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A good friend of mine got a few days of pretty severe vertigo (dizziness, vomiting) and tinnitus reactions after the initial modernas. Because of that she made sure her subsequent doses were Pfizer, but she is still going for Novavax this time and hoping for better results.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 October 2023 21:07 (seven months ago) link

shingles was far worse than any of the COVID ones for me

and ooh, since I had to cancel my appointment maybe I will go with Novavax next time (all so far were Pfizer)

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, 30 October 2023 21:13 (seven months ago) link

Currently shaking off my third bout. Each time seems less severe than the time before.

Nasty, Brutish & Short, Monday, 30 October 2023 21:17 (seven months ago) link

oh man I got my shingles vax and a covid vax at the same time last year and that was dumb

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 30 October 2023 21:18 (seven months ago) link

xp iirc the virus is still on the "more contagious, less deadly" trajectory?

also, is there any good "what we know now" article y'all can share? what ever happened to the "blood type affects symptoms" theory?

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, 30 October 2023 21:19 (seven months ago) link

I get most of my state of the union understanding in dribs and drabs from Katelyn Jetelina and Eric Topol’s substacks, though the latter is sometimes beyond my depth. Essentially IME- more contagious, less likely to kill or hospitalize you, maybe less likely to get you long covid but that’s not certain (and remains the key concern for me)

realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 October 2023 23:21 (seven months ago) link

thanks Jon

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, 30 October 2023 23:34 (seven months ago) link

The more jabbed you are, the lesser the chances of long COVID.

hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 October 2023 23:34 (seven months ago) link

hope yr feeling even better today, sleeve.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 01:12 (seven months ago) link

I am, thank you!

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 01:15 (seven months ago) link

Hugs, sleeve.

hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 01:18 (seven months ago) link

also, yes, my own anecdotal observations tend toward the “this is seemingly wildfire and while predictable, not assured.”

the one time I had it? a dinner party with another couple. three of us got it— one of them was spared— but we were literally sharing joints, playing videos for each other, etc. for hours.

in june, my mom got bumped to first class on a trip that she had taken with us to visit my husband’s family. my dad was seated a few rows behind her. she got Covid, he did not, and neither I nor my husband got it— we sat in an uber together on the way home from the airport, unmasked.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 01:29 (seven months ago) link

My wife tested positive last Monday. A couple of days before that, that Friday, she and my daughter were at the Taylor Swift movie, sitting next to each other for hours, sharing a drink and popcorn. My daughter didn't get sick.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 31 October 2023 02:04 (seven months ago) link

My older son and I both had it over the summer, but 6 weeks apart — neither of us caught it from the other, and no one else in the family caught it from either of us. Definitely feels like a crapshoot.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 02:28 (seven months ago) link

Crapshoot indeed.

On my first bout (summer 2022) it was just me. Wife and children were fine. Second time (summer 2023) they got it too, but very mildly.

I don't know how much of a coincidence it is that I started having periodic bouts of mental fog and fatigue around this time.

The fatigue is not just snooze-button "I want to sleep some more" or "I don't want to go to work." Like, I wasn't sleeping or even sleepy, I just couldn't move.

These bouts pass - they always pass. I can't necessarily connect it to covid, but it is concerning.

Breakfast at Tiffani Amber Thiessen's (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 03:22 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

I've just tested positive for the second time. I totally *knew* as it feels like last time: physically exhausted, with an appalling sore throat and a kind of ambient ache. Ugh.

According to the latest guidance I'm officially allowed to go to work (school) but lol, fucking no chance guvnor.

I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Monday, 11 December 2023 11:58 (five months ago) link

Well fuck, I feel awful. Day 4 and still in bed, completely wiped out with exhaustion. Mouth full of ulcers. Sinuses completely blocked. Throat like Chernobyl. Uuuggghh.

I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Wednesday, 13 December 2023 10:27 (five months ago) link

Aw, sorry Chinaski. Hope you recover soon.

CthulhuLululemon (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 13 December 2023 10:28 (five months ago) link

Ugh, so sorry Chinaski— rooting for ya

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Wednesday, 13 December 2023 18:01 (five months ago) link

Sounds awful, I’m sorry. Get well soon!

Expansion to Mackerel (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 13 December 2023 19:40 (five months ago) link

Thanks dudes. Mercifully, feel a bit better today so fingers crossed.

I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Thursday, 14 December 2023 13:49 (five months ago) link

Mouth ulcers? Sweet merciful Jesus. I didnt know this was a symptom.

Glad youre on the mend.

Esteemed character actress (sunny successor), Thursday, 14 December 2023 16:46 (five months ago) link

I gotta assume like any other significant hit to the immune system that covid can spark all sorts of other latent stuff, like cold sores.

