Katrina's POLITICAL aftermath (keep the political discussions HERE)

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What does the sheer physical size of the United States have to do with ability for rescue?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 23:59 (twenty years ago)

dunno, not sure it's a good point to make considering areas affected by the tsunami were much, much greater, but i never figured ted stevens for being all that bright.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

And it sounds like he's saying the disaster itself covered "an area twice the size of Europe," which, uh, no.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

Would not Jesus Christ sell one of his luxury homes to help the indigent, huddled masses yearning to breathe free?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Story's already being reported pretty heavily in the blogosphere and will gain more traction. Bush's reaction will be interesting.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

over an area twice the size of Europe

Really?

(xpost)

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

gypsy OTM re: part II of his post.

Bush's reaction will be interesting.

this administration never properly deals with its incompetents. indeed, they are often rewarded with promotions or medals. my expectations are low...

my name is john. i reside in chicago. (frankE), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 00:26 (twenty years ago)

I've also been told that Halliburton has already been offered a government contract down there but haven't seen proof in an article

Buckle your seat belts, The reconstruction and relief "effort" is going to be the biggest cronied up slush fund of all time. But hey, maybe some of those refugees can just apply for their contractors' license, steer a few grand to their Republican congressional candidate, and then lean on a shovel for the next 10 years while the checks roll in. That's the free market at work!

For those of you crafting menus at home, that's pork for major Republican donors, cake for people putting "Astrodome" as their current address on initial claims for unemployment insurance.

rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 01:19 (twenty years ago)

over an area twice the size of Europe

Really?

Nope, it was actually the size of West Germany.

Ian Riese-Moraine: Let this bastard out, and you'll get whiplash! (Eastern Mantr, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

Katrina profiting continues...

Perhaps no city in the United States is in a better spot to turn Katrina's tragedy into opportunity. Long known for its commercial fervor, Houston, the largest city in the South with a metropolitan population of more than four million, has one of the busiest ports in the United States and remains unrivaled as a center for the energy industry.

Halliburton moved its headquarters to Houston from Dallas in 2003, joining dozens of companies based here that provide services for oil and natural gas producers.
Halliburton differs from many oil services companies in that it also does significant business with the federal government. Halliburton has a contract with the U.S. Navy, similar to its contracts in Iraq, that has already kept it busy after Hurricane Katrina. The company's Kellogg, Brown & Root unit was doing repairs and cleanup at three naval facilities in Mississippi last week.

Executives at other Houston companies said they were wasting little time in carrying out repairs in the Gulf of Mexico, where at least 20 offshore rigs and platforms are believed to be damaged or destroyed. Tetra Technologies, which repairs old platforms in the Gulf of Mexico or decommissions them, had employees in a helicopter the day after the storm passed to survey the damage.

"I always hate to talk about positives in a situation like this, but this is certainly a growth business over the next 6 to 12 months," said Geoffrey Hertel, the chief executive of Tetra. By Friday, Tetra had been able to send an 800-ton derrick barge it owns, the Arapaho, to the gulf to be used for platform repairs, Hertel said.

If the storm works to Houston's benefit, it would not be the first time a natural disaster of extraordinary size sparked some economic dynamism here.

The hurricane of 1900 in nearby Galveston, which killed more than 6,000 people and almost leveled the most thriving commercial city in the Southeast, paved the way for Houston, located 50 miles, or 80 kilometers, inland, to emerge as a regional center for shipping and oil refining.

The displacement of companies to Houston from New Orleans is an abrupt acceleration of a trend that has been going on for decades. Many large companies, particularly those in the energy business, have made that move over the years, leaving New Orleans more dependent on tourism and other service industries.

A surge of business activity in Houston might lift the fortunes of a city that is still struggling to recover from the collapse of Enron and two decades of job cuts in the energy industry.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 02:31 (twenty years ago)

at the risk of sounding weiner-ish, god forbid an oil services company actually y'know like do its job.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 02:33 (twenty years ago)

WA Post editorial on why Bush is responsible: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/05/AR2005090501035.html

That's when I start my finger-pointing, because a few days in and around this ground zero have convinced me that there are two things the federal government failed to do, and that for these failures there's ultimately no one to blame but the president.

