Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

My dad says "I love you" all the time; I'm the one who hesitates.

I say "I love you" to male friends, straight and gay.

I feel uncomfortable even clicking on this thread

― fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.)

It could only have been your natural timidity that stopped you.

some of these poll respondents may need to just.... man up

It could only have been your natural timidity that stopped you.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 8, 2023 12:14 PM

It's obvious you're not a woman.

I'd be curious to see the results for "being naked in a women's changing room"

I’m honestly surprised those numbers aren’t worse - less than half having negative feelings about those situations is a much better than result than I would’ve guessed.

Unrelated to the current discussion but I only just learned that testosterone doesn’t cause/increase aggression, but rather reinforces social status behaviors, good and bad.

would you mind sharing where you learned that?

That poll could just as easily have been posted into the 'Irrationally Embarrassed' thread. I can see where it's all too easy to conflate "maleness and masculinity" with the standards and taboos inflicted upon men in our own society, if only because masculinity is a social construct masquerading as a universal. But just as the USA is not the world, many of these artifacts of our personal acculturation have only an accidental association with maleness and masculinity.

"being naked in a women's changing room"

Primitive Radio Gods iirc

That poll could just as easily have been posted into the 'Irrationally Embarrassed' thread. I can see where it's all too easy to conflate "maleness and masculinity" with the standards and taboos inflicted upon men in our own society, if only because masculinity is a social construct masquerading as a universal. But just as the USA is not the world, many of these artifacts of our personal acculturation have only an accidental association with maleness and masculinity.

Agree with this 100%. Would love to know more in general about manifestations of masculinity around the world — I remember watching an Indian-Canadian comedian talking about going to India and seeing pairs of male friends walking down the street holding hands.

I'm wearing a pink shirt right now

I'm wearing a pink shirt right now

As am I.

I can’t tell what color my shirt is due to the aura of my ball tanning device class action lawsuit.exe

Me, crying, naked in the men’s changing room below the gay bar, having removed my pink clothes, while applying sunscreen on the back of a man with whom I reluctantly share a bed: “l love you”

it's really surprising to me that, according to this poll, women are far more uncomfortable than men w/ being nude in a locker room. i would've thought those numbers would be flipped. my hypothesis is that because women don't have penises that need comparison, the appeal of being naked in front of others of the same sex doesn't hold the same appeal that it does for men.

i'm now thinking about how i was at wi spa in LA (korean spa that separates by gender & then enforces nudity) last saturday afternoon and there were so many guys there -- the majority of them straight, in my perception -- that you had to queue to get into the sauna and steam rooms at points

4% of men being uncomfortable dining with a same-gender friend at a restaurant. that's comedic levels of panic.

i really wanna have dinner w/ each of those respondents

not particularly comfortable spreading suncream on anyone elses back tbh but i mean it doesnt come up that often in Ireland

― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac),

Try it sometime. You'll get a woody.

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

do they even have those in ireland? i only know them from old beach boys songs

male friends walking down the street holding hands

this used to be much more common in the west as well iirc

i'm just thinking about the type of guy who would be uncomfortable dining with a male friend at a restaurant. that is an intense amount of insecurity. i couldn't bear to witness that. side question, is "i'm extremely straight" an aphrodisiac for these guys? it seems kinda kinky tbh.

What makes men uncomfortable?

Hanging out in the "down low" tent at Burning Man ??%

first one is the only one I feel uncomfortable with, but I also have discomfort being naked in front of anybody of any gender identification because I think I'm coarse and ugly

― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal)

yeah, the 67% for women is probably because, to the best of my understanding, cis women are basically taught from birth to think of themselves that way lol

i actually _like_ my body, which is... rare for someone like me, but i can't imagine the idea of anybody _else_ finding me attractive

shout-outs to the 9% of women who feel uncomfortable wearing pink, fuck patriarchal gender expectations

alternately they could be like me and avoid wearing pink because it clashes with their skintone

crying is, to be fair, at least... i have to be comfortable with crying in front of anyone and everyone at any time. i went in for a routine medical procedure yesterday and cried through the whole thing. i didn't really _want_ to cry through the whole appointment, and i wasn't crying for any reason that had to do _with_ the appointment. that's just where my head was at that time. so i'm not sure it's _entirely_ down to social norms.

i don't usually cry in front of people, but it's like, i feel like i'm often trying to pretend i haven't been crying as i enter the presence of people.

i bet it feels good to just fuckin cry nonetheless.

I get weepy every time I see the new Publix commercial.

I had my tear ducts removed at an early age, just to avoid ever being seen to cry in public.

i bet it feels good to just fuckin cry nonetheless.

― ꙮ (map)

the literal reason i started hrt was because i was sad and i wanted to be able to cry and i couldn't

it depends. crying is good a lot of the time. if i feel better after, it's a good cry. if i don't feel better after, that's not so good.

i can only feel comfortable if i'm around other straight cis men who are naked and crying

maybe go to the down low tent at burning man during a dust storm?

i can only feel comfortable if i'm around other straight cis men who are naked and crying

― Tracer Hand

you're that into the mythopoetic men's movement, huh?

my hypothesis is that because women don't have penises that need comparison, the appeal of being naked in front of others of the same sex doesn't hold the same appeal that it does for men.

Probably the reason the scariest scene in Carrie is the locker room and not the prom. 🫠

Otm — was gonna say that women judge themselves and each other harshly with their clothes ON

Map, it was a TikTok of a well known professor but I can’t remember his name and I can’t find the video. But if you google “testosterone and social behavior” a lot of studies/articles about it come up.

there's scene in the 1994 The Browning Version where Albert Finney starts crying like an old man who has not cried since childhood, and it's just the gut-wrenching painful sobs, that scene fucking killed me

xp ty!

Being naked in a men's changing room: Eh, it was uncomfortable the first few times I went to a gym as an adult, but now it's one of those things I just accept and don't think too hard about
Crying in front of male friends: Crying in front of anyone is uncomfortable to me!
Saying "I love you" to a male relative: Depends on the relative
Going to a gay bar: I've done it, it was unremarkable, was a little confused by the arrangement of the bathroom
Putting sunscreen on a male friend's back: idk I just use spray-on sunscreen
Sharing a bed with a male friend: Nah, get yer own bed
Wearing pink: I have a few coral t-shirts but any other shade of pink does not look good on me

get a life!

xp I love my straight male friends who are even the least bit open to difference, but you sound very close-minded

straight men should learn to love themselves and each other and maybe even kiss a guy or two, then there’ll be world peace

― ivy., Friday, September 8, 2023 11:18 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I hereby volunteer to be the kissee :)

i rub in spray-on sunscreen: am i wasting my time or just looking for an excuse to bro down or what

like it doesn't take as much moby-dick-style kneading as the regular and no doubt highly freighted stuff but yknow to get an even coat.

get a life!

i'm trying!

I love my straight male friends who are even the least bit open to difference, but you sound very close-minded

was this to me? man I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was coming off like a jerk. I was just thinking about my own personal experiences with the things mentioned

I'm ready to rub sunscreen on your backs, I'll only kiss you if you're nice.

(I should clarify that "get yer own bed" is not specifically towards male friends)

It sounds like the only way we'll possibly work through this is to hold an ILX men's retreat featuring lots of kissing and sunscreen application therapy.

sorry crüt, I know you aren't a jerk

lol Moodles

I'm down