have you quit the labour party yet?

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lol

The fact that Starmer keeps mentioning the Union shows he's making a concerted effort to steal the Loyalist bigot vote in Scotland from the Tories.

Inevitably keith's arc gonna end with him emulating brass eye's wanking senator

https://media.tenor.com/IYiD-6M6etMAAAAM/dirty-old-man-you-dirty-old-man.gif

Conspiracy theory falls down because Starmer looks like he's shitting himself - over some posh boy with some glitter in his hand.

On a serious note, how the fuck did that guy to the stage without the intervention of hired goons?

Keir Starmer's conference speech "best in 20 years" | Lord Mandleson

"he's passionate ... he demonstrates huge conviction"

Starmer joins the friends of Peter Mandleson with a huge conviction

Conversation at work this morning.

Colleague #1: "I see Keir Starmer got covered in glitter yesterday".
Colleague #2: "Who? Who's that?"

This could guy could still have been a plant, they just didn't tell Starmer cos he's stupid and everyone hates him

True.

It's great how the hacks tried to spin this as "cool in the face of an evil protestor" and then you see the footage and he"s literally frozen in fear

“I think that Israel does have that right.”

Sir Keir Starmer tells @NickFerrariLBC that it is acceptable for Israel to withhold power and water from citizens in Gaza. pic.twitter.com/S1L5nftyG5

— LBC (@LBC) October 11, 2023

Even by his standards, this is pretty remarkable.

He’s clearly been primed to just say ‘Israel has the right to defend herself and Hamas must bear primary responsibility’ as many times as possible. When asked about something he knows perfectly well is illegal under any circumstances, he starts down the same road, then tries to insert a caveat, before going back to saying the line again.

a human rights lawyer basically saying nah fuck the Geneva Conventions because that is what towing the party line requires.

... the party line of the right wing press.

it's all good he's not acting as a lawyer so he can just say whatever he likes and we shouldn't assume this will reflect his attitude to international law if he was to become prime minister

plus he's backed by Labour members with an absolutely unblemished record of respecting international law

yesterday Lammy pulled out of a public event to avoid sharing a platform with the Palestinian ambassador who was falsely accused of saying "Israel had it coming" by the loathsome liar, Kay Burley. The same ambassador lost 6 members of his family in the Gaza reprisals. He is way too thoughtful and guarded to say anything as inflammatory as that, it was a total stitch up.

journalists for self-proclaimed liberal publications are blithely repeating uncorroborated Israeli government propaganda thru all available channels, good to be reminded how the system works

Kay Burley spent most of yesterday being snippy with people on social media, it’s a wonder she finds time to broadcast!

See also: the Owen Jones/Margaret Hodge stramash on Sophy Ridge last night, notable for OJ being quite respectful but MH all over the place with ad hominem attacks.

she doesn't engage with any criticism of her gutter level Murdoch journalism, just does childish "I'm more famous than you" retorts or even worse - her troubling aubergine emojis!

On top of all that she is incredibly stupid.

Sadness in her eyes

This guy has massive power over candidate selection and the general direction of the labour party now, doesn't he

Maybe a bit less wild hyperbole would be the responsible way to react. https://t.co/dqR41Ntf1j

— Luke Akehurst (@lukeakehurst) October 13, 2023

@lukeakehurst
I'm astonished that having seen Hamas do what it has always wanted to do to Israelis on Saturday people can't see that the terrorist threat was the reason for the restrictions on Gaza's borders not vice versa.

cool plan bro

I do wonder how long they can maintain the position that Israel is abiding by international law because Netanyahu told Biden that they would.

None of them believe it. Victoria Derbyshire, of all people, could barely contain her contempt for Thornberry’s prevarication. Alicia Kearns, the Tory Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee has been pretty clear that Israel is acting illegally. I don’t think the public has ever been particularly pro-Israel, in general terms, but every bombed convoy of refugees is going to make unqualified support for Israel less popular.

However useful it is as a tool to discipline and alienate ‘the left’, there surely has to be a tipping point where it’s just not sustainable.

