U.S. Supreme Court: Post-Ginsburg Edition

The article I read said this is mostly about scheduling. Smith is trying to get the court to rule quickly to keep the May 2024 trial date. It is unlikely the trial could go forward by May 2024 if Smith had to wait for this to work it's way to the Court of Appeals (the normal channel) before going to the Supreme Court.

Bush v Gore in 2000 suggests to me this ruling against Trump isn't a slam dunk to be upheld by the SCOTUS

Trial date is March, not May.

Even more so then. If SC doesn't expedite their ruling, that isn't happening.

I don’t know the legal landscape on this issue really, but I sure as hell hope SCOTUS doesn’t say former presidents can’t be charged for anything they do in office. Hopefully even they might think that’s a bad idea!

If they DO rule that way, then Biden oughta go hog wild. Shoot a senator or two. Deport Melania. Tie up Harlan Crow and piss on his shoes.

He'd need to clear it with the Senate Dem caucus first. In case he got impeached they'd need to stonewall like the Republicans did for Trump.

I don’t know the legal landscape on this issue really, but I sure as hell hope SCOTUS doesn’t say former presidents can’t be charged for anything they do in office. Hopefully even they might think that’s a bad idea!

If they DO rule that way, then Biden oughta go hog wild. Shoot a senator or two. Deport Melania. Tie up Harlan Crow and piss on his shoes.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, December 11, 2023

absolutely

If you shoot the right Senators they can’t impeach

Former presidents though. Watch your back, Brandon!

By many accounts this NYTimes piece on the behind the scenes Dobbs decision is a doozy:

https://archive.ph/HCnqc

Gorsuch signed off on the 98 page Dobbs decision ten minutes after getting it , and suggested no revisions!

Coney Barrett earlier argued they shouldn’t even take the case, then flip flopped and agreed to taking it and hearing it and signing off.

On Feb. 10 last year, Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. showed his eight colleagues how he intended to uproot the constitutional right to abortion.

At 11:16 a.m., his clerk circulated a 98-page draft opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. After a justice shares an opinion inside the court, other members scrutinize it. Those in the majority can request revisions, sometimes as the price of their votes, sweating sentences or even words.

But this time, despite the document’s length, Justice Neil M. Gorsuch wrote back just 10 minutes later to say that he would sign on to the opinion and had no changes, according to two people who reviewed the messages. The next morning, Justice Clarence Thomas added his name, then Justice Amy Coney Barrett, and days later, Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh. None requested a single alteration. The responses looked like a display of conservative force and discipline

Indeed!

Another oof

https://bsky.app/profile/propublica.bsky.social/post/3kgsuu6an422i

New: Clarence Thomas’ Private Complaints About Money Sparked Fears He Would Resign

"how much can we pay him to stay?!"

Labor champion

Will Thomas recuse from voting on whether to take the special counsel & trump immunity petition appeal ?

lol seriously

Such a shock that this guy has turned out to be a shit judge.

https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-money-complaints-sparked-resignation-fears-scotus

Didn't we post this already?

Some is updated info, and I accidentally missed that Josh’s bluesky link was to this

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/12/supreme-court-trump-cases-democracy-disaster.html

D. Lithwick summary of the Court and recent disclosures--

closing paragraph

Lavish world cruises, secret deals with moneyed donors, threats to step down unless someone ponied up with a pay raise, fishing trips with parties who have business before the court, an amicus brief industrial complex wholly bought and paid for by billionaire donations, leaked drafts, and secret speeches are not the stuff of constitutional democracy, or infallibility, or finality. When the hyperpolitical supercharged Trump cases catch up with the court—and that is beginning to happen, right now, this week—all that stench will run headlong into the questions about why the husband of the woman who went to the pep rally for the insurrection and the folks who lied to us all about Dobbs are objective enough to decide the outcome of an election. The same people entrusted with the protecting the reputation of the court have blundered into being wholly responsible for protecting democracy. Not one thing suggests they will take the latter any more seriously than they took the former.

https://x.com/mjs_dc/status/1738283561101197505?s=46&t=u2ZSlsY3trRV36IPP6jNDQ

The U.S. Supreme Court that a number of times accepted Trump Administration cert requests to rule on issues without a circuit court having to hear them first , has rejected the special counsel request for it to hear the immunity issue request, and thus the dc circuit will hold a hearing in January and then issue a decision which will then get appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. Tr-mp is trying to delay his trial and is succeeding

precisely why the handwringing over 'having a conviction first' before removing him from the ballot rings so hollow to me. these trials will all take forever and he is basically trying to use the Presidency to avoid being prosecuted and that is his main reason for running

I'm going to have to disagree on how common it is for the SC to accept these requests. It is not very common.

It’s not common but has been done.

How many justices would have to agree for it to happen?

It takes 4 justices to agree to hear a cert petition.

how many justices can dance on the head of Clarence Thomas?

It takes 4 justices to agree to hear a cert petition.

