Israel, Palestine & the Levant rolling events: Oct 23 on

As requested. WmC do you want to close the other thread?

Yair Wallach, who is an Israeli academic at SOAS very much not sympathetic to Likud/Bibi, is a good source on twitter atm, but like all the content out there atm, proceed at your own risk.

He retweeted this video of a young woman from one of the kibbutzes (kibbutzim?) that was attacked earlier:

By far the most powerful Israeli response I have seen.

This 19 year old girl survived the horrific massacre in Kibbutz Be’eri.

This is her message to her fellow Israelis and to the world.

Watch the whole thing.pic.twitter.com/qSPKZX4pzg

— Benzi Sanders (@BenzionSanders) October 14, 2023

Thanks, gyac.

Chotiner and Sari Bashi, the program director at Human Rights Watch:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-humanitarian-catastrophe-in-gaza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W43C8xhh5E

Sam & Emma interviewing Omar Shakir, Israel & Palestine Director at HRW this morning

looks like David Dayen in there too

Yes, but trying to ask a question of the guest when Sam is in interview mode is a tall order

Why is our political class so invested in suppressing criticism of the apartheid regime? The answer is obvious. Western states support Israel in order to maintain their power at a crucial crossroads of world trade. Challenging that power is impermissible, because any attempt to hold Israel accountable for its crimes is – by definition – an attempt to hold our own states accountable for their involvement in them. Not only are our rulers prepared to let Israel level Gaza; they will even provide it with diplomatic cover and military supplies.

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/impending-genocide

As noted, I know numerous IRL people with Israeli flag avatars saying that they stand with Israel no matter what.

Plus I know IlXorz and others who almost uniformly condemn Israel as a brutal apartheid state that continues to use "but the Holocaust" as a laminated carte blanche for every atrocity the IDF wishes to commit. (There is a bit of a strawman in there but that's another topic for another time.)

I have met exactly zero people in between. I know it is not about me and/or my feelz. And I don't love "both sides"ing US politics either. The discourse is polarized and will remain so.

Absolutely no-one has talked about this situation at work, there's been no conversation about it at all, maybe people don't talk about it at work in the US either I don't know.

No offence Tom but that was a post I was hoping could be left behind in the old thread

xp, thank you for that gyac, incredibly moving. I also recommend the NYTimes Daily from today on the situation on the ground in gaza from the perspective of people caught in it, difficult listening:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/podcasts/the-daily/gaza-israel.html

(the ep labeled "Voices from Gaza")

I’m just going to say that I am not in-between on this issue, but that should be obvious by now.

xp I know people are all about bearing witness but I find this stuff incredibly upsetting.

I don’t think it was mentioned but Humza Yousuf who is Scotland’s first minister has family trapped in Gaza. I am linking this video as I find this content extremely upsetting.

Bernard's mother and family went out of their way to tell me that they would be praying for my family in Gaza. We hugged, we cried, and we promised to re-dedicate ourselves to peace and to be unequivocal; no innocent man, woman, or child should pay the price of another's actions. https://t.co/Vv1fz9gXqJ

— Humza Yousaf (@HumzaYousaf) October 13, 2023

Also, for context on the Kibbutz Be'eri post and those less familiar with the situation of the past 15-20 years (and again disclaimer I am hardly an expert myself): from Ariel Sharon onward, Israeli policy has been increasingly tilted toward a phony sort of "disengagement." In my mind, it traces back to the building of the West Bank wall although that could be simplistic take. But Netanyahu has turbo-charged this idea, basically that Israel could just kind of ignore the territories (at least other than soldiers stationed in the West Bank) rather than engage in any more ongoing negotiations, that the West Bank could continue to develop economically even without full agency or freedom, and that Gaza would be the kind of counterexample (i.e. life would be worse than in the West Bank) as long as Hamas was there. That terrorism could simply be prevented or minimized through "security," the settlements in the West Bank could continue quietly, and most Israelis would just live their lives and not worry.

Netanyahu is also notoriously corrupt and venal, and he has maintained power through a coalition with right-wing settler and religious parties, giving both more power (which also angers the more secular wings of Israeli politics as Israel gradually takes on additional trappings of theocracy, though it is hardly a full theocracy).

