Democrat party boosters
As yr British I’ll assume this is an honest mistake, but fwiw “Democrat party” is a dumb right-wing insult here in the US of A. They refuse to say “Democratic” on the ostensible grounds that it isn’t really democratic. (It’s weird that they still do this now that conservatives have decided that democracy itself is bad, but I think it’s so engrained at this point that they can’t help it.)
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 3 November 2023 22:24 (seven months ago) link
sorry about that, pure ignorance on my side here. lol, how the Trump Cases turned me into a budding Fred B wading into a\ political culture I know nothing about.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Saturday, 4 November 2023 01:04 (seven months ago) link
I for one enjoy your enthusiasm for this madness
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Saturday, 4 November 2023 01:19 (seven months ago) link
That's how I see it as well. I have a lot of issues with Biden too, but if I'm being honest he's almost certainly the best President of my lifetime. ― frogbs, Friday, November 3, 2023 11:06 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― frogbs, Friday, November 3, 2023 11:06 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Aren't you older than me? You probably got a year or two of Carter, no?
― The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 4 November 2023 01:26 (seven months ago) link
I find enthusiastic anti-Trump Democrat party boosters absolutely exhausting and frequently as deluded and myopic as the nutjobs at a Trump rally in their own way, not directed at anyone here. But I understand how racial minorities/trans people with absolutely legitimate fears for even their right to exist if a white supremacist Mussolini wanabe won, can both either decide to cover their nose and vote against the danger or decide they hate the Dems enough not to support them. What angers me about this godawful iteration of democracy through fear is how it suits the agenda of all the worst people in both parties to have a fascist bogeyman who wins the odd election.
every word of this is otm
― Deflatormouse, Saturday, 4 November 2023 01:31 (seven months ago) link
despite my feelings expressed above biden is far and away better than carter
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 4 November 2023 01:43 (seven months ago) link
I'm interested to hear more on this, I could imagine Biden has Jimmy licked on domestic policies like student debt relief and doing grand performative gestures like turning up on picket lines. Stuff like the latter I'm completely cynical about, but my head would explode if the UK LOTO did the same.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:04 (seven months ago) link
Carter's easier on the eyes tho
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:05 (seven months ago) link
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino)
Student debt relief isn't really his to claim credit for. The Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS bill, taking COVID seriously (in early 2021, that is), his positions on the WGA and auto strikes -- these are real achievements I can endorse, not to mention the pace at which he appointed judges.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:07 (seven months ago) link
Good summa: https://www.vox.com/politics/23697855/joe-biden-popularity-legislative-record
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:09 (seven months ago) link
to interrogate an old Cronenberg shocker quote "even old flesh is erotic"!
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:12 (seven months ago) link
Yeah, well I've seen his new flesh and consider the source
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:14 (seven months ago) link
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.),
Back to the Copacabana.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:15 (seven months ago) link
You sly puss.
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:18 (seven months ago) link
long live the new flesh
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Saturday, 4 November 2023 02:26 (seven months ago) link
Meet the new flesh, same as the old flesh
Can't be held responsible We were only fleshmen
― don't let days go by, Listerine (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 4 November 2023 03:39 (seven months ago) link
Flesh for fantasy
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 4 November 2023 03:40 (seven months ago) link
carter for the hose
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Saturday, 4 November 2023 03:54 (seven months ago) link
The Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS bill, taking COVID seriously (in early 2021, that is), his positions on the WGA and auto strikes -- these are real achievements I can endorse, not to mention the pace at which he appointed judges.
These but also I think he's done a lot of climate/environment stuff that really doesn't get talked about all that much. the money to 9/11 victims, extending temporary protection for Venezuelan immigrants, PACT act, Afghanistan withdrawal, Ukraine support, lifting sanctions on Rojava
He's not exactly the best publicist for some of these things, and in some ways I think people are still seeing the virgin 2020 candidate and not the chad president. I'm not sure there's ever been a wider gap between two candidates before either.
― anvil, Saturday, 4 November 2023 06:15 (seven months ago) link
His poll numbers took a serious hit after the Afghanistan withdrawal from which he's never recovered, yeah
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 4 November 2023 09:29 (seven months ago) link
― The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, November 3, 2023 8:26 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
86, dog
― frogbs, Saturday, 4 November 2023 17:22 (seven months ago) link
How would you rate him in comparison to Eisenhower?
― anvil, Saturday, 4 November 2023 18:56 (seven months ago) link
I wasn't that worried before, but now I amhttps://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/us/politics/biden-trump-2024-poll.html
― jaymc, Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:02 (seven months ago) link
Polls a year before an election don't mean jack -- and I simply don't believe that Trump leads in Michigan. People -- Dems -- are simply not paying attention now. Too damn early.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:03 (seven months ago) link
Cue the chorus of “fuck you NYT” but I’m with you jaymc
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:03 (seven months ago) link
It's in our nature to fret.
Also:
Discontent pulsates throughout the Times/Siena poll, with a majority of voters saying Mr. Biden’s policies have personally hurt them.
Is it too much to ask for evidence -- a quote from Larry at the diner who wonders why he couldn't take two summer vacations this year because Brandon?
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:06 (seven months ago) link
I agree that a lot can change in a year. I do think that Trump won't be as attractive to voters as he becomes more visible on the campaign trail.What I worry about is how sticky the "Biden is too old" and "The economy is terrible" narratives have proven to be.
