Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

i feel like there would be a way to frame that argument that would be more accurate, something around mainstream movies getting a lot more sexless, audiences getting more puritanical, and sweeney's popularity being a rebuke to that, but obviously that argument doesn't allow you to dunk on the libs or promote classical aryan beauty or whatever, and it's still not a particularly interesting or good argument

man I forgot that wokeness ended masturbating

those SJWs on the semen retention subreddit told me I'm not allowed to like big jugs

yeah, regarding that particular actress, I've heard a reference to 'boobs are back' which implies they weren't 'in' for awhile, I guess because of wokeness

there is something going on about whiteness and fertility I feel but I haven't really mapped it out

the milk thing is relevant to this too

hard to overstate how much WAP by Megan Thee Stallion broke some people's brains

Because the woke left on Twitter is now just a straw man the right construct for their own audience, they have no interest in what actual left wing people think or what their reasons are, they are only interested in what libsoftiktok can cherrypick, and they won't even really engage with that.

Washington Times: "Cum is Back"

man I forgot that wokeness ended masturbating

was actually the Proud Boys iirc

are boobs really back though, i won't be convinced until i hear someone growl "HONKA HONKA" in public

before 2024 you couldn’t be attracted by boobs because black people might see you do it

weren't they getting real weird about Taylor Swift and how she was like the ideal tradwife specimen

Gas, grass, or ass, he kindly stopped for me

I heard Justin Timberlake on the radio today, sexy must be back again.

I nearly posted Syndey Sweeney on the ws of shame thread. not because I was ashamed of being attracted to a real with bona fide cannons but rather because the entire act of finding someone attractive is shameful these days (because of wokeness)

you would

I wasn't sure who she was, so I googled.

Then I immediately gouged my eyes out.

gougled

I heard Justin Timberlake on the radio today, sexy must be back again.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 19 March 2024 20:39 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

tipsy, as always, this was good posting

they switched tactics. at first Sydney Sweeney was woke, and now she’s a rebuke to wokeness. makes u think

Now just need a HIMS ad campaign about getting "woke" and we can put this thing to bed.

(ty deems)

i've recently been watching some more of the Trope Talk videos by Overly Sarcastic Productions. Something I've been thinking a lot is a video Red made a long time ago... like, seven years ago... about "Manly Men!" One of the things Red talks about that's stuck with me is that traditionally, "manly men" in media have been ladies' men. The women love them. Can't get enough of them. I guess kind of the equivalent would be, like, the old Harem Anime trope where the most mid guy ever has all hottest, most amazing women completely jonesing for him. And Red says lately (as of 2017), that's not so much how manly men are portrayed. Instead, manly men are portrayed as not "getting" women, as being confused and unable to talk to us.

I used to kind of feel that way about girls. Didn't know how to talk to girls. Didn't imagine I had anything to offer girls. Had really low self-esteem. The problem, though, wasn't that I didn't understand _girls_ - it was that I didn't understand _myself_. Like don't get me wrong talking to girls is hard. I still don't know how to talk to girls. I mean I'm a lesbian, not knowing how to talk to girls is just lesbian culture. Which maybe is kind of the thing that's different? Like I'm insecure, but there are plenty of women who _do_ want me. There are plenty of women who think I'm hot, who find me attractive. The question isn't whether or not a girl wants _me_, but whether or not I want to be intimate with _her_. I'm not an involuntary _anything_. I have agency in my own love life.

And this isn't... I mean, women face our own kind of version of this, which is the idea that we should take whatever we can get and be happy with it. That if somebody wants us, it's ungrateful or rude to say "no". For me, saying "no" to a guy is every bit as hard as asking a girl if she wants to get intimate with me. Like, every bit as hard in a directly correlated way. The better I am at one, the better I am at the other.