Netanyahu also favors his voters. The kibbutzes near Gaza tend actually to be center-liberal to left. They are not Netanyahu voters. There is a strong sense that Netanyahu "neglected" these areas as the girl expressed in her video, and that is also reflected in the sense that he neglected security near the Gaza border. I genuinely do not know whether Netanyahu "allowed" the attack but I seriously doubt it for reasons I stated in the prior thread. I think this was more hubris and stupidity and myopia.

"I don’t think it was mentioned but Humza Yousuf who is Scotland’s first minister has family trapped in Gaza. I am linking this video as I find this content extremely upsetting."

Mentioned this in the last Israel thread.

You can count on one hand the number of European leaders who have talked about Palestinians as human beings

And they’re all backpedaling now given protests and public pushback.

The President of the University of Pennsylvania has released her 3rd or 4th public statement apologizing for letting a Palestinian writers conference take place last month

The President of the University of Pennsylvania has released her 3rd or 4th public statement apologizing for letting a Palestinian writers conference take place last month

people are so fucking gross

Public statements issued by university presidents are generally tailored to a narrow and specific segment of the public, mainly anyone with influence over university revenues or endowments. They are paid to know how to read that room.

Aimless, we know. No offense.

Well, yeah. When you've got Dick Wolf threatening your donations because you let Palestinians into a building named after him...

a name like Dick Wolf must never be besmirched

Always guarantee the BBC will always be fucked.

The BBC admits that it misled the public about pro-Palestinian demonstrations in the UK. pic.twitter.com/oi4nVf5DN7

— Lowkey (@Lowkey0nline) October 16, 2023

i think about this poem by Palestinian poet Najwan Darwish all the time pic.twitter.com/jv5WOOjobb

— هستی hasti (@youarehasti) October 16, 2023

xp - That retraction was also poorly phrased and could be misleading.

This is @GhassanAbuSitt1, a surgeon who is currently saving the lives of Palestinians in a hospital in Gaza. He's just reported that counter terrorism police have showed up at his house in the UK and harrased his family.pic.twitter.com/GOvl5aQLHG https://t.co/bugmmZPAMM

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) October 16, 2023

That retraction was also poorly phrased and could be misleading.

glad i'm not the only one who thought this

OTM

I know this is old news, but it still blows my mind that the range of Acceptable Opinions on Israel is narrower in the West than it is in Israel.

That Darwish poem is great. Notable that Armenians were just cleansed from Artsakh by Azerbaijan and absolutely no-one in the west cared.

Yup. Armenia could be invaded in the next few weeks btw.

xxp two words: Social Media.

Nuanced discussions are often lacking in the echo chambers of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. The only place where I've seen nuanced discussions about the topic are on platforms that favor more nuanced discussion, such as ILX and (yes, believe it or not) Reddit.

I do wonder if the "outrage economy" of clickbait extremism online and the 24 hours news cycle will finally hit a limit of societal acceptability in western democracies, but I'm not holding my breath, they still make $$$

"We called a pro-palestinian march pro-Hamas. We accept that this was a thing that we said". WTF.

Now here's the weather.

True, I understand in theory how misinformation supposedly works. But I'm finding it extremely challenging to trust some of the news sources being cited and finding myself turning to reddit, and other news sources that I don't normally consult trying to see what areas of dispute exist over even just the factual reporting.

xp

Interestingly enough, a private forum I participate in is completely avoiding talking about this, and honestly it might be for the best.

The ukpolitics sub is overall fanatically pro-occupation and pro-genocide, and they are gradually losing their shit as they observe the public becoming turned off by this stance. Also they are usually witheringly critical of the Tories but have suddenly become staunchly supportive of Sunak and Braverman.

Are you taking about Reddit or something

I have met exactly zero people in between.

To the extent I've talked to people about this, almost everybody I know IRL is "in between" the two positions you describe.

Reddit is a paragon of “nuanced discussion” now. We are truly fucked.

