HBO's Succession - Season 2 and Beyond

Predicting this show is kind of like predicting where Veep ends up -- who even remembers? When it's all done, we'll rewatch Kendall's birthday and the wedding episodes rather than see it all as clues leading to the finish.

At this point, Tom feels very much like the kind of high-level executive who says a few words at a meeting once in a while, and leaves the rest of us office workers resenting that he's paid more than us combined without doing much.

Veep ended with Richard, the socially-awkward character who was a total policy wonk, escalating from a whimsical moment where he was named mayor of a small town (the previous mayor was a hog iirc) to governor of Iowa and then US president

I remember this for reasons (I wish he was actually the governor of Iowa)

yeah the final flash forward of veep was an excellent punchline for the show

Given that the show is 'Succession' the ending feels a little more important than the political purgatory in Veep, but I guess we'll see (I liked Veep's ending too).

Wasn't that exactly how Rhea described her back in season 2?

― nate woolls, Tuesday, May 9, 2023 11:14 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes i was directly quoting! rhea was right

but i mean every kid is kind of a reflection of some aspect of logan, just heavily degraded bc of years of abuse and subversion on his part. shiv is his tendency to play both sides to his advantage while remaining (at least on the surface) aloof. she is just goddamn terrible at it and everyone hates her

(this is incidentally why i love shiv) (also it's not a race but every time roman implied that she's way more fucked up than he is i was like "he's right")

(kendall is logan's ability to bluff his way through/into epic deals) (roman is his ability to be a completely unprofessional piece of shit to the people he works with to like pull the rug out from them and remind them who's big dick of fuck country)

when Shiv again said "you don't deserve me" to Tom I couldn't help want him to say "...you're right, I don't" and mic drop

(he does tho)

more importantly where was MONDALE

What all three of them lack is Logan's biggest weapon — confidence. He never doubted himself, even when he changed his mind. At any given point, he was always sure he was right and everyone else was a bunch of idiots. The kids all sort imitate different versions of the way he acted or reacted, but none of them actually has any self-confidence because they grew up with a dad who always made them feel like they were ... a bunch of idiots.

idk if it’s just down to confidence, but logan didn’t grow up insulated in a bubble of privilege so i assume a lot of his confidence/braggadocio developed as a necessity of survival, a hardness that set in early and protected him both from failure and intimacy; his attempts to cultivate the same instinct in his children, in an environment where there are no stakes bc they will survive no matter what, idk it just destroyed them and now they can’t do anything. (well i kinda think ken has finally figured something out in this last season maybe but it will ultimately just ruin his stupid life even more even if he thinks it’s winning)

it's true about the confidence, the siblings change their minds after like 2 seconds of advice from one of the others

Yeah, they never seem sure of anything and they're as likely (or more likely) to talk themselves into bad ideas as good ones.

The most confident one is obv Connor; misguided as he is, he believes in himself (and also has someone who encourages him to believe in himself.)

Not nearly as crippled by the need for approval

maybe so but it took connor about 2 seconds to swap his 3, 4, 5% in alaska for a compound in oman, and then another two seconds for willa to talk him out of it

he learned a long time ago he wasn't going to get Logan's approval, although he keeps attempting to chart his way to notoriety and accomplishment and definitely had his moments of "hey dad, isn't this cool?"

big conn-head here, i will forever be haunted by the first thing connor said after he learned his dad died: "he never even liked me"

tfw you're the result of the marriage your dad pretends didn't happen

he's as loopy as the rest but in a more benign way now that logan is gone. what does he say? "it's comforting how much he's not there"?

connor has a different perspective cause he doesnt have a board seat

nobody expects anything from him! it's beautiful

He seems like the only one of the siblings who would be fine taking his billion and just living life.

idk he is running for president

I do want to know how Tom and Shiv got together. Didn't Shiv make reference to 'TK' and 'being at her lowest point'? Did Tom give her some old bread?

