Doctor Who 2008: Sontarans cometh, RTD Ood 'ave 'im etc.

Having to write River Song in at some point in the future is potentially awkward though, unless they've already signed the actress up for the 2010 series. I almost wanted this to be conveniently wrapped up in one episode.

I got the feeling it was wrapped up, and we don't have to meet her again - I got enough from what we saw there to get a sense of his future/her past together without them actually having to ever get round to explicitly showing any of it.

Though if they can sign up Alex Kingston, I'm all for it.

She did recognise Tennant as the Doctor though, so either she'll need to show up again before he regenerates, or there'll need to be a period between now and his next regeneration where he goes off and has his marriage, all off-screen. Which would leave us with a weird narrative gap...

there's tonnes of shit that goes on that we don't see, I don't see why we have to see this. I agree it would be weird as conventional story-telling goes, but this isn't conventional story-telling.

The bit where he says there's only one moment when he would ever tell anyone his name made it sound like she knows him when he dies. Or he screams it out during sex. Maybe if she's bringing him back from different times she's bringing him back from different regenerations ("I've never seen you this young" = I've never seen this incarnation.) It would explain why he's not around anymore in her future and why she misses him. And the screwdriver.

there's tonnes of shit that goes on that we don't see, I don't see why we have to see this

Because it's a really big and significant thing in his life? I'm pretty sure they've thought this through though and she'll be back sooner rather than later.

Well, I'm not really enough of an expert to say this with any authority, but I think that while there have always been implied untelevised adventures going on, they've always usually been fairly throwaway things, haven't they? And Doc getting married etc wouldn't be throwaway, it'd need to be a major event. Plus it'd need to happen during a companionless period, so we'd have to leave him on his own at some point, then pick the story up later, with him grieving but looking for a new tardis buddy. I just think Kingston coming back is more likely. (XPs)

But Billie saw Ecclescake die and never got to know his real name. Also River said something about not wanting him to regenerate so she knows it happens, so maybe she saw that happen somewhere after she met him, before she went to the library? Which would mean her having to be around for Tennant's regeneration into the next incarnation, so yeah, I guess we have to see her in that case. I'm quite happy with Great Big Events not happening on screen (will be glad if we never see the Time War, tbh) though, because it means geeky theorising and people not going "WTF is that it?" when we finally get round to seeing them.

I meant when he dies forever, no regenerating afterwards.

If River knows him that well perhaps he's told him when his regenerations happen? She had his diary aswell of course.

Well, if she's seen him die, then she's alone when she gets to the library and has good reason to kill herself, but wasn't there something that implied they were still together when she went there? Aarggh, need to watch again now.

this is all disproving my "I don't need to see this storyline involving Dr's wife" obviously, since I'm convincing myself it goes on from Tennant-version to death.

Dudes she hasn't seen him die, she learns his real name when they get married, it's really obvious!

I didn't think she'd seen him die, there was something that implied that they were still together when she went to the library (though not her reaction when they first encountered each other there, don't think, but that might have been due to the fact that she was by that stage used to him looking like whoever-plays-the-next-doctor)

He took her out for dinner or something and then got all tear-y, she realised why once she'd decided to wire herself up to the computer. It'd be possible for the writers to claim later on that she knows him well enough that she can recognise him in a regeneration she hasn't previously met, but the circumstances of him appearing in the deserted library after she'd messaged him should also have been enough to tip her off.

Or he screams it out during sex.

i hate you

this episode kind of showed what happens when you squeeze some brilliant ideas into not quite enough time.

yeah this was luvly emma b's take - "too much stuff"

Or he screams it out during sex.

Is screaming your own name out during sex common then? I mean, your partner's name or possibly Kylie but your own?

Matt DC OTM - the only time you have to use say your real name would be during a marriage ceremony.

You know about Time Lord weddings, do you? Do we even know Time Lords have marriage (ie in the classic series, or even the multi spin-offs)?

Tennant mentioned his wedding in one recentish episode, I'm pretty sure. Presumably from some pre-Unearthly Child days.

in Blink even, i think? "i'm rubbish at weddings, especially my own" or something like that.

SPOILER: The Doctor starts a warehouse in Willesden and River is his minder

Did nobody else want to kill them all every time they said "spoilers" (nudge nudge wink wink aren't we so clever)?

raises hand

Yeah that was a bit de trop.

The Stolen Earth and daleks confirmed by the official press release for ep12.

Of course, those of us who saw A Certain Picture during the week might suggest it doesn't stop there.

Rusty wants to do his Big Last Important Thing

oh god

This story was so good and that will be so bad.

Now I know he's going, I kind of want Rusty to go overboard and just make it as overblown as possible.

I'm sure I've heard of planets being dragged across the galaxy and hidden in Doctor Who before, can't remember where though.

The Pirate Planet

And The Mysterious Planet (the first chunk of Trial Of A Timelord). I haven't watched the rest yet, so I still don't know why earth was 2 light years away from where it should've been. And I've got a feeling it might not even get explained.

and of course in the first two episodes of this series

uh waht

How did I miss the planet abduction bits of "Partners in Crime" and "The Fires of Pompeii"?

It's been the running theme through the entire series.

The Adipose lost their planet, the Pyrovilles lost heirs, the Sontarans wanted to transform Earth, the people who had travelled in the Doctor's Daughter lost theirs, the Vespiform lost the planet it came from, the Library was lost to the shadow things... it's Rusty's Big Thing this year. Also, missing bees have been in all (?) the episodes this series.

And of course the shadow things had their forests destroyed to make the books.

xp OH WOW OF COURSE

ok I was being superliteralist and thinking there was some subplot abt planets getting dragged across the universe in "The Fires of Pompeii" that I'd forgotten

That is a cool explanation – clever!

Can we have a Dalek moratorium for a while though?

Yes Russell/Steven, please just don't use them for about 500 yrs.

I distinctly remember reading it being a condition of use by the Terry Nation Estate/T1m H4nc0ck that the Daleks were in every full series made to get to use the license.

So they won't be in the specials (possibly) but will be in Moffat's first full series. Probably.

Yeah, I'm just being ridiculously hopeful.

Just listened to the Paul McGann "Neverland" audio drama, which has Romana (II) in it. I can't believe the two guys Lalla Ward married were tom baker and RICHARD DAWKINS, of all people.

http://www.brighton.ac.uk/news/2004/images/dawkinsward.jpg

Guardian preview for tonight:

"Outside nothing can survive, so why is there banging on the ship's hull?"

Anyone get the feeling the Daleks are arriving early, in Master Utopia stylee?

No. This is the "budget-lite" episode.

Maybe just an eye-stalk?

No. This is like a one scene play.

featuring Mark Addy´s wife from The Full Monty - just when i couldn´t think of any more people who should be in this. altho i think that guy who played Chris Finch in The Office should get a look in soon.

I thought last week's didn't hang together as well as some people did, and I do worry that Moffat is overmining some seams, BUT I can't get Donna's dream world out of my head. The immediate movement from one scene to another and, especially, Miss Evangelista pointing out that all the children were the same. That such a thing could be suddenly the case was so on point. I can't think of dream logic being so well portrayed on film, not even in David Lynch.

"Outside nothing can survive, so why is there banging on the ship's hull?"

Probably Captain Jack trying to get in. I fully expect him to turn up at some point very soon.

Not for two weeks yet.

I think it will be an elaborate set-up for the "Knock knock. Who's there. Doctor." joke.