Actually was just thinking about this specific issue in non-Reddit terms which still definitely apply to Reddit. How this conflict is a godsend for the extreme right (and whatever apologists they may have claiming to be “leftist”). Because it so thoroughly divides actual leftists from liberals steeped in realpolitik or whatever they’re on.

a name like Dick Wolf must never be besmirched

There's nothing decent to besmirch. The Law & Order "franchise" is a formulaic, sensationalist pile of shit. All 1,316 episodes of it.

Also pretty depressing how my social media feed was blissfully Ben Shapiro-free until various people decided his thick-headed, one-dimensional take on the Middle East was the voice of reason this past week.

xxp two words: Social Media.

Nuanced discussions are often lacking in the echo chambers of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. The only place where I've seen nuanced discussions about the topic are on platforms that favor more nuanced discussion, such as 4chan and (yes, believe it or not) Stormfront.

We get it. You don't like Reddit.

I don’t like social media illiterates upholding a literal right wing extremist-captured disinformation service as their go-to for balanced discussion.

lol what

Lol hey i wasnt even posting here viborg

Yes, the famously extremist platform, reddit

Extremely milquetoast maybe

WOW

A website is DOCUMENTING Israel’s crimes with GEOLOCATION, dates, categories of crimes, and footage of the incidents themselves.

One click and you can see EXACTLY what Israel did.

An enormous digital archive built for ACCOUNTABILITY.

Link: https://t.co/jwdiC3h3ID

Direct… pic.twitter.com/wYekf0Cz6p

— Suppressed News. (@SuppressedNws1) May 23, 2026

excellent work that builds on what was done in the Hague to indict Netanyahu of war crimes. pity is that the international mechanisms for accountability have so far not been able to function as they should, almost entirely due to the intentionally genocide-blind policies of the USA

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/28/netanyahu-orders-israeli-army-seize-70-gaza-strip-violating-ceasefire-deal

Netanyahu orders Israeli army to seize ‘70% of Gaza Strip’, violating ceasefire deal

Benjamin Netanyahu has said he has given orders to the Israeli army to seize control of 70% of the Gaza Strip in a move that threatens to torpedo an already fragile ceasefire and create catastrophic humanitarian conditions in the already devastated territory.

Under the US-brokered ceasefire in October, the Israeli army withdrew to a demarcation line which gave Israel direct control of 53% of the occupied territory. Since then, Israeli forces have steadily advanced their positions westward into the Hamas-controlled half of the strip, and declared an ever-expanded no man’s land west of that, within which they claim the right to decide who can enter and open fire on anyone perceived as a threat.

In recent days, Israeli-backed armed militias have taken a leading role in emptying the territory along the ceasefire line, telling residents to vacate their homes or shelters.

Throughout the eight months of the ceasefire, Israeli forces have continued to open fire on Palestinians within range of the “yellow line” splitting the strip, and carry out airstrikes deeper inside western Gaza, killing more than 900 Palestinians since the truce began.

gotta say it's profoundly absurd to call the ceasefire "already fragile" and then include the next 3 paragraphs

I get so upset looking at pics what a beautiful ancient city Tyre is and what the disgusting genocidal entity are doing to the the people and the continuous beautiful culture that has existed there for thousands of years by bombs and excavators. These are not human beings committing these genocidal crimes, they are literally fucking demons.

I cheer every time I see a vid of these subhuman scum killed by Hezbollah FPV drones.

the amount of paramedics, nurses, and doctors slaughtered in Lebanon in the last month, in double tap - even triple tap strikes and fucking quadruple tap strikes, is something close to 130 I think. There is an image of one of these attacks that was caught on a film and a still shows the IDF missile just about to hit the paramedics trying to save some victims of the first couple of strikes. This rogue state needs to be shut down.

Crosspost to Islamophobia thread but to look at before and after satellite pictures of these parts of Lebanon or the West Bank — to say nothing of Gaza — and still be a cavilling “muhh it’s complicated muhh rockets muhh only democracy” melt (they still exist!) you really have to believe deep down that these are not real people who deserve full lives

Lebanon only good flag too

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/6/3/israel-is-building-more-military-posts-in-gaza-satellite-imagery-shows

Israel was supposed to fully withdraw its troops from Gaza as part of the ceasefire signed in October. Instead of pulling back, Israeli forces are quietly cementing permanent, heavily fortified military posts across the besieged enclave, according to satellite imagery analysed by Al Jazeera.

