Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

With the actors going on strike too, it's probably going to be really thin calendars for a few years soon. But, good. Fuck the greedy asshole.

yeah, all these companies are going to use the strikes as a way to scale down their original programming

“Marvel is a great example of that. It had not been in the television business at any significant level, and not only did they increase their movie output, but they ended up making a number of TV series,” said Iger. “Frankly, it diluted focus and attention.”

Such a weird thing to say about a wing of your company that absolutely destroyed most box office records.

well, the movies did get significantly worse in the past few years

don't think the business wing cares as much about that.

Also I think it’s very much up for debate that the movies have gotten worse

The de-aged Samuel L Jackson in the TV series looks somehow better than in Capt Marvel.

the technology gets a little better every year

An interesting MCU side-effect is that when I dip into a recent Marvel TPB collection (as I do from time to time), the "stasis" of E-616 is startling... Tony's still alive, Natasha's still alive, everyone looks young... obviously the mainstream timeline was always like this (notwithstanding significant side-trips and fluctuations that almost always ended up reverting back to the mean), but it's thrown into contrast by the onscreen universe where actors age, characters die, etc.

Anyone watching Secret Invasion?

Is this the first time the shows have had some fairly significant plot points for the MCU?

I mean Maria Hill dying is maybe not that big a deal but Talos has had a pretty major role in recent films, so him being killed seems like a big thing to happen "off screen" for those that just watch the movies. (Although I'm still not convinced he's dead seeing as we've already had one fakeout this season with his daughter and that this is Marvel where numerous characters return after being killed).

I paused Secret Invasion while my kids are in town but I am excited to catch up on it

He appeared in the post-credit scene for the second Spider-Man film - other than that it's just Captain Marvel?

I suppose you might wonder what's going on with Wanda in the 2nd Dr. Strange movie if you hadn't watched Wandavision.

I “got it” from following the WandaVision thread, thankfully.

I feel like Super Skrull is a more compelling villain than Kang was in the Ant Man movie. Maybe they should pivot.

Meantime, new trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS_qbDztgVY

I just found out that the daughter of one of my coworkers was an editor on this and absolutely hated it, but this is not making me any less hype about the movie

Oh dear! (To her thoughts, not your hypeness.)

I only saw the first episode, but it kinda sounds like "Secret Invasion" is the first MCU show that no one liked at all.

I like it a lot but I’ve fallen behind

I was ambivalent at first but I really like Secret Invasion. The dystopian vibe is a nice change from the other Marvel shows & it’s weirdly enjoyable to see everyone mad at Nick Fury & him having to be accountable for the things he’s orchestrated

Jackson is really great in this, he gets to do a lot more dramatically-speaking than usual

pretty sure Ant Man 3 put the immediate brakes on my kid's Marvel interest. suggested reading the Wiki page for the second half of the film and moving on from there, and he's vv ambivalent. i actually didn't think it was that bad relatively speaking but i can understand it's all kinda wearying at this stage.

The scene at the end with all the Kangs in the stadium grunting and hooting was pretty fucked up

Ant Man was the first MCU film I haven't seen, period. Not in a hurry to either.

3, that is

we don't talk about Eternas

lol, Eternals

I mean, I liked Eternals but it didn’t need the sex scene

That was the first feature we all disliked as a family. (Coincidentally, we all also disliked "Nomadland," too)

I've got zero expectations for any of their movies until, maybe, "Fantastic Four," and even then, it seems questionable whether they can hit the 2025 release. The smart move, imo, would be to abandon/punt Kang as a villain and swap in Dr. Doom as a big bad. There was a rumored Doctor Doom standalone film in the works, which could have been a savvy way to reset this mess, but I suspect that Noah Hawley script got scrapped because he will pop up in Fantastic Four.

It'd be really funny if Kang tried some crap and Doom just showed up and knocked him off the field

It'd be pretty easy to do something like that at this point, all these future projects are delayed or otherwise in flux.

still no word from marvel on what they plan to do with Majors?

Remake Ant Man 3 four times with different Kangs and have fans vote on best candidate to replace him

Season 2 of Loki premieres in two and a half months and I'm sure Kang is supposed to show up there.

