HBO's Succession - Season 2 and Beyond

I’m glad I don’t have to watch another breakdown scene involving these nothing people

^^^^^^^^^^^

even tho their mom's house was a "dump" and had no food in the fridge can you imagine not wanting to hang out there for weeks and/or find a place nearby to hang vs. going back to the board meeting

i don't think the finale is above criticism (i wouldn't have minded a couple minutes less of clearly improvised sibling tomfoolery in the kitchen) but it was a logical, satisfying ending and didn't fall for any of the "we need to have a big mind-blowing finale" pitfalls. i like that there's a fair amount of ambiguity still as to why certain big decisions were made.

the greg-tom stuff in the finale was a lot of fun. tom seemed so much more upset about greg betraying him than about his relationship with shiv. the slap fight was good and the sticker on the forehead was the big LOL moment for me.

Shiv got blasted by all kinds of misogyny but the implication from right before the marriage was that she had tried her hand in democratic politics and some people thought "Hmm, daughter from the Roy family has some juice, maybe she can help our team" but that wasn't going anywhere quickly enough for her. So she marries Tom as part of a way to get her foot in the door at Waystar RoyCo from Tom's ATN connection.

And at the end, she's the wife of the head of ATN. I'm eliding a lot of the rollercoaster here, but marrying Tom always seemed like a cynical ploy on both their parts, even if he was genuinely fond of her.

xp I'd like to hang out at mom's house if I were them, but you'd have to put up with Peter and Jonathan!

This is probably a dumb moment not meant to be symbolic, but Roman's seen drinking a whisky fairly often in the series, just like dear old dad, but he's just sitting there numb at the end with... a martini

Could be symbolic... IIRC it's Gerri's favorite drink?

Based on my friend's extensive Roman/Gerri fan fiction, this would be correct.

This is probably a dumb moment not meant to be symbolic, but Roman's seen drinking a whisky fairly often in the series, just like dear old dad, but he's just sitting there numb at the end with... a martini

― mh, Tuesday, May 30, 2023 12:50 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Could be symbolic... IIRC it's Gerri's favorite drink?

― blatherskite, Tuesday, May 30, 2023 12:57 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

nice catch! it stuck out to me but i wasn't sure why.

a meal fit for a kiiiing

the fact that they’re both martini enjoyers their lore is so rich and expansive 2 me pic.twitter.com/adXc4Siesa

— anna (@romansgerri) May 25, 2023

i wouldn't have minded a couple minutes less of clearly improvised sibling tomfoolery in the kitchen

So she marries Tom as part of a way to get her foot in the door at Waystar RoyCo from Tom's ATN connection.

Shiv had zero reason to trust Kendall or ultimately vote his way, because she wanted to sell anyway before the Mattson/Tom stuff came out, and therefore it wasn't a huge turnaround. And what does she really gain from giving Kendall what he wants and what he'd been willing to cast her and everyone he loves aside to achieve? She would have more clout with Tom running it.

Roman just decided he didn't even want to deal with it anymore, the pressure was wrecking him and now the weight of it all is gone.

Also kendall throwing in with Mencken makes perfect sense when you consider his motives being nothing more than wanting to get the company and run it, and Mencken being the one who would purportedly make it happen for him. All things being equal, if both sides promised it, he'd probably go with Jimenez, but his morals were utterly compromised by his unsuccessful quest for the throne so Mencken it was.

People want consistency from characters when people whose lived are fucked up can be sympathetically, understandably inconsistent. And the inconsistency was never out of character, it tracks back to everything they'd gone through.

Probably should mention that the world they inhabit is so deep and rich in terms of the people surrounding them and the orbits in which they operate. You always have the sense of the larger world outside the margins, and how it doesn't end just offscreen.

Yeah I thought this was the reverse, Tom marries Shiv to get in at the company, and separately Shiv regains an interest in the family business when politics isn't paying dividends (plus the Nate thing).

xp

The dumb take upthread from that Twitter guy is the result of an inability to imagine character motivation beyond the surface level. It's one of the rare shows that really feels so well-planned as far as that all goes.

I feel if you watched the ending, where everyone pulls deep from their behaviour over the past four seasons and acts completely in character with their known motivations and weaknesses, and then decided this was “inconsistent”, you might not be very good at following television.

Hmm

Yes?

the americans still the greatest series finale of all time tho

Watching this with the husband at the moment -- first time for him, rewatch for me -- we will hit the series finale later this week. I'm so smug about how good my pokerface has been throughout.