An investigation by Al Jazeera’s Open Source Unit, analysing satellite data up to May 2026, has identified 40 distinct Israeli military outposts entrenched within Gaza. Crucially, the analysis proves that eight of these bases were constructed entirely from scratch after the October 2025 truce went into effect, with one site still undergoing active construction.

Bibi's out there bragging about moving to occupy 70 percent of Gaza, it's not like any of this is secret.

but i just heard Rubio say they ended the war in GAZA

xp For sure, though a) important to realize they're starting from a base of 60%; and b) I found the map (esp.) and other details ("In one of the most glaring examples of this spatial takeover, Israeli forces established a new military base directly atop the ruins of the Eastern Cemetery in Khan Younis.") in that article... compelling? idk, that's not the right word, but it's striking to see how much permanent infrastructure they're building. People use to argue if you called Gaza an open-air prison pre-2023, but there's no ambiguity now.

Yeah. They're being completely naked about it, and nobody's doing anything to stop them.

On what Israel is doing in/to southern Lebanon:
https://www.972mag.com/israeli-occupied-southern-lebanon-ceasefire-survival/

‘Wall of Tears’ exhibition to open in Dearborn with event on June 11

https://dearborn.gov/wall-tears-exhibition-open-dearborn-event-june-11

The City of Dearborn, along with Jewish Voice for Peace-Detroit, the U.S. Palestinian Community Network, and ACCESS are pleased to announce the Wall of Tears, a powerful and timely visual art project created by artist Phil Buehler that depicts names, ages, stories, and photographs of the 18,457 children killed in Gaza since October 7, 2023. The “Wall of Tears” is a 100-foot-long, 7.5-foot-tall outdoor mural featuring the names of these children, both in Arabic and Latin type, color-coded by boys and girls and listed by date of death.

An exhibition opening for the “Wall of Tears” will be held at Dearborn PEACE Park East on Thursday, June 11 from 5:00 -7:00 pm, where the mural will be on display through the end of July.

Speakers will include Mayor Abdullah H. Hammoud, Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, Rabbi Alana Alpert of Congregation T’chiyah, and artist Phil Buehler.

The event will also include the opportunity to meet the artist, view the Wall of Tears, and participate in family-friendly art activities.

Dearborn Mayor Abdullah H. Hammoud said, “For nearly three years, the world has witnessed the Israeli government’s genocidal campaign in Gaza, a campaign that has taken the lives of tens of thousands of innocent children and families. That same destruction has spread to Lebanon, leaving millions displaced and entire villages wiped from the map. This monument stands in memory of those children and as a call to conscience, reminding future generations of the cost of silence and the responsibility to never look away.”

The Wall of Tears installation has brought visitors from around the world to witness the intersection of art, political commentary and the horrors of genocide, and has been on display around the world, including in New York City, Australia, London, San Francisco, and New Jersey. After Dearborn, new walls will soon be built in Mexico City, Dallas, and Portland.

The Wall of Tears was created with the database from the Gaza Ministry of Health. Stories and photographs of 100 of the children were assembled from @WashingtonPost, @Guardian and the @Gaza_Shaheed project, which shares memorials posted on X/Twitter by families.

The mural continues Buehler's tradition of creating art that can be appreciated both from a distance as a powerful visual statement and up close for detailed examination of individual elements. "Like my other murals, I hope this one works on multiple levels,” Buehler said. “You might be curious from a distance and be drawn in and read some of their stories and look at the family photos. How could someone walk away without thinking that this could be my kid, my niece, my neighbor’s kid? Our love of children is universal.”

On Saturday, June 13 at 2:00 pm, a second art installation entitled Gaza City will be presented at the Henry Ford Centennial Library alongside a special event. This walk-in photograph, or “cyclorama”, showcases the visceral devastation in Gaza, allowing viewers to step into the center of Gaza City surrounded by images of tent cities and the many men, women and children living amidst the destruction.