https://preview.redd.it/from-the-bitey-scene-do-we-know-who-tk-is-v0-wtkxikd2mexa1.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=72cd72505734b9e163faad02958f83f28575db70

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct-ZnVdWIAAxhQw?format=jpg&name=900x900

lol

Not nearly as crippled by the need for approval

It's not just a need for approval. Logan was a psycho who lost the fucking plot if people did or said the wrong thing around him. How could you have any confidence in yourself around someone like that.

think people underestimating shiv here, she might be messing up in this instance (mattson obv not her and tom's relationship coz whoo boy on that one)

but she did seem to build a successful career in politics outside of family biz - not sure if ken or roman could or did manage the same

think getting back sucked into family dynamics (and still searching for logan's approval) is where she gets fucked up but def the umm more stable of them with some level of self awareness

I always assumed that her career in politics was based solely on her name and contacts list, but that might not be true.

Definitely not, she was working for a progressive candidate, her name wouldn’t have been an advantage there.

oh contact list hugely important of course, she's not coming in as young upstart but iirc wasn't she a chief of staff or campaign manager back in s1 for a pretty major campaign?

contact list aside - the kinds of meltdowns kendall and roman regularly have wouldn't work outside the insulation of the company - still cant remember if ken or rom have had any successes outside or logan orbit (feel like kendall's solo failures mentioned in s1)

think seeing them all as per show's name in logan's orbit skews things - gerri seems competent obv, the olds generlly assume you must have some competence to get to that level (even if just in corporate politic), tom reached senior exec level before hooking up with shiv so again some level there

stewy? maybe just havent seen enough to see his failures but obv dont feel like would ever hit kendall roy levels of crack up over a deal

business-wise stewy is the opposite of the roy kids, he's a "serious person". an operator who'd cut your nuts off and hand them to you

oh absolutely, stewy def more capable of surviving in that world and seems way more together
just tryin not to assign brilliance to investors/hedge fund managers etc - but taking them on their own value - maybewhy

enjoyed matsson's line in last ep re meeting the elite folx at tailgate party 'thought this would be harder but its just money and gossip'

matsson's toxic relationship with his head of PR was v disturbing. i hope she's turning it to her advantage somehow but she may not be cut from the same cloth as the rest of these vipers

I think it's possible that Matsson is playing the Roys with the "second India" numbers stuff and with the relationship with his head of comms, though to what end is difficult to say, maybe just for the fun of seeing them squirm

looked pretty real to me

Shiv's reference to her "lowest ebb" I think we saw in the first season, right? Tom proposed to her at the hospital while Logan still hadn't woken up after his stroke. Which was pretty opportunistic of Tom, for sure.

we’re an episode out from it but i’d be remiss to point out that living+ is clearly a wework reference, real estate play masquerading as tech with a lot of woo woo thrown on top

really enjoyed tom’s interaction with the bald guy at his party… “asshole!”

lowest ebba

I think it's possible that Matsson is playing the Roys with the "second India" numbers stuff and with the relationship with his head of comms, though to what end is difficult to say, maybe just for the fun of seeing them squirm

A friend was espousing this theory last night, with the idea that it would embarrass them in front of the board or make them look bad in the end. Idk, seems like it could easily backfire and doesn't feel very Succession-y?

i hope she's turning it to her advantage somehow

she's been keeping all the blood

its like they say if youve got the blood youve got the power

re upthread is shiv smart i dont think is exactly the issue her big problem is that she never worked at the company and so doesnt really understand it, also since shes been in the mix she hasnt tried to understand it, "shes not as smart as she thinks" idk if smart is really the most precise word here shes overconfident and hasnt put in the leg work, shes getting in the mix scuffling for power and so forth but doesnt understand the lay of the land

exactly

running a media company and working for a candidate/poltician are 2 diff things

shes married to a guy who has all the info she needs but never bothered to ask

mattson probably isn’t running a long game with this india thing, think the point is that kendall is using fraud to game this gojo thing but… so is mattson, it’s just fraud all the way down

yup

just like so many fake it til you make it companies we see these days