Greta Gerwig's Barbie movie

hahahaha

I completely agree though

When my wife and I went to Crate and Barrel after seeing Barbie, somehow it came up when chatting with the clerk ringing us up and she told us how much she loved it and cried at America Ferrera’s speech about the demands of modern womanhood.

I groaned through several portions of this movie, but when I saw the young women crying during the speech about patriarchy, I realized this thing isn't about me or for me.

yeah there was a group of women behind me laughing uproariously at every little joke… idk man

They wanna talk about Barbie's speeches, I wanna fuck Ryan Gosling, something for everyone, man

I don’t mean this sarcastically, but what thoughts did it provoke for you?

cried at America Ferrera’s speech about the demands of modern womanhood.

I mean I felt that scene was the central message the film was trying to convey, and said so many unspoken realities it was practically audacious (but that's the point - it shouldn't be audacious to say those things, and it's a tragedy that is the state of things to begin with). In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Gerwig signed up for this project in order to deliver that specific missive directly to an impressionable, young, female audience. I was thinking all that as I was watching it, and was in awe of it. The movie was a love letter to women, but also a love letter to independent, critical thinking, and to the concept of identity independent of a sexual partner, which has obviously been much more of pressure applied to women than men, historically.

I'm actually quite surprised at how many here missed all that, I guess. It was pretty clear this movie wasn't for me in the first 5 minutes.

I'll also confess we bought a bottle of prosecco rosé at the theater to enjoy whilst watching it, and that was by far one of the most on point and best movie concession decisions ever, so pardon my "rose tinted glasses".

It was pretty clear to me at least that there was humor and sarcasm mixed with very direct, earnest messaging (which is in and of itself, a common trope in these types of films anyway). I suppose it's challenging for many to figure out which is which?

The movie had good jokes, which is definitely for me (who is not a woman).

I havent seen this and prob wont unless we happen to pyrate it, but yeah its very clearly a Film For Women, given how copiously women are cheering and crying, and some men are getting hilariously, insanely angry about it.

I thought Diablo Cody's thoughts about why she was unable to write a screenplay for this when she was hired for it was illuminating. https://www.gq.com/story/barbie-movie-first-attempts-amy-schumer-diablo-cody

"Five years later, Cody has some ideas about what went wrong. “I think I know why I shit the bed,” she tells GQ over the phone from Los Angeles. “When I was first hired for this, I don’t think the culture had not embraced the femme or the bimbo as valid feminist archetypes yet. If you look up ‘Barbie’ on TikTok you’ll find this wonderful subculture that celebrates the feminine, but in 2014, taking this skinny blonde white doll and making her into a heroine was a tall order.”

Cody remembers feeling like the artistic stakes were high, especially given the relative dearth of female-focused—or driven—IP. “There was a lot of pressure to not write the dramatic equivalent of ‘math is hard,’ she laughs. “I grew up playing with Barbies,” she says, “and those were sort of the first movies that I ever cast. A lot of people learn to tell stories by playing with dolls.” The plan had been to package Cody’s affectionate and idiosyncratic take on the character with an unconventional leading actress—specifically Amy Schumer, whose crass, confessional work as a stand-up and sketch comic gave her a certain counterculture credibility. It was, in theory, a terrific idea, but Cody recalls that the concept was ultimately less liberating than it seemed. “That idea of an anti-Barbie made a lot of sense given the feminist rhetoric of ten years ago,” says Cody. “I didn’t really have the freedom then to write something that was faithful to the iconography; they wanted a girl-boss feminist twist on Barbie, and I couldn’t figure it out because that’s not what Barbie is.” She cites a recent interview in which Gerwig told Robbie that the key to playing Barbie was a “lack of introspection” as an example of how complex—and contradictory—the material can be.
When Schumer finally dropped out in 2017—citing scheduling conflicts—the role was supposedly shifted to Anne Hathaway, but without much additional traction on the creative side. Cody notes that part of the problem was that The Lego Movie made for a daunting template, having managed so voraciously to have its cake and eat it too in terms of being both a satire and an act of brand extension. “I heard endless references to The Lego Movie in development,” she says, “and it created a problem for me because they had done it so well. Any time I came up with something meta, it was too much like what they had done. It was a roadblock for me, but now enough time has passed that they can just cast [The Lego Movie antagonist] Will Ferrell as the antagonist in a real-life Barbie movie and nobody cares.”

Huh, my wife highlighted Ferrara's speech as an example of the movie being kinda basic.

fwiw while I accept there's a lot of ppl who don't discuss gender issues at all I also don't think it's just the terminally online and academia in 2023 either - I certainly have noticed my more normie friends becoming more aware and thinking about this shit even if they're not, like, reading Judith Butler. I think the average Barbie audience's reaction is more likely to be "fuck yeah I agree with all of this" rather than "mind blown I'd never thought of it this way". And that's totally fine imo - catharsis at the movies is a good thing.