The event will also feature a screening of the Academy Award-nominated film The Voice of Hind Rajab, and several speakers, including Huwaida Arraf of the Freedom Flotilla organizing committee and artist Phil Buehler, who will share deeper insights, discuss the artwork and film and answer questions. Additionally, attendees will connect via Zoom for a live report directly from Dr. Mohamed Kuziezsome and some of the doctors currently in Gaza.

Gaza City is a collaboration between Buehler and Palestinian photojournalist Shroug Alaiya, who took the dozens of photographs that Buehler digitally stitched together to create the cyclorama. With concern for her privacy and safety, Alaiya was asked if she wanted to be credited with the artwork, to which she responded, "You can mention my name, no risk in this. I’ve already survived a genocide."

This agreement between Iran and Israel is a frightening outcome for Gaza btw.

If Israel is forced out of Lebanon and Netanyahu is to face elections he will to turn somewhere else for more 'victories' to offer to the Israeli public. Gaza is the obvious choice.

Having difficulty believing Israel is going to leave Lebanon.

it's grim, and the same applies to Cuba, Ecuador and Bolivia with the US having to take their warmongering, looting and murdering ways back to their sphere of influence, so they can look hard again.

No reason to waste mental energy on trying: per Al-Jazeera, Israel has killed 3 in Lebanon today

xp

not that that changes what xyzzzz said

and yes to calzino's point, esp Cuba I think

Be interesting to see re: Lebanon. I doubt Israel will bomb Beirut for a while.

And then you've got the South. Despite everything Israel has thrown at Lebanon Hezbollah don't seem like anywhere near close to collapsing. Trump is begging Syria to do the job, which gives an indication on where we are at.

not to engage in the dismal practice of trying to guess what donald trump is thinking, but I have to wonder if he knows Israel has also invaded Syria. I don't know much about their leadership though, maybe they'd be willing to get involved for the right price, but otoh "would you like to fight this army the IDF can't defeat?" seems like an easy question to answer

I don't know whether Syria has the capacity but I also wonder what is being cooked up.

the lunatic Trump was talking about getting the Daesh head-chopper Jolani into Lebanon to take on Hezbollah because he thinks he'd do a better job than Israel. lol, just absolutely cracked!

you'd think the leader of the world's most powerful military (or its most expensive anyway lol) having the same logic as a small child would be more interesting than it is in reality

send in the MMA fighter

s

Of course Israel maybe forced out of Lebanon over the next few months anyway.

Hezbollah launched an attack tonight in which 4 Israeli soldiers were essentially incinerated.  I assume Israel will hit back very hard.  No MOU or final agreement will change who these terrorists are.

— Mark R. Levin (@marklevinshow) June 18, 2026

the heavy censorship regime in Israel can't hide how of a military disaster this has been for the IoF. Hopefully, morale is rock bottom, and desertion rates reach crisis level.

"essentially incinerated" Yes, I agree!

Posturing is easy. Facts are more challenging.

The US shut down Israel's Lavi fighter program for two very simple reasons:

1. It was an extraordinarily expensive program and the US was expected to pay for it.

2. It relied on key US components and technologies. It literally couldn't taxi out of a hangar without these US inputs. Yet it would have directly competed with US aircraft, inflicting yet further losses on the US economy.

Short version: The US shut down the Lavi because it was basically a US program.

Next time also have the integrity to tell your readers how Israel sold key technologies involved in the cancelled Lavi program, including US technologies, to China.

For further details see Dov Zakheim, Flight of The Lavi (1996). Zakheim was a senior Pentagon official during the Reagan administration tasked with investigating this program and played a key role in shutting it down.

On the US Israeli r/ship from Rabbani. In response to the below.

JD Vance likes to threaten Israel by pointing out how much of our weapons come from the US, but he completely ignores history. This dependency was manufactured by Washington. What does he want us to do, buy our jets from China? Or maybe he wants Israel to build its own?

