is there any clear way to distinguish between the national military and the Wagner troops and tanks etc? could be a lot of "friendly" casualties when this kicks off
― calzino, Saturday, 24 June 2023 10:04 (eleven months ago) link
I *think* so? at least regular russia military watchers seem to be able to tell (it's all khaki to me), and i'd say the same for people and troops on the ground (they have after all been taking potshots). that said, i suspect a lot of it is positional ('they're shooting at *me* from over *there*?! fire!'), and war is proverbially chaos so. yeah. therre are three types of fire it seems, enemy fire, friendly fire, frenemy fire.
― Fizzles, Saturday, 24 June 2023 10:07 (eleven months ago) link
actually probably the best answer to anything itt is 'who the fuck knows'.
― Fizzles, Saturday, 24 June 2023 10:09 (eleven months ago) link
Putin evoking 1917 as a betrayal of mother Russia is pure meltdom, what a dick!
― calzino, Saturday, 24 June 2023 10:12 (eleven months ago) link
getting conflicting reports on whether russia is a motherland or fatherland
― mookieproof, Saturday, 24 June 2023 10:36 (eleven months ago) link
Frank Lampard caretaker Russian President https://t.co/COP7vnjTIu— Shivam Manghnani (@shivamLM) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 10:39 (eleven months ago) link
This guy is the only one that seems to know for sure what he’s trying to do. https://t.co/7PEiVvzO7Y— Michael Kofman (@KofmanMichael) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 11:22 (eleven months ago) link
to what end? i do not see it ending up well for him or Wagner Group, senior generals are all issuing their statements in support of the Putin regime.
No idea at this stage but if there was no resistance in Voronezh or Rostov and they're confident enough to move east, south, and north from there all at once suggests something pretty well planned in advance. Depends if same happens in Krasnodar and Volgograd as Rostov and Voronezh
― anvil, Saturday, 24 June 2023 11:40 (eleven months ago) link
A surreal video. Prigozhin negotiating in Rostov with MoD's deputy ninister (left) and GRU's deputy chief Alexeev. Tells them he wants to Shoigu and Gerassimov handed over, and until he gets them Wagner will occupy Rostov and march on to Moscow. pic.twitter.com/tOcFDZMek2— Christo Grozev (@christogrozev) June 24, 2023
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 11:54 (eleven months ago) link
everyone writing off Prigozhin last night because he looks like he presents 'Wigan's hardest Bouncers' on Channel 5— jamie k (@jkbloodtreasure) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 13:09 (eleven months ago) link
Maybe it identifies as genderfluid. When will this liberal woke nonsense end?
― pomplamoose and circumstance (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:08 (eleven months ago) link
This fucking account back at it again. pic.twitter.com/Da5mLFOG7G— Elvis Buñuelo (@Mr_Considerate) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:09 (eleven months ago) link
your dad when he hears the Formula One bit of The Chain pic.twitter.com/jpMBxBeNmU— wariotifo (@wariotifo) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:14 (eleven months ago) link
I have a handful of friends in Moscow and Saint Petersburg, should I be concerned for their safety? I don’t know anything about politics and didn’t know anything about this Wagner Group until this morning. If it helps, they are all academics at technical schools.
― Allen (etaeoe), Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:24 (eleven months ago) link
I also ask because sanctions make it especially challenging to communicate (e.g., we have policies between MIT and Skoltech that can circumvent sanctions but we have strict policies about non-in-person communication).
― Allen (etaeoe), Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:26 (eleven months ago) link
seems unlikely that this will break out into a big civil war thats dangerous for civilians, i mean who knows where it leads but it looks like more of a coup right now, its not a very big group thats advancing toward moscow and we have footage of prigozhin negotiating with the russian military
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:32 (eleven months ago) link
having said that if the coup succeeds or even if it doesnt really its certainly uncertain times for russia, which was true a couple days ago too, and is more true now
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:34 (eleven months ago) link
That’s a relief. I should probably stop getting my news from Reddit.
