David Fincher -- c/d?

so contrarianism then. thats kind of what i thought.

its nihilism is boring and self-congratulatory and the basic premise is a bunch of nonsensical macho fantasy bullshit

the basic premise is a bunch of nonsensical macho fantasy bullshit

O RLY???

this is going to get into a source material problem again i think. not that i agree w/your summary, but you can hardly blame fincher for that. xpost

hey he made the movie

similar to what i said about tdk & all adaptations: who gives a shit about the source, & why is that in any way relevant to the discussione??

its basic premise IS a bunch of nonsensical macho fantasy bullshit, like, literally - i dont get how thats a valid criticism

Shakes, have you read the Palahniuk? It's more a tap-in to depressive/sadomasochistic issues than "macho bullshit."

who gives a shit about the source, & why is that in any way relevant to the discussion

Because, except for a little wobbling before the climax, it's a fairly faithful adaptation (tho a tad more romantic-comedy) and reading it might help people who are seeing things in the film that ain't there.

FC being about nihilism doesn't make it nihilist.

guy seems like a terrible writer from the flip-through I gave it. granted that was years ago.

most of his other books are much worse

FC>Zodiac>Seven>Alien3>The Game>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Panic Room

almost otm though i would switch zodiac and fight club and put a lot more distance between the game and alien 3

i disliked the movie for its 90s-style ahistoricism. ends on a 'revolutionary' note w/o even a hint of real politics leading up to, beyond contempt for ikea and fat women. seemed to reconfirm every stereotype that men of my generation are clueless. bolsheviks, who are they duuuude

how is a conclusion wherein the protagonist kisses his g/f with half his head blown off while buildings explode all around him NOT nihilistic?

(ftr the split-second porn insert is a much-needed bit of levity and I appreciated it)

x-post

ends on a 'revolutionary' note w/o even a hint of real politics leading up to, beyond contempt for ikea and fat women. seemed to reconfirm every stereotype that men of my generation are clueless. bolsheviks, who are they duuuude

yeah this really REALLY bothered me too. movie reduces insurrectionary politics to "lets blow stuff up hurhrurhur - oh wait I R SAD"

the problem is that shakey isnt seeing anything that isnt there hes just being a stubborn dick about it

wtf goole??? xps

One of my best friend's thesis is on Chuck P. He didn't listen to me.

i think you guys are confusing the characters being psycho dicks with the movie endorsing their viewpoint.

shakey & goole = stalin + tolstoy

explain to me how the movie is critical of their viewpoint

or else its OFF TO THE GULAG

oh no, omar otm?

spending time with people who love fight club did more than anything else to make me never want to think about it again

the cult's Iron Johnish myth is just one more sales pitch, the narrator comes to realize

fight club FAILED as a movie because it did not start THE REVOLUTION

xp 2 max who doesnt love fight club other than wannabe commie insurrectionists

i'd say the main plot is a bit of a traditional rom-com...hero learns to grow up and accept love (yawn, right). in fact id even suggest that a certain reading of the movie would say that it's MARLA who really saves the narrator and that Tyler was the last gasp, the nihilistic burst of freedom, needed to set that process of maturation in motion.

as Aldous Huxley said, fascism responds to real human needs, we just need to be grown up enough to resist them, to an extent.

morbius i am consistently otm everywhere i go

'the movie doesn't endorse their viewpoint' is the oldest apologist trick in the book -- viz a viz kubrick fans claiming for thirty years that a clockwork orange doesn't endorse alex despite the fact that he's glamorous and cool and charismatic and everyone else in the movie is portrayed as ugly and square.

"Tyler, I appreciate everything you've done for me, but this is too much." it's right in the dialogue, brahs.

the cult's Iron Johnish myth is just one more sales pitch, the narrator comes to realize

ummm really. is that why he shoots himself in the face.

that said i kinda like fight club, but dirty harry prob dealt with the same issues a lot more coherently.

i have no idea what the book is like, for the record

the movie wanted to have its outlaw character win, so revolution it is, bombs away. but it had the typical hollywood allergy to real politics, so the motivation gets chalked up to male depression and office drone uselessness, not any kind of program. that's just nuts, it's like, you do realize that people have blown up the state and taken over, in the 20th century, a couple times?

if it's not endorsing their view it's at least holding them up as a potentiality to fear, which is pretty congratulatory, in a way -- falling down redux?

deeznuts stfu and learn to read

many xps

I mean come on escaping a destructive cult by an act of self-mutilation, how is that not completely nihilistic

x-post

in fact, i'd say it's pretty touching that the movie suggests that, you know, real human love and connection (the image of them holding hands as the world collapses all around them) is the only salvation in the materialist hell portrayed at the beginning of the film.

frankly a better revolutionary ending would have calm and fair minded public employees figure out what was going on, capture him and lock him up.

^^^^lolz

"it had the typical hollywood allergy to real politics, so the motivation gets chalked up to male depression and office drone uselessness, not any kind of program. that's just nuts"

wtf goole??

xp ok this man is a troll

also, Brad Pitt will never be that motherfucking hot again.

The film and book aren't particularly interested in 'real' politics.

escaping a destructive cult by an act of self-mutilation

Shakey, you know I luv ya, but cmon, that face-shooting bit is totally in la-la land, making it way clear by then that it's likely a symbolic act / fantasy to rid himself of the alterego.

'the movie doesn't endorse their viewpoint' is the oldest apologist trick in the book

it's also pretty much true, not only for this movie but for a lot of movies from the past 100 years or so. some movies have speeches about how bad these shitty characters are, and some just kind of show how shitty they are and expect you to be smart enough to figure that out yourself.

I think i would agree that FC drops the ball on any potential political readings...there is a bit of incoherence on that front. One might say it is nihilistic because it DOES seem to me to recoil from any political statement. maybe that's cowardice, maybe it's saying that there sincere limits to the political.

real human love and connection (the image of them holding hands as the world collapses all around them) is the only salvation in the materialist hell portrayed at the beginning of the film.

except that, you know, the implication is that mass murder and property destruction on a grand scale were required for them to reach that completely banal rom-com conclusion

well, yeah! it's a funny movie.

IT'S ONE MAN'S DERANGED FANTASY

OFTEN MATCHING UP WITH MINE

on another point, i don't think we should use the subsequent popularity of "alex" halloween costumes and the real-life fight clubs as something indicative of anything other than people "not getting it".

that face-shooting bit is totally in la-la land, making it way clear by then that it's likely a symbolic act / fantasy to rid himself of the alterego.

I guess - pretty nihilistic symbolism going on there nonetheless (not to mention lovingly shot and made as grotesque as possible)

there are sincere lols to be had! i love the cop banging on the door when marla threatens suicide. "you have every reason to live!"

some movies have speeches about how bad these shitty characters are, and some just kind of show how shitty they are and expect you to be smart enough to figure that out yourself.

so is 'scarface' meant to be taken as a sober cautionary story about how you shouldn't be violent and snort coke?

"limits to the political" is some terrible stuff, btw -- there are things we can do about the credit card companies, you know, short of dynamiting their buildings. grow up!

i wonder why parents ever worried about their kids playing 'mortal kombat' -- it's really about how shitty it would be if all you had to do was fight all day