Yeah there was no Discourse around the Mario brothers film, that’s probably why.

Yes there was! An initial reaction of "god no why Chris Pratt when will we be rid of this dude" followed by the usual culture war (I believe brain damaged right wingers have been championing it as "anti woke").

i saw this with my five-year-old daughter at the weekend and i thought it was great - greta gerwig has directed three bangers in a row imo, and the leaps in ambition between each are pretty remarkable

i can't wait to see what she does next with the blank cheque that this movie will undoubtedly give her

i'm also looking forward to rewatching this with my daughter as she grows up because i'm sure she'll take something different away with her every time

One thing in Barbie that actually made me think a different way was the introduction— my wife and I hadn’t realized that Barbie was the first doll of an adult.

based on a German comic strip about a high end call girl! this would admitidely have been hard to fit into the narrative.

My wife's mom didn't like Barbies, so when my wife and her sister were growing up, she got them metal Tonka trucks to play with instead. My wife and her sister would dress up the Tonka trucks and have them gather for tea parties.

My mother banned Barbie dolls because she thought they would set unrealistic body images for my four sisters.

She would later jokingly lament that they all got Barbie-adjacent looks anyway; I decline to opine on this.

We didn't buy Barbies for own personal daughter but she sometimes got them as gifts. We didn't have the energy to resist. No one seems to have been harmed in the process.

We didn't buy them, either, but iirc they never asked. The one kid of ours that was into dolls was into American Girl Dolls, which seem to be all about the specific story and less about general fantasy play.

I did sort of appreciate the redundancy (for lack of a better word) of this movie's message (assuming it even really has a message). After all, the one stand-in for "kids today" in this movie is cynical, above it all, doesn't like Barbie, makes fun of Barbie and sees through Barbie by way of decades of criticism/debate. And yet, that doesn't stop the movie from didactically, explicitly setting up a pro/con dialectic. Just because it's obvious to many older or jaded or enlightened viewers doesn't make it less effective, and as my kids pointed out, sometimes it's nice to hear things said out loud for once. From my vantage, the meta commentary, fourth wall breaking and narration were all kind of a crutch to help support a movie that functionally doesn't have much of a story, but I guess I'd rather have a movie full of ideas and no story than a movie with a story but no ideas. 

We didn't buy Barbies for own personal daughter

This phrasing raises questions about your own...personal...daughter.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cNd4eocq2K0/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGUgTChCMA8=&rs=AOn4CLBh7dInVLaQT755SpLwuGP1Tla-xQ

My nieces played with Barbies, they no longer do. That's all.

Took my mom. She cried. But she never owned a Barbie, just Skipper

My mother banned Barbie dolls because she thought they would set unrealistic body images for my four sisters.

My mother banned Barbie dolls because they were overpriced, encouraged further purchases of overpriced fashion accessories we couldn't afford, and as far as she could see they weren't any better as toys than hand-me-down dolls from relatives.

My sisters liked Jem better *shrug*

so did I -- truly outrageous!

god if only gerwig had helmed the jem movie

Also: the average JEM plot was no worse than G.I. Joe's or Transformers -- same writers and animators.

The Misfits vs The Kens

Are we really discussing Barbie (the doll) now?

If so I will direct the jury's attention to razors and printers and Build-a-Bear and Calico Critters. American Girl is just an elevation of the same principle.

Gillette did very well with the model of selling you a handle of a razor (for not very much) with the expectation that you would keep buying replacement blades. Epson and its equivalents have done very well by selling you a printer with the expectation that you would keep buying toner cartridges.

Of COURSE part of the point of Barbie is that you would keep buying clothes and accessories. It is a well-known model.

We were discussing it, I don't think anyone was putting it on trial though. Anyway, I'll allow it, but watch yourself counselor.

My mother did not ban Barbies and I had several of them, including 90s notables Rollerblade Barbie, Hawaiian Barbie, and, of course, Baywatch Barbie, who came with a dolphin that made dolphin noises. The idea of playing mother to baby-type dolls repulsed me and Barbies were the only ones I'd interact with. Barbie's opening scene was pretty spot-on for my experience.

I had a fun time at this film and was happy that it was more absurd than I expected. I can agree with Daniel_Rf's wife about the America Ferrera monologue (and the following deprogramming quips montage) feeling a bit basic, but I think m bison's post is right, and I get how that part would resonate for other people more strongly.