My wife caught covid back in October. The actual illness wasn't terrible, no worse than a bad cold, but she had a terrible cough that just kept sticking with her. She's immunocompromised, so eventually, out of caution, and after a few weeks of this, went to urgent care, where they gave her a chest x-ray and diagnosed pneumonia in one lung. She had no fever, no shortness of breath, no other symptoms other than a bad cough. I guess that's why they call it walking pneumonia. The antibiotics knocked it out in a couple of days, but she had to take some specialized antibiotic, because pneumonia has grown resistant to the typical first course of action.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:11 (five months ago) link

fwiw mouth ulcers and cold sores aren't the same thing
sorry to pedant

Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Thursday, 14 December 2023 20:42 (five months ago) link

I think I was thinking of canker sores, which are mouth ulcers. Right?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 21:51 (five months ago) link

I'm all about the cankers. I have one in an unmentionable place; it feels quite a lot like being stabbed every time I cough or sneeze. Which is quite often.

I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Thursday, 14 December 2023 22:05 (five months ago) link

I also clearly have the 'disinhibited' form of covid. Sorry for tmi.

I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Thursday, 14 December 2023 22:06 (five months ago) link

Josh, this is what scares me (among other things) about COVID. I've never had it but I have had pneumonia twice in the last 6 years - one time i ended up in hospital for 5 days, the other I had to take 6 weeks off work. No fun at all. Definitely could do without the trifecta. Glad your wife's bout got knocked out fairly quickly.

Esteemed character actress (sunny successor), Friday, 15 December 2023 12:29 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

Some really terrifying stuff here

So I want to talk about the implications of the study on cognitive slowing that came out in the Lancet yesterday, because it is incredibly important. You should be VERY, VERY, VERY worried by this, because essentially what it shows is that the number of people with moderate to severe cognitive impairment has grown dramatically in just four years and is poised to grow further. A lot further.

So a large study was done in BOTH the UK and Germany, that matched three cohorts of patients. The first one were folks with long covid (aka PCC). The second had had covid, but did not have long covid symptoms. The third were people who had not had covid.

In the control group (no covid) 4% had severe cognitive impairment already and 14.7% showed moderate cognitive impairment. The vast majority (3xs as many as have severe impairment) of those people have milder cognitive impairment, rather than severe. So without any other affects, about 19% of the population has some kind of cognitive slowing, due to disability, temporary health problems like chemo, dementia or MCI etc...

In the group with Long Covid, 9.3% of the population had moderate cognitive impairment and *53.5%* had Severe impairment, more than three standard deviations below the norm. This is a huge and appalling number.

Just as horrifying, but getting less attention, among those who DID NOT HAVE LONG COVID but had had covid had a 19.4% rate of severe impairment and a 9.7% rate of moderate impairment - which means that out of folks who have had covid but DID NOT GET LONG COVID, nearly a third of them are cognitively impaired, and a majority of those severely.

This study folllows on the heels of MANY MANY studies that show covid causes brain damage, and affects the brain seriously. So what does this mean for us as a society and what does it mean individually?

First, let's start with how many people this probably is. There's a lot of dispute over the number of people who get long covid, with estimates ranging in the vaccinated from 5%-25%+ A lot of it depends on how you identify long covid and frame the issue. What we do know is that when you ask people about symptoms, you get very high proportions, but generally if you ask people about whether they have long covid, you get low ones, which suggests it is underdiagnosed, rather than the opposite.

So let's pick a low-end number, suggesting that 10% of covid infections result in long covid (the US CDC says 20%, btw) - which lines up with a recent Canadian study that showed that long covid risk was cumulative, with a risk of 38% in people who had had covid three or more times.

At 0 infections, about 20% of the population has some kind of cognitive slowing. In the United States, with a population of 330 million, that's about 66 million people - of those 66 millions, 16.5 have severe impairment and just under 50 million have moderate impairment.

Now how does this bode for the future when you plug these numbers into the US population? I'll use conservative numbers and round down whenever possible. Remember, the US CDC estimates the prevalence of long covid at around 20%, but I'm going to say 10% to be conservative.

330 Million Americans, 90% have had covid, that gives us 297 Million Americans who have had covid, and if one in ten has long covid, that's just about 30 Million Americans with Long covid. 60.3% showed some kind of cognitive impairment, mostly severe, and that means 18.9 MILLION Americans have cognitive slowing due to Long Covid. In this case, a huge majority of them, more 5 out of six, have severe impairment.