-

I guess what Red's video kind of says to me is... there's been a sea change in the way patriarchy models masculinity to men. For whatever reason, the model is no longer someone with a somewhat exaggerated sense of his own attractiveness, someone who doesn't necessarily know how to take "no" for an answer. It's someone who has an exaggeratedly poor sense of his own attractiveness. We've gone from "every man is James Bond" to "acting like James Bond in real life will lead to women rejecting you as a misogynist creep". The latter is more accurate, for sure. Acting like James Bond in real life _will_ lead to that outcome. Because James Bond is a misogynist creep, and always has been.

There's this new "harem" anime out. I haven't seen it, but Geoff Thew talks it up a lot. It's called "The 100 Girlfriends Who Really, Really, Really, Really, REALLY Love You." (Anime these days tend to have overly long titles like that.) It starts out with this guy who has fallen for, and been rejected by, 100 different women. I mean if there's such a thing as an "incel", this guy probably qualifies. That bit's important because the story engine is that there are now 100 fantastic women who all really x5 love protag, and he can't reject any of them or they will DIE. Because magic.

That sounds like a pretty dumb setup, but the way Thew tells it, it works anyway. Because first off, the protag _does_, in fact, genuinely love all the women in question? It's reciprocal. Every one of these women, she's into him, he's into her. Second off, Thew says, the protag is someone who has positive qualities. He's genuinely likeable. It's not wildly implausible that any one of these particular girls would find him attractive.

I guess I understand why there aren't more characters like that. A character like that is hard to write for. Thew also says that every single one of the 100 women has their own personalities and rich, complex interactions not just with the protag, but with each other. I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

The premise of the show is, of course, an absurd fantasy. To me, the thing that makes it absurd is that they somehow manage to make a 101-person polycule work. I do like this about the show as well, BTW - cuts past the whole stupid "WHICH ONE WILL HE CHOOSE" drama by just acknowledging that poly is a thing that exists and can work. Which is true. Just, like. Not a 101-person polycule. Polycule drama scales logarithmically based on the number of members.

What isn't implausible, I don't think, is how easily the women fall for him. I am attracted to men, and I will say that I absolutely am that fucking easy. (I mean, at least until you get to the "so, uh, what do you want to do" part of the discussion, at which point things get extremely difficult extremely quickly.) I don't demand a six-pack or a six figure income. Just, like. Treat me with some basic respect and take me seriously if I say "no". I sort of grew up thinking that a guy had to be exceptional for any woman to want him, you know, an "alpha" or whatever. I'm kind of shocked that I ever believed anything so patently ridiculous and stupid. I did, though, and so I don't blame anybody else for believing it. I'd just like there to be more folks who get the opportunity to figure that out without having to start taking estrogen first.

I'm so relieved leering at women is cool again

The women of Montana look down on me.

(From their gigantic pickup trucks.)

every time i've peeped the driver of one of those huge ass gmc or dodge trucks lately it's been a woman

what i really don't understand is how anyone affords a $150k truck, but fate has doomed me to only know the ways of poverty afaict

what have i come to? i want a truck. a 2012 tacoma or something. even though they are definitely less practical than a subaru.

The most Texas thing I saw driving around Houston years ago was a 60-something woman with white hair driving a huge shiny gold pickup truck at high velocity, with a bumper sticker that said "I'm out of estrogen and I have a gun."

i saw someone driving a truck that said DODEG in black letters on the back recently and I kept wondering if someone stole the letters off the truck and they bought replacements and fucked it up or if there's a such thing as a bootleg truck

Small trucks rule but the current generation are either as big as old full-size trucks or built on car platforms and less cool.

I saw a Ford Maverick the other day that looks pretty reasonable

I had one of those little Nissan pickups in the '90s, they were a perfect size.

The most Texas thing I saw driving around Houston years ago was a 60-something woman with white hair driving a huge shiny gold pickup truck at high velocity, with a bumper sticker that said "I'm out of estrogen and I have a gun."

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra)

that bumper sticker never fails to tickle me for some reason

Back in the late 80s, I had a Toyota pickup . . . I think they called it the T-100? Anyway, it was great to drive. The only downside was that I got asked to help friends move. Like, a lot.