― Allen (etaeoe), Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:35 (eleven months ago) link
the russian "news environment" is pretty interesting altogether, very post truth lol
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:37 (eleven months ago) link
I'm surprised at people itt not knowing anything (or much) about the Wagner Group and Prigozhin - suggests the war in Ukraine is not getting anything like the same coverage in the US/North America as over here?
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:37 (eleven months ago) link
yeah id think europe is prob more invested for obvious reasons, the war has gotten a lot of burn here but prob not as much, i know prigozhin but i may have been watching some sicko youtubes
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:39 (eleven months ago) link
shd say im not a russia expert or even enthusiast i have been following the war but i think my observations re the current sitch are pretty obvious
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:40 (eleven months ago) link
⚡️A man in uniform and with a machine gun orders burgers in Rostov's Tasty (most probably Wagner) pic.twitter.com/SSPO2jh4Fp— War Monitor (@WarMonitors) June 24, 2023
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:49 (eleven months ago) link
*watching putin getting overthrown by someone calling himself "The Humongous"* happy pride yall— Helldude Classic (@allahliker) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 14:51 (eleven months ago) link
I've been following the war pretty carefully this whole time -- haven't said much about it, don't feel like I can add much -- but I'd heard about Wagner and Prigozhin before thanks to Syria in particular. But yeah I'd say we're talking a minority of even nominally tuned-in folks here in the US (in general, not this thread) knew anything about either of them here before yesterday.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 June 2023 15:15 (eleven months ago) link
I'd say, in the media over here, he's second only to Zelensky in the media coverage he gets, I feel like I see him ranting about something or other every other day.
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Saturday, 24 June 2023 15:25 (eleven months ago) link
Ros Atkins recap on Prigo
Putin is accusing Wagner mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin of treason. Prigozhin calls it a 'march for justice'. As the story escalates, here's a video from May about how, from the 80s to now, Prigozhin went from prison, to catering, to the Wagner group. pic.twitter.com/0yU36AFcBJ— Ros Atkins (@BBCRosAtkins) June 24, 2023
― nashwan, Saturday, 24 June 2023 15:45 (eleven months ago) link
inspiring
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 15:49 (eleven months ago) link
Prigozhin looks like an angry cartoon character who always has steam coming out of his ears. Someone was talking earlier about when Wagner group was all over Syria and on one occasion they got threatening close to some US special forces. The Pentagon contacted Moscow over it and were told "no they aren't ours, do as you will". So the US forces attacked them, inflicting hundreds of casualties! I think it's incidents like this that have made him even more radge.
― calzino, Saturday, 24 June 2023 15:52 (eleven months ago) link
i have to say, my “will be disruptive but nothing much to see here” of <checks notes> just this morning, looks like a worse call by the minute in light of prigozhin’s thunder run to moscow. however, he is committed to the war in ukraine, and i continue to think the impact there will be limited (no retreat by front line troops at the moment). all that said by by far the better predictive reasoning remains *who the fuck knows* <spins wheel>
― Fizzles, Saturday, 24 June 2023 15:54 (eleven months ago) link
Moscow mayor urges people to stay homeThe mayor of Moscow, Sergei Sobyanin has said in a statement that Moscow residents should refrain from trips around the city as far as possible given a counter-terrorism operation has been declared and said the situation was “difficult”, Reuters reports.
Sobyanin also said in the statement, released on Telegram, that Monday would be a “non-working day” in order “to minimise risks”.
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 16:04 (eleven months ago) link
I would have thought that the Russian military would have visibly confirmed their command chain by now, or at least soon. No one has seen Shoigu/Gerasimov since this began. There are rumors that their deputies are “at work” (Kim, Surovikin, etc) but no pictures or confirmation.— Dara Massicot (@MassDara) June 24, 2023
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 16:26 (eleven months ago) link
mariahcareyidontknowher.gif
“The history of mankind hasn’t yet seen the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons under control by bandits,” Medvedev said. “Such a crisis will not be limited by just one country’s borders, the world will be put on the brink of destruction.”
