have you quit the labour party yet?

journalists for self-proclaimed liberal publications are blithely repeating uncorroborated Israeli government propaganda thru all available channels, good to be reminded how the system works

Kay Burley spent most of yesterday being snippy with people on social media, it’s a wonder she finds time to broadcast!

See also: the Owen Jones/Margaret Hodge stramash on Sophy Ridge last night, notable for OJ being quite respectful but MH all over the place with ad hominem attacks.

she doesn't engage with any criticism of her gutter level Murdoch journalism, just does childish "I'm more famous than you" retorts or even worse - her troubling aubergine emojis!

On top of all that she is incredibly stupid.

Sadness in her eyes

This guy has massive power over candidate selection and the general direction of the labour party now, doesn't he

Maybe a bit less wild hyperbole would be the responsible way to react. https://t.co/dqR41Ntf1j

— Luke Akehurst (@lukeakehurst) October 13, 2023

@lukeakehurst
I'm astonished that having seen Hamas do what it has always wanted to do to Israelis on Saturday people can't see that the terrorist threat was the reason for the restrictions on Gaza's borders not vice versa.

cool plan bro

I do wonder how long they can maintain the position that Israel is abiding by international law because Netanyahu told Biden that they would.

None of them believe it. Victoria Derbyshire, of all people, could barely contain her contempt for Thornberry’s prevarication. Alicia Kearns, the Tory Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee has been pretty clear that Israel is acting illegally. I don’t think the public has ever been particularly pro-Israel, in general terms, but every bombed convoy of refugees is going to make unqualified support for Israel less popular.

However useful it is as a tool to discipline and alienate ‘the left’, there surely has to be a tipping point where it’s just not sustainable.

I read something relatively recently regarding a Labour minister at the start of the Iraq war, flitting between "We must stop Iraq from developing WMDs" and "We must stop Iraq from using its WMDs" interchangeably, and who then became angry at the interviewer saying it was logically impossible for both of these things to be true and that he should decide which formation he was going to do with. The piece said the minister (Straw?) became angry and said it was irrelevant, which I find striking, mainly because I have no real idea if he thought they were the same or not, or even if he thought anything at all

I think you're right in the public not being particularly pro-Israel, and for the most part support that exists is conditional not unconditional and maybe one notch up from lukewarm. At large UK public still kind of depoliticised on Palestine/Israel, and some of the gung-ho rhetoric seems designed to try and change that. I guess on the Labour side fear of looking weak traps them in a way more than the conservatives who in theory at least have more room for manoeuvre

Fear of being accused of antisemitism more than fear of being weak.

Probably a mixture of the two, though I wonder if the former is something just internalised now, even past when its no longer really needed (I'm still not that convinced that ever really resonated with the public even with all the hard work that was put into it)

In their desperation to destroy Corbyn and Corbynism they painted themselves into a corner by ramping up the antisemitism thing, now it can be used against them at any time and it will be.

I get that, but I think the main reason it had any success was that they were the ones doing it. Even then I'd say the success it had wasn't resounding. So while it could be used against them, unless they go along with it and also do it, I think its results will be limited. That being said, the fear of it happening is probably real and internalised.

But this feels closer to the gung-ho advocacy for Iraq than it does anything to do with that, I'm not sure the public is sufficiently politicised over this either though, these things need groundwork

Oh yeah, it's definitely reminiscent of Blair and Iraq/War on Terror.

In their desperation to destroy Corbyn and Corbynism they painted themselves into a corner by ramping up the antisemitism thing, now it can be used against them at any time and it will be.

― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 October 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Sure, but I think potential AS accusations have cornered much of the West. 'Holocaust-guilt' shuts down any conversation whatsoever.

seeing both Thornberry and Starmer getting caught flat-footed in the last few days has been amusing to watch because they clearly weren't prepared for even the mildest scrutiny. They got too used to being on easy street with the UK media playing along when the agenda was to completely finish off what remained of Corbyn in the party. It's not really a lot but I hate this party so much these days, seeing these frauds looking out of their comfort zone and quite exposed in a tv studio is about as much entertainment as I can get from UK politics.

Sure, but I think potential AS accusations have cornered much of the West. 'Holocaust-guilt' shuts down any conversation whatsoever.

In the US I can see that, not so sure about the UK and elsewhere though. Politicians are unconditional ride or die for Israel, sure, but I don't see much evidence that the public is. There's a disconnect on this, I don't think the politicisation is there.

It's never been anything like as bad in the UK as it is now, not really suprising given the hysteria over Corbyn.

How soon we forget...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/03/ed-miliband-david-cameron-row-gaza-israel-intensifies

i agree the UK public at large is probably not as pro Israel as the public face presented by pols and the media, but the Labour stance is also about pro NATO pro nation states pro The Rule of Law etc etc and there's more alignment there with public sympathies

it's a general world police hawkishness and it's sincere for the majority of the PLP

it seems weird that Ed's position 10 years ago can now be portrayed as an extreme one and an anti-Semitic position by the party and in UK media, and would likely get him instantly sacked from the shadow cabinet if he said it yesterday. Back then it seemed widely accepted as an uncontroversial one for a Labour LOTO even though there was obv some controversy, perhaps mainly amongst conservative Jews who'd likely not vote for him anyway, to Maureen Lipman he was pure evil.