Oh, and it handled like a toboggan in snow.

I liked helping friends move. It felt so useful! "Why yes, I have a truck." I'd much rather move other people's stuff than my own. But also I was in my 20s, pizza and beer was plenty of enticement.

I actually didn't mind it very much. Or at all, really. Most of the time.

My wife would love one of those little 90s pickups, but the monstrosities they make now terrify her.

They terrify me on the road every day. The kind of rolling masculinity we need less of amirite.

i had a t-100 back in the day but the first time the radio asked me "have you seen this boy" i got rid

out here monster pickups are, like, this really expensive form of flagging. you can tell who the fascists are because they're all driving bright shiny pickups with "88" stickers or something on the back.

...though maybe they're just grand pianists

When it pours in Florida, as it often does, flooding's a problem, and there's no getting around the fact that trucks help; but trucks existed before behemoths like F-150s, and they didn't come with Blue Lives Matter stickers.

lol deems

i will hasten to add that not all pickup trucks are driven by fascists. there's a pickup truck down the street from me with a sticker of a cowboy saying

YEE HAW
FUCK THE LAW

around here at least that's pretty clearly Not Fascist

me personally i listen to classical music, which is popular with fascists, but i do put in the work to make it clear that i am not, personally, a fascist.

it's pretty interesting. it definitely is true that if you're a cishet white guy, a lot of people are going to be scared of you. and cishet white guys, i mean, they're on this whole "that's not fair!" thing, like they're not being respected as individuals. i mean i genuinely think they got the right to feel that way. people get to feel how they feel. i mean it's _not_ fair. from my perspective it's tempting to look at it and say "yeah everybody else gets stereotyped on their race and/or gender, there's no reason you should be an exception", and i also feel like that's... not helpful. like when i first came out and transitioned and there's all this misogyny everywhere and i talk about how it sucks and cis women would just sigh and say "welcome to being a woman". like it's legit to be upset at misogyny. it's legit to be upset at patriarchy. and i say patriarchy specifically because patriarchy is the reason cishet white guys are getting stereotyped. they're pushing this narrative that _requires_ cishet white guys to be toxic, to be Alpha Males, or else they're not real men, they're putting all this pressure to conform, and it's bullshit but a lot of guys don't have access to alternative messaging. i can sit here and say that it's easy, it _looks_ easy to me, but the fact is that i wasn't able to do that before i transitioned. it literally did take me transitioning and getting treated like a woman all of a sudden to really understand a lot of things about why cishet white men get treated the way they do.

anyway yeah it's not fair that people distrust guys, that women often cross the street when we're alone and a guy walks in our direction. and. and, getting mad about it and saying "that's not fair" isn't... i mean of course. if someone's angry and resentful, particularly if their response is to be angry and resentful at _me_ for not trusting them, that's not going to make me trust them.

that's not the bit that's interesting to me, y'all have heard it a million times. it's really easy to talk about how a lot of guys get it wrong. what's interesting to me are the _positive_ role models, the people who get it right. like one of my friends, they got a dad, and he's a cishet white guy. big guy. intimidating. people do get nervous around him, do get intimidated. and that's why he dyes his hair blue. well also he dyes his hair blue because he likes it, because that's what he wants to do. people doing things they don't want to just so other people won't be scared of them, that sucks and i don't recommend it, though i also don't judge people if they feel the need to do that. that helps, my friend tells me. people are less scared of him and trust him more.

it's things like that. just those little things. it encourages me when i see guys doing things like that. it's difficult and it's rare but i appreciate it.

omg this thread

Kyle Kinane has a great bit about raised truck guys always gendering their trucks as "she" even after they hang truck nuts from it. He finally concludes that a raised truck is sometimes useful and the guys driving them aren't as easily stereotyped as he had thought.

Swen, you might like this thread, which took a very different direction: maleness