Also, I thought this take on Barbie and 'girlhood culture' had some interesting and agreeable observations and may be of interest to others:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/barbie-movie-review-girlhood-greta-gerwig/674821/

"‘I’m doing the thing and subverting the thing,’ she told The New York Times. Yet the film feels more ambivalent about the thing, unsure of what exactly it wants to say about its corporate roots besides ‘they exist, we know.’"

really love this piece https://t.co/oVRgkIf9ul by @becbecliuliu @anothergaze

— Hannah Bonner (@HannahB40843697) August 1, 2023

Barbie's corporate ownership knows the value of Barbie as a brand and almost certainly retained a right of approval over the script, so that ambivalence about that Barbie's corporate roots may have been the only course Gerwig could safely steer to get their sign off.

Love to do everything I possibly can to get "sign off" by the manager.

that ambivalence about that Barbie's corporate roots may have been the only course Gerwig could safely steer to get their sign off.

Have you watched the film?

Alfred otm.

The movie is pretty freaking weird, but for me one of the weirdest things about it is the degree to which Mattel gleefully signed up to pay to satirize itself.

It's a very 2020s moment and I tentatively approve. Expect a Black Mirror episode soon.

another way to look at it is that mattel gleefully signed up to let greta gerwig make her third movie about mothers, daughters, and the sociteal expectations placed on both women and men that just happens to star barbie

It's not really that weird imo, cf all the anti-corporate jokes in 90's films or the recent films about an evil algorithm ruining creativity (new Space Jam did this) - they don't care as long as the money rolls in.

also as stated above Ferrel refuses to let the Ken reality stand even though it's profitable - because Mattel, in the end and for all their faults, care about the happiness of little girls above all else

another way to look at it is that mattel gleefully signed up to let greta gerwig make her third movie about mothers, daughters, and the sociteal expectations placed on both women and men that just happens to star barbie

otm

We've lingered enough. It's poll time: Barbenheimer: The inevitable poll

Finally saw this & really enjoyed it

My biggest takeaway was that I really felt like the heart of this movie (or the heart of the inspiration of the movie?) was that it is weirdly & specifically about 90’s feminism

the few years from like 1991 to 1994 where it felt like conversations were shifting & women centered ~things~ were just cooler & ideas about femininity were being challenged

then… SMASH CUT …. to aggro offspring numetal woodstock & girls are just drunk midriffs everywhere thongs-out uh, ok i’ll use my own wording at the time “slutfest”

and the going to war thing

like idk it all seems like it’s right there in this movie lol right down to Matchbox 20 and Gosling’s Kid Rock fur coat & guyliner

i don’t feel like i’m crazy to think that Gerwig was not indirectly kind of using that whole weird time & abrupt change to talk about bigger issues. it’s not perfectly 1:1 and she’s tackling a lot of things so it is kind of handwavey but it felt v clear to me lol

(also i have been listening to a ton of Bandsplain so i may just have nineties brain)

ALSO

rmde at all you nerds nerding this thread and literally no one bringing up how on point Barbie ~details~ were

Monolith barbie dressed identically to first Barbie!! Midge!!! Grown Up Skipper, Magic Earring Ken … the OUTFITS the HOUSES the SKI MOBILE the CAMPERVAN omg i was amazed

even Weird Barbie was deeeply hilariously accurate

sorry

i meant to say - part of why i saw the movie through that specific lens was also the repeated use of Indigo Girls — like, that song in my time in my late teens, it really & truly connoted a very specific kind of hopeful excitement within my circle of friends & women’s groups etc, this new perspective or something idk invigorating

and the way in just a few short years that that feeling was SO lost so fucking completely it made my head spin

haven't seen the film yet. I like these posts, VG

yeah great posts thx

You know something I caught that was kind of weird? Jamie Demetriou is in it, more than just a cameo but iirc he doesn't do anything more than some background mugging. But he's a funny guy! He would have made a better Mattel CEO than Will Ferrell.

“a podcast hosted by two wise young trees”

booming posts

I did love this, which will probably surprise no-one?

I briefly thought, during the last scene with Rhea Perlman, that Barbie's accent was turning more Australian, and fantasied that the final twist would be that she was turning into Margot Robbie.

All I saw was Simu Liu ad others eating his lunch

― fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Friday, 28 July 2023 19:23 (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

The Ken vs Ken angle was apparently birthed when Gerwig watched Gosling watching Liu nailing that backflip.

"Weird Barbie" is also barely weird at all

And got less weird as the film went on!

There's a cohort with an attitude that's gotten generally keener on equality as equality has gotten (slowly) closer - "hahaha careful now, we don't want to shoot past into where we're unfair against men!" - for them, I loved that the vibe at the end was "Well we've seen that the reverse of Barbieland is grossly inequitable, should we just go straight back to how we were?" "Yeah. Yeah, let's do that".