Its ironic because as Tom D suggests, its a trap of Labour's own making - but also one they could just pack up and put away. Without their participation in the AS stuff, it would have gone nowhere (I say participation but they were largely in the driving seat. They could just stop the car, it doesn't work without them)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/weaponising-jewish-people-is-wrong-sadiq-khan-on-anti-semitism-ulez-and-the-upcoming-electoral-battle/

‘Weaponising Jewish people is wrong’: Sadiq Khan on anti-Semitism, Ulez and the upcoming electoral battl

It's wrong now, when the right people are in charge, but it was very good before

gotta hand it to Sadiq he's been totally consistent on oh hang on

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sadiq+khan+corbyn#ip=1

sorry wrong tag, fucking google

no idea why it won't past the Politics Home story

In the US I can see that, not so sure about the UK and elsewhere though. Politicians are unconditional ride or die for Israel, sure, but I don't see much evidence that the public is. There's a disconnect on this, I don't think the politicisation is there.

― anvil, Saturday, 14 October 2023 bookmarkflaglink

France have outlawed protests and I've seen heavy police presence in Germany.

The heavy police presence in Germany is very noticeable, but whether we see something similar in the UK in regard to heavy public support for Israel I think looks unlikely at this stage,

Ed Miliband could criticise Israel because he’s Jewish, but that made him the wrong sort for people like Maureen Lipman (who immediately phoned a client journalist to say she was withdrawing support for Labour). Don’t forget that he made the two-state solution official party policy and pissed off all the Israel hawks. When he was subject to antisemitic proxy attacks on his ‘disloyal’ dad in right-wing papers, very few people (apart from eg. Owen Jones and Jeremy Corbyn) pointed out the tropes involved.

The sort of people who ‘Labour antisemitism’ worked on (and helped to whip it up on the right of Labour) were mostly centrist Remainers and media liberals with reach. The same people who thought it was awfully funny to call Peter Mandelson ‘Prince of Darkness’ or a puppet master or whatever, because he was their guy.

For my sins, I watched Question Time on Thursday. JC editor Jake Wallis Simons said that he still didn’t want to support Starmer because he served in Corbyn’s shadow cabinet - that will definitely become a thing during the general election campaign. A Muslim kid in the audience tried to call Simons out for his Islamophobia and related posts on social media and got a ‘sorry if I offended you’-style apology… barf.

Simons straight lied in denying he'd said the exact thing that he had in fact said that his Muslim interlocutor quoted to him

obv the BBC have said nothing about that

He’s ex-Daily Mail, surfuckingprise.

Simons is awful. The dip in support for the Labour Party among the UK Jewish community started with Miliband ironically enough.

Wonder if today’s when Labour revoke Corbyn’s membership for appearing at the big demo - David Evans (current chairman) sent an email to MPs etc saying they/high profile Lab members weren’t to participate in any protests sympathetic to Palestinians (he also sent it to CLP leaders).

Corbyn condemned the Hamas attacks at the start of his speech of course.

He did.

Mandelson of course recently raised his head to remind us that the party is now his again

In highly critical comments about Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn, he also said the last decade before Keir Starmer’s leadership had seen the party with “weak policies, weak unity, weak leaders: weak, weak, weak”.

“We failed as a party to offer a proper alternative to the Conservatives and that is the importance of what Keir has done: reclaiming the Labour party and switching us back from weird to normal is what he has done and I congratulate him,” he said.

One thing you can't say is weak is the doublespeak. Up is down, day is night.

He should’ve been bounced when he had to resign cabinet for the second time.

being best mates with a rapist/sex trafficker of minors and hanging around his house is what someone with a weak sense of morality does.

Not to mention Russian gangsters oligarchs.

However useful it is as a tool to discipline and alienate ‘the left’, there surely has to be a tipping point where it’s just not sustainable.

― ShariVari, Saturday, 14 October 2023 bookmarkflaglink

The cunt is starting to back down a bit. Have seen this from Biden too.

A week ago we awoke to the unimaginable and heartbreaking news of terrorist attacks on Israel from Gaza by Hamas.

We repeat our call for Hamas to release all hostages immediately, and for the protection of innocent civilian lives in Israel and Gaza.

My statement: pic.twitter.com/i3e1J8T5Bf

— Keir Starmer (@Keir_Starmer) October 14, 2023

If you’re on Insta, go look at the comment Owen Jones left on the statement. Totally read him for filth.

to defend herself

what is a woman

The cunt is starting to back down a bit.

I think the politicians are way out in front of the public on this, and I don't think they're going to take public with them either (might have been possible to some degree if Israel had waited before responding). As ShariVari stated thats not sustainable. There aren't Israeli flags flying in Ulverston and Swadlincote and there aren't going to be

There doesn't have to be Israeli flags anywhere. Beyond what the opposition does I can see the current UK government holding right through the next few weeks. No sweat.

Very funny.

Horrific violence that violates fundamental norms of humanity has claimed the lives of over 1,200 in Israel and 1,400 Palestinians, including 447 children.

The way that war is conducted matters. The IRC is calling on the international community to ensure the following: (1/8)

— David Miliband (@DMiliband) October 14, 2023

Be interesting to see if OJ urges people to vote Lab in a year.