TÁR, the cancel culture conversation piece of the year starring Cate Blanchett and Nina Hoss and directed by Todd Field

onstage tackle is kinda just another thing that happens (seemed tres kubrick to me in the way it always does when people get into clumsy+desperate fights at the end of 3hr movies filmed in glacial longshot, but am i only thinking of barry lyndon?) fishbowl scene in epilogue otoh structurally necessary bc it's when she sees herself + the mechanism she is part of, stripped of obfuscatory questions about aesthetics, and even of the illusion of her own independence, since her existential heroism turns out to slot so neatly into the consumer-role of the most direct and open exploitation.

monster hunter scene a perfect vision of personal hell (the timing of the assistant popping up w headphones tho: you cannot start without me!) and her self-possessed dignity as she burns in it is also perfect.

krista's lil ghost-cameos v effective. slatepitch about it-was-a-dream theory valuably excavates those five or six frames of krista lurking in the background of tar's apartment which i 100% missed, but gets distracted Figuring Out Plot and doesn't bother praising the lovely irony of this section wherein tar's convo w julian glover about schopenhauer ("it was unclear that this private and personal failing had anything to do w his work") is followed immediately by a montage of tar's own work being literally, physically, audibly haunted by her own private and personal failings-- including the bit where not only does the (real or imagined) siren she keeps hearing inspire her own (blocked) composition but also its extreme distance inspires her (unblocked) interpretive decision to move the trumpeter back into the booth for her mahler recording-- an idea mark strong of course keeps when he records it himself.

(+ since as slate piece also points out this sequence of her at work is implied to be happening at more or less the time of the suicide, it's possible tho unnecessary to believe the inspirational siren is not only real but actually krista's)

(or maybe not cuz i forget who's in which city.)

might need to revive the ILX classic term "challenging opinion" for the "ACTUALLY TAR is a comedy" crew

banned for telling the truth

in our time

Dude it genuinely is funny. The tackle is funnier than it is shocking.

oh i also rly love the last line-- def wouldn't prefer any other line in the movie in its place. brothers and sisters of the 5th fleet.

But then I find diarrhea funny so take that for what it’s worth.

when yr seated watching tar and the siren's not so far

just because a movie is funny doesn't mean it's a comedy

i don't really know what my argument is here except that i don't really feel like this movie has one clear-cut genre so calling it a comedy feels reductive

think treesh is otm that it is a classical tragedy (tho we may differ on her Flaw). it's v funny tho yes.

No interest in seeing this movie but always lots of interest in reading Zadie Smith essays, so thanks for that one, it was good

stuff in the smith essay about identity and individualism and ~freedom~ v good+insightful and hits central questions of the movie, with all of its ironies about being (earnestly) ordered by an egotist to "sublimate yourself", or being (literally) elected to something as socially constructed as celebrity and still (correctly) believing "it's not a democracy", but unsure "x vs millennials" is actually the main historical application of these questions, or that they will disappear when everyone has forgotten who thurston moore is

A lot of the recent trajectory of reactionary centrism, which tends to skew towards Gen X and younger boomers, can be seen in this chart. pic.twitter.com/eV1XF7KUYr

— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) December 30, 2022

Oh and obviously you see from miles away what's going to happen, no suspense and all inevitability there, CB is going blindly into it.

I mean, if you saw her history and her name coming -- which is as much of a dramatic revelation as the present-moment plot -- then kudos.

the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward monster hunter

YOU DIED

a world of npcs

https://i.imgur.com/qMMPcb9.gif

think treesh is otm that it is a classical tragedy (tho we may differ on her Flaw). it's v funny tho yes.

Saw this today, without much prior knowledge. I think I thought Julian Glover was dead, because I kept watching his scenes and going, gosh this man is like a very old Julian Glover. Also he was giving a very 'natural' performance, as if he was another non-actor from the classical world. A long way from Quatermass and the Pit, anyway. Or is it??!@@

Enjoyed how much there was abt the business mechanics of the classical world - meetings, assistants, patronage, publicity, charity boards etc. Also v good on the hierarchies of eminence and status and charisma that are coded into terms like 'soloist', 'first violin' etc.

I don't recall Varese ever being debated in an American movie before.

Absolutely loved it, incredible film

However, I do sort of wish the last 20 minutes...didn't exist

Todd Field profile in The New Yorker. On In the Bedroom:

The film débuted at Sundance, in 2001, and was acquired by Miramax. Field was devastated, because Miramax meant Harvey Weinstein, who was notorious for recutting movies into shreds. “I was weeping in the bathroom,” Field said. “I called up Tom Cruise and said, ‘Something terrible has happened.’ He basically said, ‘This is how you’re going to play it. It’s going to take you six months, and you’ll beat him, but you have to do exactly what I’m going to tell you to do, step by step.’ ” The plan: let Weinstein cut it to ribbons, wait for it to test poorly, then pull out the raves from Sundance and suggest that he release it the exact way it was when he’d bought it. Field followed Cruise’s advice, and it worked. “In the Bedroom” grossed more than twenty-five times its budget and was nominated for five Oscars, including Best Picture.

I love shit like that.

Watched this a second time and enjoyed the craft better. Yes it is a Tragedy, yes and it is very funny. I think the last 20 minutes are essential—her visceral reaction to the “fishbowl” hopefully gave her some insight into how she treated people, and the care she takes to study the video game music score and help the youth orchestra realize the composer’s intentions shows she genuinely wants to serve music and do her job well.