My memory of Shiv's timeline is that she leaves politics and comes into the company specifically because Logan tells her he will anoint her as his successor when he stands down, not because she wasn't succeeding at her job.

(i wouldn't have minded a couple minutes less of clearly improvised sibling tomfoolery in the kitchen)

we are not the same

she wanted to sell anyway before the Mattson/Tom stuff came out

Yeah Shiv's double-doublecross really was where she was leaning all along, she wanted out of the company — partly because there had never been a place in it for her. One story in the show is Shiv's relationship to her family name — she obviously knows the value of it, presumably it had opened a lot of doors for her even on the Democratic side, she (I assume, can't remember if it was ever said) keeps it when she marries Tom, she very much sees herself as a Roy, as one of Logan's heirs, but other people all throughout the show constantly treat her as a lesser vessel. Which makes Roman's comment about the bloodline at the end a sort of weird triumph for her — but it comes through maternity, she's still relegated to woman's work. She's not going to be the boss either way, she never wanted Kendall to run it in the first place, so of course she'll sell.

xp incredible scene. that they gave it to ken for a moment while the rest of the world didn't exist was a sweet and sad gift to him

The dumb take upthread from that Twitter guy is the result of an inability to imagine character motivation beyond the surface level. It's one of the rare shows that really feels so well-planned as far as that all goes.

― omar little, Tuesday, May 30, 2023 12:16 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

And this is why AI can't write new Succession scripts that are actually good, because the characters are deeper than all of the words that they've said.

liked the scenes of them just being brothers and sister (licking the englishman’s cheese!) before they got back to the business of successioning

he gets so boring about it

my bad, I was thinking Tom was already at ATN when he and Shiv got married

the englishman's cheese scene made me look forward to ca. 2030 when my american kids will be old enough to join my wife and friends and bully me about my accent.

He lives in Monaco, he has to be careful about his days!!!

― TY FRANCE HATES TEXAS CONFIRMED (gyac), Monday, May 29, 2023 9:02 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it was a rich episode full of character and drama and trauma, but its lines like this that i'll miss the most.

Ok could someone please explain that line to me please, I feel like I'm missing something

it's a tax-dodging thing i assume

Ohhh ty.

Yeah Monaco is a tax haven and you have to be resident at least half the year to qualify. Cos he’s American that means every visit takes away from his total days he can spend out of Monaco. Tl;dr he’s a super rich ghoul.

so he can afford to buy his friend more cheese

What do y'all think peter's friend's pitch was?

Living Minus Minus

Really missed an opportunity for the show to end with Kendall going to a Phil Collins concert. "Phil sent me this ticket himself, it's front row center..."

Show succeeded in that I never want to see or discuss it ever again

yeah there was balance and weirdness and self-interest in the Ken/Roman hug but it was loving: Roman asked for an excuse why it couldn't be him, a specific excuse, like hm say if only my face looked worse, maybe if I hadn't healed so well, and Kendall gave it to him

I love how their mother is so awful that she would set up that whole trip just so her husband's rubbish friend could pitch her kids, and when Roman shows up in bits, she sees this as her way to get the other two to agree to come. She is the absolute worst.

yess

so shes like i need a moment to gather my thoughts, and kendall follows her and totally validates what her gut was telling her

yes

I choose to believe her name was Jess also.

no.

xp haven’t you got a thread to attempt to larp Nighthawks on

xp haven’t you got a thread to attempt to larp Nighthawks on

I didn’t think there was any mystery about the pitch, they literally give you little lines from it drifting in and out.

Farewell this dumb ass sbow

maybe now that it’s over you can stop posting itt idk just a thought

dumb ass sbow

Tom Dumbsbuns

When Shiv gets to Barbados Roman is wearing a friendship bracelet -- where did he get it?

he stopped by a walmart

Kendall Roy: $750 Jacques Marie Mage sunnies

Shiv Roy: $3000 Alexander McQueen power suit

Roman Roy: pic.twitter.com/I1vXUc9LB3

— Meech (@MediumSizeMeech) May 29, 2023

lol that fashion post cracked me up
walmart boys section heeee

I like the idea that Roman has had that t-shirt at the house for 25 years.

yeah

or Mum has a cheap-ass change of clothes stashed for each of them lol

like there’s a floral kmart drop waist jersey knit dress just hanging idly in a closet

Also clothing-related, Roman was so concerned about his stitches keeping him from looking like CEO material, when wearing a dark suit, dress shirt, and tie to a board meeting also did that.