But we aren't done. Because almost 30% of folks who had covid infections but did not have long covid ALSO had significant cognitive slowing. 90% of Americans, in the absence of any mitigation have had at least one case of covid. That equals 297 Million Americans. Of those 29% would have either moderate or severe cognitive impairment. That's 86 MILLION Americans, and again, a majority of them (twice as many) have severe impairment.

So using these numbers, the US has gone from 66 million people, mostly with moderate cognitive impairment and slowing, to 170 MILLION Americans with some kind of cognitive impairment, 88 Million of them with severe cognitive slowing and impairment, more than two or three standard deviations below the norm.

So not only have we more than doubled the number of cognitively disabled people in the US, we've increased the amount of people with severe cognitive impairment by FIVE TIMES WHAT IT WAS FOUR YEARS AGO. That is a huge and terrifying change.

But what does that cognitive slowing actually MEAN in day to day life? The study points out that it affects your response to stimulus - that is, your rapid response to complex situations, and your puzzle solving ability. For example, how do you make split second decisions while driving, or flying a plane, but also how do you make routine rapid decisions - for example how much change to give at the cash register or what how to respond when confronted with a challenging situation. It also tested how quickly people absorbed information - for example, how rapidly they could incorporate new things into their thinking, whether a sudden truck cutting them off or the sudden revelation of a new data point that requires response.

People in this study needed A LOT more time to process things correctly. They were unable to respond quickly and accurately in test situations - and test situations are generally LESS stressful than real life. This also had implications for people's ability to pay attention. If it is taking them a lot longer to absorb and process new information, then they are processing one concept while you are presenting another and more things are being missed. It is also easier for people to lose the thread of what is going on, when it is taking considerable time for them to absorb information.

So this has implications for pretty much everything in life. And we've been seeing these implications all through the system. For example, in the increase in driving accidents. From 2018 to 2022 the increase in fatal car accidents, even during periods with reduced driving due pandemic restrictions, increased by 16%. In the same period, the FAA found that aviation accidents and near misses had increased by 25% over a decade ago. And that makes perfect sense given the impact of covid on pilots and drivers. Because remember, MOST OF THESE PEOPLE EITHER DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE IMPAIRED OR DONT REALIZE HOW BAD IT IS.

It has implications for education as well - if almost half your students are cognitively impaired (and it is almost impossible to know what the rate of long covid is among children, who can't tell us they felt better two years ago because they were three then) and processing things much slower, they are going to struggle to understand, struggle to pay attention and struggle with impulse control when they have to make rapid decisions.

And this matches up really well with what teachers are telling us about kids now - that they are less in control, more likely to do dangerous or foolish things, less able to attend, unable to remember basic concepts, and unable to process information well. Over and over teachers have blamed this on the pandemic restrictions, but we know that test scores fell most in states that were closed the shortest time. This why the kids never seem to be catching up - because forced infection is harming their brains. And why kindergarteners who were babies during lockdowns are struggling now.

The implications for daily life are also huge - your accountant is typing in numbers rapidly and may miss a line or two because of cognitive slowing. An inspector misses a whole section of something. Your therapist can't process quickly enough to understand everything you've said. Your doctor misses the critical bit about your penicillin allergy. A person has to respond rapidly to a customer complaint or a situation in a workplace, and makes a bad choice - and now is embarassed and trying cover for their error. Life comes at you fast - but you can't do fast anymore. And this too dovetails with what we've been hearing - reports of unusually severe levels of errors across fields, declines in testing in multiple professions across the board.

And we're only four years in. A recent review of covid from Canada found that Long Covid risk was cumulative - that is, 38% of those who had had covid THREE OR MORE TIMES had long covid. Which gives you above a 50-50 chance of cognitive slowing.

There may be people completely immune to long covid, but probably not nearly enough. If we continue with unchecked covid spread, we are looking at a population that is severely cognitively damaged. We already have cognitive damage at levels never seen before in history. And we haven't got a CLUE what the long term implications of covid's role in our brains is - but we know some things. We know it increases your risk of Alzheimers and Parkinsons, and we also know that the covid virus makes nanotubes through your brain, and then sets up shop there, and is often found permanently in your brain.

One of the reasons I truly believe that covid is AS GREAT a threat to us as Climate change is, is this - we are going to need every bit of big brain power that humans have to get through the coming decades. Every time we throw human being's greatest advantage - our capacity to think things through and solve problems - in the trash can so that we can eat at Olive Garden and not wear masks, we risk our future.

Moreover, we have already done incalculable harm to many people, particularly those who are most vulnerable. While traffic accidents are up all across the board by 16%, they are up even more among the unvaccinated. And while you might not have a lot of empathy for adults who don't vaccinate, the vast majority of unvaccinated globally are either adults who have no access (including in the US now that we've ended pandemic supports) and CHILDREN. We are damaging our children's brains on a huge and unprecedented scale, and it may be the thing that destroys us.