Makes you think.

SCOTUS to hear Trump "insurrection" case in February, Idaho ER abortion care case in April
In the abortion care case, the justices also allowed Idaho to enforce its near-total abortion ban without regard to the federal ER protections while the appeal is pending and is heard.

I truly dont know (i do know it’s donor class and they are ghouls by nature) why they wouldnt just throw him under the bus at this point they literally got theirs, are going to be getting theirs for life, and have SS (har har) protection and two parties disinterested in holding them to heel

I wonder this myself.

Me too but some of them seem so determined to own the libs that they’d have a hard time doing that.

https://i.imgur.com/XDKDX0o.gif

One can own the libs in peace and quiet

I’ll need a source on that one

one should think there's a point at which they push him off the bridge for their own safety and continued grifting, yet the barking plebs seem to have them ensorcelled, or theyre on their own supply

I'm not saying that the Supreme Court dropped this nightmarish, horribly cruel abortion order at the same time that they dropped the Trump order so no one would notice. But SCOTUS also dropped a nightmarish, horribly cruel abortion order tonight.

https://x.com/imillhiser/status/1743417797588254884?s=20

Heard part of a NPR reporter's take on the SCOTUS arguments this morning on a case that the Kochs are involved in and hope to use it to get rid of Chevron deference to Federal agencies. Reporter said Gorsuch, Alito, Thomas, ad Kavenaugh sounded eager to overturn Chevron, Roberts was quieter, and Coney Barrett seemed worried the court caseload would increase dramatically if they get rid of Chevron,

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4414026-supreme-court-chevron-arguments/

It seems like a very esoteric case that could have huge ramifications.

from Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. NRDC, 1984:

"A government agency must conform to any clear legislative statements when interpreting and applying a law, but courts will give the agency deference in ambiguous situations as long as its interpretation is reasonable."

from NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/us/supreme-court-chevron-case.html

"Members of the Supreme Court’s conservative majority seemed inclined on Wednesday to limit or even overturn a key precedent that has empowered executive agencies, threatening regulations in countless areas, including the environment, health care and consumer safety.

...The doctrine takes its name from a 1984 decision, Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council, one of the most cited cases in American law. Under it, judges must defer to agencies’ reasonable interpretations of ambiguous statutes."

Mark Stern's take in Slate re the respective views:

The three liberal justices, led by Kagan, mounted an impressive defense of Chevron in the face of their colleagues’ open hostility. At its core, Kagan explained, the doctrine is about respecting democratic choices. Congress (whom the people elect) passes laws that grant the president (whom the people elect) broad discretion to make certain policy choices by assigning key decisions to executive agencies; federal judges (whom the people do not elect) must defer to these decisions so long as the accountable officials interpret the law reasonably. Some choices are highly technical and rely on the agency’s specialized expertise. Others are contentious, allowing the agency to take sides in a public debate.

The remaining conservative justices were less dogmatic but made little effort to conceal their distaste for Chevron. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Amy Coney Barrett played it straight at first, asking real questions that hinted at an understanding of the mess that’ll flow from Chevron’s demise. But by the end of arguments, both were hounding Prelogar with telltale complaints about the ostensibly arbitrary and power-drunk executive branch crushing the rule of law. Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, who have gone on the record against Chevron, were only a bit subtler than Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. The writing’s on the wall of the marble palace, despite the liberals’ fierce fight....

Here’s the bottom line: Without Chevron deference, it’ll be open season on each and every regulation, with underinformed courts playing pretend scientist, economist, and policymaker all at once. Securities fraud, banking secrecy, mercury pollution, asylum applications, health care funding, plus all manner of civil rights laws: They are ultravulnerable to judicial attack in Chevron’s absence. That’s why the medical establishment has lined up in support of Chevron, explaining that its demise would mark a “tremendous disruption” for patients and providers; just rinse and repeat for every other area of law to see the convulsive disruptions on the horizon.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/supreme-court-democrats-president-chevron-precedent.html

I think this case will probably be disastrous for everyone.

with agency policy and adj decisions made far more short term and in order to comply with political instruction, the effective presence of agency policy in support of national standards will collapse. i'm guessing the next step in the rightwing playbook is privatization of federal interests and properties. it's how oligarchy assume their place.

Under it, judges must defer to agencies’ reasonable interpretations of ambiguous statutes."

If "Chevron" is overturned as precedent, then if lawyers can find a hint of vagueness or ambiguity in the phrasing of a law, they will be able to pursue litigation for relief of any regulatory interpretation of that law whatsoever. Of course, you can easily predict that corporate lawyers will be able to discover some hint of ambiguity in almost every statute passed by Congress granting the exercise of broad regulatory powers to an agency of the executive branch. Complete specificity in legislation is so rare as to be almost imperceptible.

as an ad law fan, expecting legislators to actively specify implementation of regulatory law is so fucking dumb. not just rare-- impossible.