― jaymc, Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:19 (seven months ago) link
alfred you ask for evidence but when confronted by the poll results you say they don't mean jack. so what would you accept as evidence?
― Thus Sang Freud, Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:52 (seven months ago) link
Trump dead of a coronary.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 November 2023 14:54 (seven months ago) link
Also once campaigning begins in earnest it’s likely Trump’s campaign message will be “I wuz robbed in 2020” and that’s a proven loser of a message already.
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:00 (seven months ago) link
And, I can’t stress this enough, he’s going to pick an absolute lunatic (probably someone who lost last year like Kari Lake) as his running mate, and that will have a negative effect.
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:04 (seven months ago) link
re: economic narrative, I know we all like Line Goes Up graphs showing that actually the economy is doing gangbusters but I don't know many people for whom that's a, uh, lived experience. I don't have a large close social circle but there were more layoffs among my friends over the last year than ever. Electricity prices here remain almost double what they were a couple of years ago, housing (rental) prices have only continued to spiral. Are those Biden's fault? Clearly not but economic malaise always gets dumped on the man/party in the White House. Thank god gas remains relatively cheap.
https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2023/10/31/the-economy-versus-the-economic-system/
― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:21 (seven months ago) link
Also: 22 percent of Blacks support Trump? Really? He earned 8 percent in 2020; the highest any Republican's earned in the last 60 years is 12 percent for Jerry Ford. I don't buy it.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:25 (seven months ago) link
I think the biggest thing people are reacting too economically is still just inflation, prices are very high relative to a few years ago, there's no way around that. Plus also a general sense of instability that just hasn't subsided post-pandemic. (plz no arguments about whether we are actually post-pandemic, you know what I mean.)
And yes polls this far out are super dubious, and also Trump's negatives are super high, this won't be a normal fresh-faced challenger vs. beleaguered incumbent election. BUT. Biden's numbers are terrible by historical standards for an incumbent to win reelection. There's no way around that either.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:25 (seven months ago) link
xp He may pick a lunatic, but he won’t pick a proven loser
― epistantophus, Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:26 (seven months ago) link
I feel like the central fact of Biden's unpopularlity just hasn't seeped into a lot of Democratic partisans' consciousness. He is very, very unpopular. The economy is part of it, his age is definitely a big part of it, and his general message of "Things are OK, firm hand on the tiller, steady as we go" is basically not persuasive on any count. Trump's general message of "Things are terrible and I'm super pissed off" feels more in line with a lot of people's experiences, even if the things he's pissed off about aren't actually the things they're pissed off about.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:29 (seven months ago) link
xxp Trump's support among Black men may reach double digits, but 22% seems wildly inflated. He'll be lucky to hit 5% among Black women.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:30 (seven months ago) link
tipsy otm
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 November 2023 15:34 (seven months ago) link
I do see Trump resonating with Black voters on real life, for exactly the reasons tipsy stated. Trump gets closer than any other president to upending the status quo that has never, ever worked out for them
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:15 (seven months ago) link
Black men, yes. Not so sure about Black women, long the sturdiest of Dems.
A thread:
A. Aggregated battleground polls are stupid. They make zero senseB. Donald Trump isn’t getting 20% of black votersC. NYT poll says 10% of the battleground-state electorate didn’t vote in famously low-turnout 2020, & they favor Trump by 14 points. 2020 voters are Biden+5— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 5, 2023
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:17 (seven months ago) link
re: economic narrative, I know we all like Line Goes Up graphs showing that actually the economy is doing gangbusters but I don't know many people for whom that's a, uh, lived experience. I don't have a large close social circle but there were more layoffs among my friends over the last year than ever. Electricity prices here remain almost double what they were a couple of years ago, housing (rental) prices have only continued to spiral. Are those Biden's fault? Clearly not but economic malaise always gets dumped on the man/party in the White House. Thank god gas remains relatively cheap.Point taken. I think a big part of the problem is that positive narratives about Biden that might counteract "too old" and "economy bad" haven't really taken hold (for plenty of good reasons both within and outside of the party's control).
― jaymc, Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:18 (seven months ago) link
Biden just needs to run on abortion
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:22 (seven months ago) link
He also needs Trump to run on compulsory impregnation of white women
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:24 (seven months ago) link
Pillow guy it is then!
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:32 (seven months ago) link
"Don't Sleep on Mike Lindell!"
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:43 (seven months ago) link
Lol
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 5 November 2023 17:49 (seven months ago) link
I don't think Lindell sleeps, what with all the cocaine.
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 November 2023 18:34 (seven months ago) link
When the phone rings at 3am…
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 5 November 2023 21:02 (seven months ago) link
Trump's general message of "Things are terrible and I'm super pissed off" feels more in line with a lot of people's experiences, even if the things he's pissed off about aren't actually the things they're pissed off about.
This is exceptionally OTM. I think Trump is a fascist goon (and Biden is a fascist should-be-retiree), but it's gotten easier for me to see how low-info voters could go for Trump. Shit is not going well for a lot of people, and Biden and the party don't seem to care or even pay lip service to that fact.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 5 November 2023 21:52 (seven months ago) link
Every single person I work with is working multiple jobs. About half of my close friends are in the same boat. And many are still struggling. Many people I know will not vote for Biden, but then again, many people I know didn't vote for him last time, either.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 5 November 2023 21:55 (seven months ago) link