First, an administration that since Sept. 11, 2001, has told us a major terrorist strike is inevitable should have had in place a well-elaborated plan for evacuating a major American city. Even if there wasn't a specific plan for New Orleans -- although it was clear that a breach of the city's levees was one of the likeliest natural catastrophes -- there should have been a generic plan. George W. Bush told us time and again that our cities were threatened. Shouldn't he have ordered up a plan to get people out?

Second, someone should have thought about what to do with hundreds of thousands of evacuees, both in the days after a disaster and in the long term. As people flooded out of New Orleans, it was officials at the state and local level who rose to the challenge, making it up as they went along. Bring a bunch of people to the Astrodome. We have a vacant hotel that we can use. Send a hundred or so down to our church and we'll do the best we can.

lyra (lyra), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

Meanwhile...

Hang around for the last graf of that one, it's a doozy.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)

wow.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 04:43 (twenty years ago)

Hurting, you do know that that graphic is from techcentralstation, right? you do know who was exposed as _funding_ techcentralstation last year, right?

in other news, Al Gore can be very funny when he wants to be. He still needs an editor, but still damn fine public speaking presence.

pics later.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:04 (twenty years ago)

No, I don't know.

Are you accusing them of miscounting hurricanes?

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:06 (twenty years ago)

Here's a better and more complete table from the Nat'l Weather Service:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:08 (twenty years ago)

I mean there's just no evidence that we're seeing an increase in hurricane frequency or intensity due to global warming. That doesn't mean we never will, but it hasn't happened yet.

When critics of the administration bring up the global warming issue in relation to Katrina, it only weakens their argument. Stick to the topic at hand.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:11 (twenty years ago)

Hurting, how did Katrina go from a cat 1 storm over florida to a cat 5?

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:17 (twenty years ago)

You're right! It was a mutant hurricane created by Bush administration policy! Nothing like this has ever happened before!

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:24 (twenty years ago)

I know what you mean, obv., that warmer water made the hurricane more intense. But it's a big leap of logic from there to say that the water being warm at that particular moment was a direct result of global warming, and that had human beings never released CO2 into the atmosphere, a hurricane like Katrina could never reach a high strength.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

in other news, i will say that like 5K-7K+ folks showed up at the Convention Center to hear Al Gore's Global Warming presentation. it was held in a ballroom that had a fire cap of 1,300.

Bit of bad planning, that.

so there was a few angry people turned away. Enough stuck around(incl. yrs truly) making noise that the organizers(the Oregon League of Conservation Voters) when and asked the former Vice President if he'd speak again, immediately afterwards. He agreed, so we got in line again for the 2 hour wait.

Photos here

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:40 (twenty years ago)

Really though, the inclusion of global warming in the debate over Katrina is specious for a number of reasons.

1) It was inevitable that eventually New Orleans would get a category 4 hurricane. This is not a new mutant strain of hurricane, and they just happen to come around every so many years.

2) Much of the "disaster," at least in New Orleans, was not the direct result of the hurricane's strength (though it was indirectly) but of poor planning, weak levees, the geography and demography of New Orleans, and sheer incompetence on the part of the federal government.

3) Bush did not singlehandedly cause global warming, nor could he singlehandedly have any noticeable impact on it during his administration. Even if he had signed Kyoto the day he stepped into office, it would take a long long time before the impact would be felt, and it certainly wouldn't reverse global warming by itself.

So again, as much as I wish Bush would take greater heed of global warming, I think it's totally specious to make it one of the main issues here, when we're really talking about failures of leadership, disaster prevention, and crisis management.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:40 (twenty years ago)

Gore never made it the direct cause of, he just said that weather is gunna get worse.