Disney can always delay it - it was already delayed at least once - but what they can't do right now, for any of their projects, is reshoots or rewrites. Or shoots and writing, period. So I dunno what they're going to do.

probably ignore the entire thing and shoot the movie with him

^^^

that's my guess. I'm guessing the results would be awful, but they could always recast and CGI the new actor in over what was shot.

I’d bet anything it’ll be canceled. I’d also bet anything that the announced film slate is completely overhauled.

Nah, I don't think wiping the slate will happen. If, and it's a big if given the wheels in motion, they'll ride out Loki s2 with Majors, then delay the films that he might be in and recast. Easy enough to write off with all those alternate Kangs. He just looks different.

I don’t think Iger is thrilled about Jake Schreier’s Thunderbolts in Christmas, 2024 or any of the announced “Phase Six” films. But, as a longtime DIS stockholder, I’m no closer to understanding Iger’s motivations (beyond the usual billionaire stuff of harvesting teenager blood).

You could also reasonably interpret Iger’s view from his recent comments as “costs are the problem.” Maybe we’ll still see everything but with much smaller budgets.

Yeah I have no doubt changes are coming, I think they'll scale back the TV shows first and maybe cut back on films per year for a bit. But hard not to imagine they are still going to go big with Fantastic Four and X-Men, just maybe in a few more years.

Man, I’d hate to be responsible for writing Fantastic Four. The timing sucks.

Fantastic Four is challenging because you’ve been robbed of the three elements that made me (and I assume many others) love the Fantastic Four: space, Americana, and Jack Kirby. “Superheroes in space” feels meaningless after Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, and Captain Marvel have zipped around the universe. Hell, even Spider-Man went to space! The Americana aesthetic doesn’t feel appropriate in the current era of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (i.e., after The Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame). Finally, Disney has evenly dabbled with a stronger visual identity (e.g., Eternals, Loki, Wandavision, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness) but they’d need to go way further and I expect much further than they’d want. I’d want uniquely stylish like The Wachowski Sisters, Wes Anderson, Sofia Coppola, etc.

X-Men is equally challenging. I’m skeptical Disney has any interest in tackling American prejudice and bigotry. But that has the benefit of being unannounced!

I think way too much about this crap! 🤣

It’s embarrassing but I had chills when watching these movies. When I was a kid I never thought I’d see my two favorite superheroes, Black Panther and Doctor Strange, in a movie. I just want them to be good!

I’m skeptical Disney has any interest in tackling American prejudice and bigotry

They tackled the plight of refugees in Captain Marvel; granted they were from space, but X-Men are similarly one step removed from actual reality.

Nah, I don't think wiping the slate will happen.

Eh, the slate is barely a slate. "Loki" is apparently in the can but has already been delayed/rescheduled once. "The Marvels" is in the can and has been delayed/rescheduled once. But "Captain America 4" (which has also been delayed/rescheduled once) is still in "post-production," which could very well mean nothing, considering there's currently no writing or reshoots on the table. "Thunderbolts" is in "pre-production," which doesn't mean much; filming hasn't even started. "Blade" is already on its second director and who knows what iteration of script/screenwriters, and has been bumped a few times, iirc; it's also in "pre-production." "Fantastic Four" is on its second director and second screenwriter(s). "Shang-Chi 2" is up in the air, the two upcoming "Avengers" films are practically no more than placeholders. I'd be shocked if most of the announced TV slate arrives any time soon; Filming reportedly wrapped on "Echo" a year ago, but Feige allegedly called it unreleasable and had it mostly reshot, so who knows what its status even is.

In a lot of ways I imagine Disney/Feige is breathing a sigh of relief at even the chance to pump the brakes a little. For sure the relative disappointments or failures of "Dial of Destiny" and "Elemental" and "Little Mermaid" probably gave them pause.

I think when they coming out with these multi-year schedules it can feel exhausting. Like we need fifteen movies and TV series to build up to....a fight between Kang and the Avengers?

be funny if as a result ofa ll of this, they adopt a monolithic development process that results in one new movie a decade

generational divides will be named for whether you were alive when Marvel was a multi-film/year enterprise or when it was a once/10 years thing

One 10-hour movie.