The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

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xxp WTF, that's not his point at all. His point was that he was tempted to perform a violent act and that he's glad that there's gun control or else it would have been infinitely easier to enact that fantasy. Are none of you ever scared about what you're capable of? Wasn't there some Noise Board thread recently where everyone talked about how they frequently imagined themselves jumping in front of trains and stuff?

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

OK, I am genuinely surprised that people think that first post is really creepy.

I think that his rhetoric after that post was reactionary and overwrought, but are people really weirded out by that revenge fantasy?

Or maybe people have a history with him that I am unaware of?

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

not having to rewrite the constitution is the advantage

Should the constitution be set in stone? Haven't values, threats, opportunities, etc. changed in the last two and a bit centuries? Shouldn't it be at least reviewed every fifty years or so to decide whether it's still worth hanging a flag on?

Sorry for being a crappy Brit about all this but "because my constitution says I can" is fuck all justification for anything in my eyes.

The right to bear arms for defence (or at least the right of Protestants to do so) was a tenet of the English Bill of Rights a hundred years earlier but I for one am glad that English Law isn't like tablets from Mount Sinai.

― onimo, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

Mr. Que, that was most definitely not his point.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

oh I sounded like a smarmy cunt there, sorry :)

― onimo, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

(I only skimmed the parts in the thread where he talked about rape victims, so whatever, you may be right. But by that point, John Justen had already gone all "U R A MEGA-CREEP" on him, so I can understand his need to defend himself.)

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

John, it's not his point that people have had a problem with. it was his lingering articulation of the revenge fantasy--(seriously, make them call me "sir"? more than I ever needed to read, frankly)--and the way the nature of that revenge fantasy seems related to his fixation on rape and his defensiveness about race.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

okay, we're just reading the post in a different way, interpreting it differently? there's no reason to bring the Noise Board into it, for the record i was not part of the subway train thread imagination thingamabob. alls i know is if i was having those kinds of fantasies i would seek some help very quickly.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

if that was the only post he made about it then fine, or if he had chosen to explain it simply, then fine, but the atrocity exhibition that by his own admission had nothing to do with his actual situation at all that he created in subsequent posts is hella fucking creepy and disturbing for some of us. i can't speak for mr. que but i think it's obvious by john's posts that the post-initial-statement rhetoric being spouted was creeping him out! i mean yes he got called out for the overly lurid post but the way he defended himself is like basically stomach-turning.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

lots of xposts obviously

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

OK, I am genuinely surprised that people think that first post is really creepy.

"These dudes were making fun of my friend and man I wanted to beat the shit out of them" - not creepy.

"These dudes were making fun of my friends and I was really hoping to go all Death Wish IV on their asses and have them beg me not to kill them" - creepy as fuck.

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

yeah milo kind of otm but otoh if that was IT and it was just some weird "I WROTE A HIT PLAY" louis jagger-style overflourishy creative writing exercise then it really wouldn't have garnered such a response.

i'm genuinely surprised that some of you are being so disingenuous about not seeing how any of those posts are creepy at all!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

"These dudes were making fun of my friends and I was really hoping to go all Death Wish IV on their asses and have them beg me not to kill them" - creepy as fuck.

Which is why those movies sold so poorly, because no one can relate to them...oh, wait.

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

newsflash: angry white males (aka The Death Wish Audience) be creepy, too. see also: Roger Adultery

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:42 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.degreesofme.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/conan.jpg

"What is good in life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before -- oh, shit, wait, dude, I shouldn't say that, no one will like that line at all."

xpost yes, because only white males want to kill people, and there are no other movies, or forms of entertainment, depicting revenge fantasies that have appeal beyond that narrow subset. "Hothead Paisan", anyone?

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

lurker get a fucking clue already

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

just ONE

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

I am not being disingenuous, Ally!

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

and the way the nature of that revenge fantasy seems related to his fixation on rape and his defensiveness about race.

You're losing me here, Horseshoe. I re-read Lurker's posts, and I'm under the impression that he talked about rape victims only as an example of someone that we might consider justified for having revenge fantasies. The only issue I have with that is that, unless he's been raped himself, it's a bit presumptuous to speak on their behalf. But really, the reason he went there was because some people seemed to think that he was a weirdo for having a revenge fantasy in the first place. All he was saying was, "Revenge fantasies need not be creepy. Consider such-and-such a situation." Your post makes it sound like he's fixated on rape fantasies, which is a wild leap to make.

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:47 (nineteen years ago)

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/7344.htm

"A group of elderly Holocaust survivors came forward with accounts of a death squad they formed after World War II to take revenge on their Nazi persecutors, recounting a brazen operation in which they poisoned hundreds of SS officers."