I read something relatively recently regarding a Labour minister at the start of the Iraq war, flitting between "We must stop Iraq from developing WMDs" and "We must stop Iraq from using its WMDs" interchangeably, and who then became angry at the interviewer saying it was logically impossible for both of these things to be true and that he should decide which formation he was going to do with. The piece said the minister (Straw?) became angry and said it was irrelevant, which I find striking, mainly because I have no real idea if he thought they were the same or not, or even if he thought anything at all

I think you're right in the public not being particularly pro-Israel, and for the most part support that exists is conditional not unconditional and maybe one notch up from lukewarm. At large UK public still kind of depoliticised on Palestine/Israel, and some of the gung-ho rhetoric seems designed to try and change that. I guess on the Labour side fear of looking weak traps them in a way more than the conservatives who in theory at least have more room for manoeuvre

Fear of being accused of antisemitism more than fear of being weak.

Probably a mixture of the two, though I wonder if the former is something just internalised now, even past when its no longer really needed (I'm still not that convinced that ever really resonated with the public even with all the hard work that was put into it)

In their desperation to destroy Corbyn and Corbynism they painted themselves into a corner by ramping up the antisemitism thing, now it can be used against them at any time and it will be.

I get that, but I think the main reason it had any success was that they were the ones doing it. Even then I'd say the success it had wasn't resounding. So while it could be used against them, unless they go along with it and also do it, I think its results will be limited. That being said, the fear of it happening is probably real and internalised.

But this feels closer to the gung-ho advocacy for Iraq than it does anything to do with that, I'm not sure the public is sufficiently politicised over this either though, these things need groundwork

Oh yeah, it's definitely reminiscent of Blair and Iraq/War on Terror.

In their desperation to destroy Corbyn and Corbynism they painted themselves into a corner by ramping up the antisemitism thing, now it can be used against them at any time and it will be.

― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 October 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Sure, but I think potential AS accusations have cornered much of the West. 'Holocaust-guilt' shuts down any conversation whatsoever.

seeing both Thornberry and Starmer getting caught flat-footed in the last few days has been amusing to watch because they clearly weren't prepared for even the mildest scrutiny. They got too used to being on easy street with the UK media playing along when the agenda was to completely finish off what remained of Corbyn in the party. It's not really a lot but I hate this party so much these days, seeing these frauds looking out of their comfort zone and quite exposed in a tv studio is about as much entertainment as I can get from UK politics.

Sure, but I think potential AS accusations have cornered much of the West. 'Holocaust-guilt' shuts down any conversation whatsoever.

In the US I can see that, not so sure about the UK and elsewhere though. Politicians are unconditional ride or die for Israel, sure, but I don't see much evidence that the public is. There's a disconnect on this, I don't think the politicisation is there.

It's never been anything like as bad in the UK as it is now, not really suprising given the hysteria over Corbyn.

How soon we forget...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/03/ed-miliband-david-cameron-row-gaza-israel-intensifies

i agree the UK public at large is probably not as pro Israel as the public face presented by pols and the media, but the Labour stance is also about pro NATO pro nation states pro The Rule of Law etc etc and there's more alignment there with public sympathies

it's a general world police hawkishness and it's sincere for the majority of the PLP

it seems weird that Ed's position 10 years ago can now be portrayed as an extreme one and an anti-Semitic position by the party and in UK media, and would likely get him instantly sacked from the shadow cabinet if he said it yesterday. Back then it seemed widely accepted as an uncontroversial one for a Labour LOTO even though there was obv some controversy, perhaps mainly amongst conservative Jews who'd likely not vote for him anyway, to Maureen Lipman he was pure evil.

Its ironic because as Tom D suggests, its a trap of Labour's own making - but also one they could just pack up and put away. Without their participation in the AS stuff, it would have gone nowhere (I say participation but they were largely in the driving seat. They could just stop the car, it doesn't work without them)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/weaponising-jewish-people-is-wrong-sadiq-khan-on-anti-semitism-ulez-and-the-upcoming-electoral-battle/

‘Weaponising Jewish people is wrong’: Sadiq Khan on anti-Semitism, Ulez and the upcoming electoral battl

It's wrong now, when the right people are in charge, but it was very good before

gotta hand it to Sadiq he's been totally consistent on oh hang on

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sadiq+khan+corbyn#ip=1

sorry wrong tag, fucking google

no idea why it won't past the Politics Home story

In the US I can see that, not so sure about the UK and elsewhere though. Politicians are unconditional ride or die for Israel, sure, but I don't see much evidence that the public is. There's a disconnect on this, I don't think the politicisation is there.

― anvil, Saturday, 14 October 2023 bookmarkflaglink

France have outlawed protests and I've seen heavy police presence in Germany.

The heavy police presence in Germany is very noticeable, but whether we see something similar in the UK in regard to heavy public support for Israel I think looks unlikely at this stage,