Feeling this really hard because I can absolutely see my cognitive decline - not in terms of puzzles (I still completely rule in word games) but general forgetfulness and brain fog and difficulty focusing at work. But what shall one do with that?

Washington Post Malone (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:12 (four months ago) link

it's no good. definitely not like a cold or flu. and as i mentioned in the other thread, currently in California (you know, the leftist nightmare nanny state where you aren't allowed to live freely due to covid restrictions), they rolled back the covid restrictions to the point that anyone who is testing positive but is asymptomatic no longer needs to isolate, and that includes students. get back to school, kids!

omar little, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:21 (four months ago) link

terrifying

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:27 (four months ago) link

a repository of long COVID research that had trickled in over 2023, from Katelyn Jetelina:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/long-covid-research-roundup?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:30 (four months ago) link

what's the source for that quote about cognitive impairment?

bryan, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:42 (four months ago) link

looks like it's from a novelist's substack? unless they were just reposting.

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:44 (four months ago) link

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35701598/

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:45 (four months ago) link

"Selective visuoconstructional impairment following mild COVID-19 with inflammatory and neuroimaging correlation findings"

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:45 (four months ago) link

an MD friend of mine just posted about this a couple days ago so I had that link at hand

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:46 (four months ago) link

xxxpost and a previous article that i found helpful, also from Katelyn Jetelina, on research from last year: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/covid-19-research-roundup-jan-11?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

big eye-openers were:

*transmission taking longer than previously thought
*highest viral load at days 3-4 of infection rather than pre-symptoms (which is why the 5 day arbitrary quarantine time without a negative test is ridiculous - you basically return to life while you still might be at your most infectious).

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:46 (four months ago) link

thanks sleeve!

never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:47 (four months ago) link

np

dead precedents (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:47 (four months ago) link

i would be more outraged and upset about this if i hadn’t been smoking weed for the last 30 years

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:47 (four months ago) link

my wife's mom passed away after a 15 year battle w/dementia back in 2021, so she has fears of getting covid due to that, just knowing about the compounding effects. she wants to kick that down the road as long as possible, knowing it might be very difficult to avoid it forever, but if that's the case simply wanting to get as few infections as possible.

omar little, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:50 (four months ago) link

thanks for all the links

bryan, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:52 (four months ago) link

Sorry, meant to get the Lancet link in there. Failed; blame covid

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(24)00013-0/fulltext

Washington Post Malone (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 30 January 2024 20:54 (four months ago) link

Was gonna say, that "selective visuoconstructional" study is from ... 2022? 2023? The one you just posted is obviously more recent, though the methodology is not really clear/convincing to me, admittedly a cognitively impaired dummy. Just 194 participants?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 21:03 (four months ago) link

i would be more outraged and upset about this if i hadn’t been smoking weed for the last 30 years

― Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, January 30, 2024 3:47 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
^^^
Ironically, I just had covid (2nd time) over the holidays and have been feeling sharper and more focused at work this month than at any time in the last 22 years, albeit I have a big project forcing me to focus.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, 31 January 2024 18:16 (four months ago) link

SO I got the rona first the first time about a month ago.

a couple of weeks later I felt like I was getting round 2 but 3 neg tests proved otherwise. However, the symptoms were all the same and over the past two weeks ive had shallow breathing, severe fatigue, sore legs, back and arms, sore chest and a dry cough. Its basically been awful just being.

I finally have a drs appt this afternoon and Im scared hes going to act like Im making it all up or act like its nothing. Its been so hard just getting through the work day. Im basically putting most of my work on my team, who have been very helpful and sympathetic but obviously this cant go on.

Anyway, im scaaaaaaared.

Esteemed character actress (sunny successor), Thursday, 1 February 2024 14:40 (four months ago) link

ugh sorry to hear it, hugs!

Are you up to date with vaxes?

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 February 2024 14:42 (four months ago) link

I had a flu over Christmas that very similar to covid. It's possible you just got unlucky and got covid then flu, they are both definitely getting about. Either way, both times (although it wasn't as severe as it sounds for you) it took me about six weeks to feel relatively back to normal. Whatever happens, hope you feel better soon!

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 1 February 2024 15:42 (four months ago) link

The cognitive impairment thing sounds plausible but I'm not sure that long panicky Substacky is the best means to understanding and using that information. One study is not enough to get ALL CAPS PANIC about something, although obviously it doesn't hurt to be more mindful of risks.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 1 February 2024 15:46 (four months ago) link


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