Let's… https://t.co/sH8wIQYfnH pic.twitter.com/wA30hbv2Zq

— Ofer Binshtok - Kafir - עופר בינשטוק (@Ofer_binshtok) June 18, 2026

Some tough words from the Trump cabinet. Not suggesting US will get anywhere near cutting off relations but it's clear US will choose some stability in the global economy over Israel, and the discussion above points to the leverage US has.

Vance did the Zelensky talk to them. This seems a uniparty issue now because even the opportunistic ghoul HRC has criticised Israel.

Vance is an opportunist ghoul too, TBF

his silicon valley patrons (Thiel,Karp) and the groyper base he pals around with have opposite views on Israel

oh, yeah got no illusions that fraud has ever taken a principled stance in his life. Was just quite startled by HRC apparently changing her stance bearing in mind what she was saying only last year about critics of Israel.

Which criticisms are we talking about here? She published a piece in the FT asking everyone to back Trump's plans for Gaza a few hours ago, alas it is paywalled, is it in that?

here you go: https://archive.is/3Bodt

that's the FT piece. I'm not sure if calzino is referring to something else though? because I don't see anything v critical of Israel there and Israel's security remains the paramount concern. plus, the whole thing is premised on a lie—no alternative plans—meant to, I presume, shore up US hegemony in the region & preserve Israel's military domination over Palestinians. the idea that Palestinian sovereignty will somehow emerge from the plan is extremely dubious to me

Maybe this?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZvn26tvvhW/?igsh=MTV0Z2JveWVyMG5qdQ==

it was a video, In a conversation with New Yorker editor David Remnick. But never mind - sounds like nothing to see!

no that is interesting (in a weathervane way) and I hadn't seen it, thanks!

also sounds like she was backing the Gaza plan in same interview!

I'll have to take your word for it. her voice makes me want to die lol

meanwhile here's what Israel is up to today in Lebanon (12 airstrikes in 45 mins):
https://bsky.app/profile/ayoub.bsky.social/post/3monkmb76y22v

Very sad to learn that Mona Khalil died after weeks in the ICU following an Israeli strike that levelled her home in Mansouri. She was a very well-known environmental activist and dedicated her life to saving endangered turtles. She stayed in the south despite Israeli strikes… pic.twitter.com/fb7R8rQEHY

— Nada Maucourant Atallah (@MaucourantNada) June 19, 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ZY8nlbNWI

Hezbollah took out an Israeli Heron surveillance drone at 23000 ft this week, very high value catch and it damages Israel's ability to sell this drone to other rogue states. Jon Elmer of Electric Intifada does some excellent weekly reportage/analysis of what is happening on the ground in Lebanon from a resistance viewpoint. And also it usually features lots of boring technical stuff that I find interesting.

no shock to anyone paying attention, but it's good to see the UN put it in writing

The ​UN commission said in its report, released on Tuesday, that Palestinian children were deliberately targeted and killed during the ‌war, including after a ceasefire came into effect ‌in October 2025.

It said this was a key element in establishing genocidal intent by Israeli authorities and security forces to destroy the Palestinian group, in whole or in part, ‌in Gaza.

“The evidence shows that Palestinian children have been deliberately targeted and killed by the Israeli security forces,” said Srinivasan Muralidhar, the commission’s chair, in a statement accompanying the report.

No shock to anyone but this racist hateful member of Netanyahu’s government has evil plans for Gaza ( this from Haaretz email)

During a visit to the southern Israeli city of Sderot on Monday, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said Israel is ready to begin building three Jewish settlements in the northern part of the Strip once "we receive the green light from the prime minister," arguing that "there's no security where there are no settlements."

The far-right minister, whose Religious Zionism party is struggling in election polls, added that "the IDF currently holds nearly 70 percent of the Gaza Strip. We must complete the conquest of the remaining territory, defeat Hamas and establish a belt of Jewish settlements that will serve as a security buffer" for Israeli communities that border Gaza.

it's astonishing (well, maybe not really lol) how ppl like mamdani (or brad lander!) have every utterance they make dissected for hints of antisemitism while actual israeli government officials are saying the most bloodthirsty genocidal shit conceivable

that is made possible by the fact that the average US voter has no idea what any israeli government officials are saying about anything.