VERY CREEPY

xpost exactly, thank you, Jaymc!

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

hey lurker can you call me sir a few times

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

I don't understand what the existence of revenge porn movies and posting revenge porn to a gun control thread really have to do with each other.

xpost John, I really don't think it's a wild leap. the race and rape stuff came out of nowhere and John Justen and Ally have already articulated what's so gross about using them as hypotheticals.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

Star Wars has an appeal for me, to watch and enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I want to hang out in a pool of rotting garbage getting crushed to death while i scream at a gay robot to turn the garbage compactor off.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

ok, really, can we just ban anyone who draws a line between teen hooligans and Nazi camp guards? Pretty plz?

― milo z, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

"A group of elderly Holocaust survivors came forward with accounts of a death squad they formed after World War II to take revenge on their Nazi persecutors, recounting a brazen operation in which they poisoned hundreds of SS officers."

VERY CREEPY

Not that creepy at all. Waving a gun in someone's face because they called your friend an awful name? Pretty fucking creepy.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

again, I don't necessarily think it's creepy to have had revenge fantasies (although I'm annoyed at the insinuation that I have to relate), it was the posting about it in lingering detail that seemed off to me.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

well this sure is tiresome...

the Brit upthread obviously doesn't understand some fundamental differences between British and American jurisprudence - namely that Americans have a document, the Constitution, that IS set-in-stone as the rule of law (barring amendments). I understand this is not the case in the UK, but really get one fucking clue. All federal laws are derived first from the Constitution, rather than the willy-nilly accumulation of precedent that is the British legal system.

many x-posts

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

mr que otm re star wars

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

R2 was gay?

― onimo, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

the best thing about the garbage compactor is how they're in all this "stinky garbage" but 100% of the garbage appears looks exactly like scrapmetal and woodchips

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

exactly!

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

"race and rape stuff came out of nowhere" = me saying is there anyone in the world who you'd say, yes, it's OK for them to want to do this?

I mean, there's footage kicking around of seven or eight white kids kicking the shit out of a mentally retarded black kid, who asks over and over again, "What'd I do? What'd I do?" It's one of the most harrowing and disturbing things I've ever seen. How can you not want to do something horrible to those kids, even if you just feel that impulse for a minute or two?

Or those cops Tasering that guy in the library -- does no one but me, watching that footage, have any urge to beat the shit out of them, or even more so, to...to humble them? To make the torture stop, but also to teach the cops how it feels when you're in that position?

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

what i don't get is where the death star comes up with all that liquid waste.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

dood you watch too many torture videos wtf

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

hey lurker can you call me sir a few times

On the one hand, I have total respect for your position Tombot (even though I disagree with it), but OTOH, this is a really fucking creepy thing to say. Are you honestly threatening me with violence, dude?

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

dirty mop water

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

are you guys talking about the death star?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

i love the death star!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

I'm baffled that lurker cannot posit any difference between wanting to STOP abuse and wanting to HARM the abuser.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

dude stop turning this thread into this weird psychological bullying I'm going to describe a bunch of violent encounters in vivid detail until you all admit your secret desire for revenge. wtf? I know it's not the most ontopic thread but it's a gun control debate thread.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

but the death star is full of robots, aren't robots clean? is Grand Moff Tarkin that messy?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

either this whole thing just achieved a new level of irony I was not prepared to comprehend or lurker is genuinely trying to be funny

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'm baffled that lurker cannot posit any difference between wanting to STOP abuse and wanting to HARM the abuser.

Of course there's a difference! The former's a lot healthier than the latter, but normal people feel both.

Jesus, enough of this. Please, let's just stop, OK?

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

The former's a lot healthier than the latter, but normal people feel both.

define "normal" please. actually, wait, don't.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

increase the peace

― river wolf, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I really don't think it "came out of nowhere."

― jaymc, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

"race and rape stuff came out of nowhere" = me saying is there anyone in the world who you'd say, yes, it's OK for them to want to do this?

how about we make a deal. i will describe, in specific and vivid creative writing major detail (because that is apparently what is a-ok with nabisco and jaymc, the creepy police), what i would theoretically like to do to you for sitting here destroying the entire thread with lurid posts about rape and torture, if i was someone who actually identified with your position. then, you have won, and you will leave the thread. will this make you happy?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

hi jaymc and [nabisco], i actually never want to speak to either of you again.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

the robots have little tires and the tire rubber picks up dust from the air and redeposits it (along with some rubber) on the floors

so other robots have to come by behind them and mop it up once in a while

then you got to recycle the dirty mop water, but first it drains through the floor grate and ends up in the trash room

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

BYE NEVER MIND THIS THREAD

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 19 April 2007 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

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