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:52 (twenty years ago)

Right, but the weather is going to get worse over many decades, not instantly.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:54 (twenty years ago)

at the risk of again sounding jerky, can we please stop talking about fucking al gore? his political career is long over, and while i don't disagree with his message per se, it's really irrelevant to what's going on in areas affected by katrina. i mean i am certainly supportive of the science of global warming, but we're getting into some specious shit here.

and really, at this point, al gore? if democrats can't find a better figure to rally behind, we deserve to lose.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 05:57 (twenty years ago)

the medium lobster (at fafblog) definitively destroys the "our hands were tied by local inaction" talkingpoint:

"...one must recognize that there are limits to what powers the federal government should exercise in a crisis. Yes, it is the right and duty of the president to override state drug policy, to determine who can or cannot marry, to indefinitely detain citizens without due process and to torture and kill prisoners as he sees fit, but disaster relief is a matter that should be left to the states. Yes, the images of the drowned, the diseased, and the desperately dying drove much of the country to outrage, but how much more outraged would America have been if FEMA had fed the Superdome refugees without the full oversight and authorization of the State of Louisiana? Had the president sent rescue helicopters to evacuate New Orleans the day the levees burst, he might have saved thousands of lives, but he would also have overstepped his authority - and if there's one thing George W. Bush refuses to countenance, it is abuse of power."

also see fafblog's Do-It-Yourself Emergency Management Guide!

queen's square hammer, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 06:10 (twenty years ago)

I liked the guy who said bush isn't to blame because he was ON VACATION

!!!

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

I was thinkng of sending my CV in, as Brown's going to get the boot. I've got a geography A-level, so I'm infinitely better qualified.

Matt (Matt), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

I believe that was a joke, cozen.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 07:12 (twenty years ago)

it sure was funny!

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

Stence, why the hate-on for Al Gore? I keep hoping the guy's going to announce he'll run for President in '08!

J (Jay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:00 (twenty years ago)

Because Al Gore sucks.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40305

Oh, very witty, Alfred. What incredible insight.

J (Jay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

OK the Daily Show last night was pretty funny, people. It never struck me just how ridiculous Bush's insistance on utilizing the sentence, "We're going to A B, because we're B A'ers!" all of the time until the dude was all, "We're going to EAT ZUCCHINI, because we are ZUCCHINI eaters!"

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:33 (twenty years ago)

Bush, Master of Tautology.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

I have a hard time putting on hate for Al Gore because A) he's the most harmless human being ALIVE besides like maybe Richard Simmons B) he's been pretty quietly doing his own evacuation efforts down there. It took a couple days before the press caught on he was doing it, because he didn't feel it was appropriate to publicize and possibly politicize his efforts, which I think is a pretty alright way to be. Man will never win as president, I mean he's intelligent and eloquent but he is also pretty freaking unexciting and people, well they like their exciting dudes they can "relate" to.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

Like Evan Bayh?

J (Jay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:39 (twenty years ago)

Though I do agree with the fact that the global warming thing is pretty well unnecessary to bring up as a focal point in this discussion and that it's patently untrue that had there been no global warming scenarios ongoing, that a category 4 hurricane would not have occurred, since they have been occurring since pretty much the beginning of recorded history. It's a valid topic of discussion as something to worry about for the future and something to consider and try to fix but it really has very little to do with Hurricane Katrina--like I said, hardly the first cat 4 to come ashore in the world. Had this happened in, say, November, then yeah, that might be a little off the wall crazy but a big hurricane in the US south at the end of the summer? Say it ain't so, etc.

xpost no, like Harding

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:40 (twenty years ago)

Ah, well then . . .

J (Jay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:41 (twenty years ago)

Let's be honest here, I mean I'm at the point where I'd take ANYONE as president because I mean even President Vince Vaughn seems like a better idea than our current situation.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

this guy?

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

was he in the axis of evil?

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

It's pretty clear that the Founders intended the Chief Executive to be a colorless individual (with the exception, naturally, of the first four presidents, who were, ahem, Founders). There's reasons why historians only consider a handful of presidents to be great and consign the rest to Benjamin Harrison-style oblivion.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

Intentions of the founding fathers are really not what people are going to the voting booth about these days, now are they?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

I mean let's be honest here, if people gave two shits about the Constitution we wouldn't have GWB in the Oval Office.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:53 (twenty years ago)

I dunno about that anti-music guy though, that's a little weird.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

I vote to give this man emergency powers:

http://thousandrobots.com/blog/files/palpatine_02.jpg

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

I think Congress already did that.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

meanwhile, time for political cartoons from the Guardian:

here and here

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)


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