He added: “We won’t allow such a turn of events.”
― nashwan, Saturday, 24 June 2023 16:37 (eleven months ago) link
senior generals are all issuing their statements in support of the Putin regime.
Gotta say this means less than it appears to. The officers who matter most in a coup are those more in the middle tiers, lieutenants through colonels, and their perception of the war's progress, the morale of their troops, and the competence of Putin and the top military leadership. Prigozhin is betting on their disaffection and that if he gives them a point to rally around they'll take him up on it out of disgust with those generals who are all lining up with Putin.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 24 June 2023 16:49 (eleven months ago) link
This song seems apt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BZAuWhWNkA
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:01 (eleven months ago) link
Old enough to remember that just *last year* some of London’s finest legal minds were being paid vast sums by Prigozhin to claim in England's High Court that he had *nothing* to do with Wagner.https://t.co/suRpefFDyw— Miles Johnson (@MilesMJohnson) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:14 (eleven months ago) link
Lukashenko saying he's spoken to Prigozhin (on Putin's behalf) and Prigozhin has agreed to "de-escalate".
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:26 (eleven months ago) link
Yeah except that was from Lukashenko. Prigozhin just responded on his own saying "Yeah RIGHT."
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:27 (eleven months ago) link
I was aware of Wagner but I don't think I knew that their patch has a metal-as-fuck skull on it.
https://media.tenor.com/Rac0Uf_ziDwAAAAC/evil-are-we-the-baddies.gif
― pomplamoose and circumstance (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:28 (eleven months ago) link
_senior generals are all issuing their statements in support of the Putin regime._Gotta say this means less than it appears to. The officers who matter most in a coup are those more in the middle tiers, lieutenants through colonels, and their perception of the war's progress, the morale of their troops, and the competence of Putin and the top military leadership. Prigozhin is betting on their disaffection and that if he gives them a point to rally around they'll take him up on it out of disgust with those generals who are all lining up with Putin.
― Fizzles, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:38 (eleven months ago) link
AP confirms Wagner head Yevgeny Prigozhin is halting his mercenaries moments after Belarus president Alexander Lukashenko said he brokered a de-escalation deal. In an audio message, Prigozhin said that he is stopping his troops to avoid “Russian bloodshed”.
― nashwan, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:42 (eleven months ago) link
The Grand Old Duke of Prigozhin.
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:44 (eleven months ago) link
If true I guess first thoughts would be it's Lukashenko offering aid and men to Wagner and strengthen his own position. Except it also just shows the desperation of him in addition to P and P ?
― nashwan, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:45 (eleven months ago) link
In an audio statement, Yevgeny Prigozhin said he and his Wagner forces were “turning around our columns and returning to field camps according to plan.”
― Alito Bit of Soap (President Keyes), Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:53 (eleven months ago) link
normal stuff
― lag∞n, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:53 (eleven months ago) link
Prigozhin says it's over:"They were going to dismantle PMC Wagner. We came out on 23 June to the March of Justice. In a day, we walked to nearly 200km away from Moscow. In this time, we did not spill a single drop of blood of our fighters. Now, the moment has come when blood…— Dmitri (@wartranslated) June 24, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:57 (eleven months ago) link
This "march of justice" sounds like the usual, peaceful Saturday afternoon march on Westminster by a left activist grouping. Wtf?
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 24 June 2023 17:58 (eleven months ago) link
So uh ... what? This is the dumbest possible ending. Russia bombs their own bridges and then it's back to business as usual? What?
― official representative of Roku's Basketshit in at least one alternate u (lukas), Saturday, 24 June 2023 18:11 (eleven months ago) link
What a wild ride
― anvil, Saturday, 24 June 2023 18:12 (eleven months ago) link
Crabber B. Munson (Boring, Maryland) at 9:48 23 Jun 23Some kayfabe for Putin to get rid of an annoyance?
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 24 June 2023 18:16 (eleven months ago) link