal people feel both.

I guess I'm glad I'm not normal then.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

and cyclopean hair-snakes feed off the wood chips and the tire rubber in the mop water

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

what I meant by "came out of nowhere" was that he didn't refer to racial hate crime or rape being involved in the encounter as he first described it. no one else said anything about how such a revenge fantasy would be "okay" if he were defending a rape victim/racial minority; he just put that out there in this defensive way and the fact that defending victims of rape came up several times made it seem like there was a vicarious charge to invoking rape.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

ahhhhh the wiley woodchip hairsnake

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Why are people so against revenge??! Do not get. I want to karate chop creepy/hateful men all the time, altho disclaimer, I have never been the target of ACTUAL violence, only the suggested kind.

― Laurel, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

cuz its pointless and just spreads the grief around in a never-ending cycle of recrimination...?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

Horseshoe, I'm sorry, I think we're just reading it in a completely different way.

Once again on ILX, empathizing with human weakness wins me enemies.

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

there is a big, fat, mile-wide line (in my mind) between wanting to kick don rumsfeld in the nuts once and wanting don rumsfled to call me "sir" and beg for mercy

that's really not the case with a lot of people here which doesn't make me want to kick them in the nuts so much as it makes me just a little more fundamentally depressed about the human race and our greatest invention "language"

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

I understand that the hypothetical situations were grotesque, but I did not read his initial posts as anything other than an attempt to justify his position. Unfortunately, a lot of people pull a nazi to support an argument. I'm not defending the dude on every point.

waaay xpost

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

human weakness has nothing to do with a propensity for degrading other people and a desire to share that with everybody on the goddamn internet in a discussion of GUN KONTROL

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

sex_machine.jpg x10000000000000000 cut it out

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

Horseshoe, I'm sorry my post came off that way. It wasn't meant to. I was -- as I said before, and will say again -- trying to find some scenario under which everyone would acknowledge that elaborate fantasies of revenge are justified, or at least human. Even if carrying them out would be a Very Bad Idea that would, as Shakey Mo said, would "spread the grief around in a never-ending cycle of recrimination".

(xpost)

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

Once again on ILX, empathizing with human weakness wins me enemies.

-- jaymc, Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:04 PM (3 minutes ago)

you mean like the human weakness of people being threatened and pistol-whipped by lurker #2421??

― and what, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

trying to find some scenario under which everyone would acknowledge that elaborate fantasies of revenge are justified, or at least human

and you failed miserably, managing to infuriate and nauseate a lot of "humans"

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

Tombot, guns are used to degrade people. That's what they do: they turn a person into a piece of meat, a thing. If you've ever wanted to shoot someone, even for a split second, then you've wanted to degrade them.

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

I have no clue why the fuck I'm talking to you.

and what 8080 thank you gbye

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

interesting gun violence statistic on the BBC yesterday

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42811000/gif/_42811311_firearms_deaths3_203gr.gif

― moonship journey to baja, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

man the killfile

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

s africa has the highest murder rate in the world, i believe?

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

anyone find a description of south africa's gun laws?

― deej, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

it takes skill to ruin a thread not even Roger could kill

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_South_Africa

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

our rate is 30x that of the UK, but by our own admission, only 6x that of germany or SWITZERLAND. does the britishes spend a lot of time discussing "the culture of violence" in germany?

― moonship journey to baja, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

did you know finland has the 2nd highest rate of firearm homicide in people aged 15-26 in a survey of 25 industrialized nations including the US? (.5 in 100000, compared to ~1.5 in 100000 for the US)

― moonship journey to baja, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:17 (nineteen years ago)

Gun-related deaths per 100,000 people:

U.S.A. 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Argentina 8.93
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Israel 2.91
Australia 2.65
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
England and Wales 0.41
Japan 0.05

our gun-related death rate is only 3x as high as finland, whereas by anyone's admission, there are at least like 100x more guns floating around ... is it really down to a "culture of violence"?

or is it just down to high-risk behavior due to the fact that at the end of the day, the levels of income disparity and the decay / nonexistence of the social fabric here make america more of a 3rd world nation than a 1st world nation?

― moonship journey to baja, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,,2061247,00.html

― admrl, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:38 (nineteen years ago)

AFAIK In Switzerland nearly everyone has guns! and bomb shelters! And although a lot of people just use their bomb shelters as storage cellars there's apparently a large number of survivalist types who still keep them stocked & in readiness. I'm pretty sure that gun use is taught as part of mandatory national service, too. So I suppose the question is whether the gun-death rate in CH is surprisingly high given that people are actually taught to use guns (also the fact that it is chocolate-box switzerland), or surprisingly low given the number of guns there are.

I'm really surprised by how low the england-wales number is! I don't think of gun crime as being some rare thing, maybe that's from constant exposure to scaremonger news stories. Perhaps our knife crime stats more than make up for it though.

― c sharp major, Thursday, 19 April 2007 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

As I've said elsewhere, despite figures like these I feel exponentially safer out at night in SF, LA, NYC or Chicago than I ever did in London. We may not have as many guns but there is a serious feeling of tension and aggro in many places in and around Central London. I admit to sometimes enjoying that "edginess", it's part of what makes it such a great city, but on the occasion where myself or a friend has fallen victim to violence it is predictably unsettling.

― admrl, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

^^^^^ I agree with adam (though my exposure to LDN is somewhat limited). I felt a little edgier walking around C1itheroe, Lanc, than I did in some of the rougher parts of Chi, simply because, if my cousin is any indication, casual violence is a bit more common in England (ie - bar fights, muggings, being in the wrong neighborhood, whatever)

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

Absolutely, never rock up in Clitheroe without a glock on your waistline.

― admrl, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

haha, srsly, though, i get more "long hard looks" in Clitheroe from the local dudes than i've ever gotten anywhere in my life

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

also vahid is pretty otm up and down here, guys

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

Perhaps you have the look of a Accringtonian about you. That's like a red rag to a bull.

xp

― admrl, Thursday, 19 April 2007 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

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