FWIW, Tom Cruise's cousin had a major role in that movie, so there was a rooting interest on his part

Reading that profile I couldn't remember if Field was Cruise's cousin and had wondered why Field hadn't disclosed it.

But, yeah, the slimy husband in ITB is Cruise's coz iirc.

Thomas Cruise Mapother IV

Tom Cruise picks up his mail in his depressingly dark childhood Long Island home

Saw this tonight and liked it a lot, most of what I had to say has already been covered, in depth, but also

* have to confess to being completely lost in her interview at the start
* sound design was simply incredible at times, never heard such subtle and dynamic stereo mixing
* the Vietnam fishbowl scene reminded me of Gary Glitter, sure this was an unintentional parallel.

what's the specific GG connection? Bangkok is the sex tourism destination ne plus ultra.

Also, the movie definitely assumes a lot of knowledge about the contemporary classical music scene (although some classical music snobs might argue that there are orchestras better or more prestigious than the Berlin Philharmonic). The female conductors she mentions in that opening interview I am sure are namechecked for the purposes of the film, top make clear that Tar's character is NOT meant to be a coded reference to them (especially Marin Alsop, who IS a real life lesbian protege of Leonard Bernstein).

Another example, when you see the poison pen emails she sent to sink Krista's career they are all the first names of the world's most prominent conductors.

oh christ

a) I know the country wasn't specifically named in the film and that Southeast Asia kind of looks the same to everyone who doesn't live here, but she's in is the Philippines, not Vietnam or Thailand. The characters were speaking Tagalog, plus there was the Marlon Brando reference re: the crocodiles (Apocalypse Now was shot in the Philippines), plus there was a scene with a photo of Jose Rizal on the wall (although why in the world a Filipino family would have a framed photo of him up is a mystery)

b) this was the second movie in a row I saw after Triangle of Sadness where the rich white person character(s) has to defer to Filipinos to show just how far they've fallen, and you know what, fuck that shit. stop using poor brown people to make a point in your white privilege morality plays.

giving ToS a pass for now because Filipina actress Dolly de Leon was tremendous in that role, but count me in among the folks that hated Tar's final 20 mins. There was no reason at all to set it in the Philippines or anywhere in Southeast Asia, as if working here is the punishment that canceled white people deserve. why not an orchestra playing San Diego Comic Con? prob would've had the same impact and been funnier

Sorry Roz, should have known it was Philippines rather than Vietnam as I have spent time in both, was thrown by the crocodiles thing, but of course Apocalypse Now wasn't filmed in Vietnam.

You make a good point with your b) - tbh I found the last part the weakest, did not work out it was a cosplay audience straight away as the costumes were much too good.

Re: Gary Glitter, he was convicted in the UK due to images on his computer first, then after he'd left prison he travelled to Vietman, where he was caught actually abusing children and sent to jail there.

why not an orchestra playing San Diego Comic Con? prob would've had the same impact and been funnier

Or at the second inauguration party for a Florida GOP governor.

it's a good point, would expect her to perhaps lean into it in the style of Louis CK, as I don't think she has genuine remorse for what she has done.

It's been a few months now since I watched it, but I seem to remember a seemingly throwaway line near the beginning about how Tár was on the forefront of pushing Asian composers into the canon? If so, would it potentially add at least a wrinkle to the last act?

I agree that Lydia being forced to conduct, say, the southern New Jersey youth symphony in the last reel would've been just as funny

b) this was the second movie in a row I saw after Triangle of Sadness where the rich white person character(s) has to defer to Filipinos to show just how far they've fallen, and you know what, fuck that shit. stop using poor brown people to make a point in your white privilege morality plays.

this is a good point. didn't think about it this way.

It's been a few months now since I watched it, but I seem to remember a seemingly throwaway line near the beginning about how Tár was on the forefront of pushing Asian composers into the canon? If so, would it potentially add at least a wrinkle to the last act?

substantive, fucking iPhone

Sorry, badly worded. That's sort of what I meant; if the whole movie is told from the main character's subjectivity, the ending is a counterpoint to her inflated sense of cultural largesse.

Why would the Philippines be seen as a comedown for her?

No badinage, no swanky bars and restaurants for her to lord over.

If you want to argue through the main character’s POV that it’s a comedown for her cos it’s not prestige, it’s not even in the west, then fine, make that point, but I can’t see a way past Roz’s point that the Philippines is a standin for lesser in such a particular way that the narrative is endorsing Tár’s implied POV, not critiquing it.

I need to see it again but I remember feeling like there was a weird slippage in the final section where it was clear she was in Thailand but then she was in the Philippines without any explanation.

Also: it's kinda driving me nuts that there are no crocodiles in Apocalypse Now? Right? Not in Redux or Final Cut either? Obviously this doesn't mean they weren't brought in for the movie it's just...weird. I even googled where Island of Dr Moreau was shot!

If you want to argue through the main character’s POV that it’s a comedown for her cos it’s not prestige, it’s not even in the west, then fine, make that point, but I can’t see a way past Roz’s point that the Philippines is a standin for lesser in such a particular way that the narrative is endorsing Tár’s implied POV, not critiquing it.

― can you still hit dinngers (gyac),

It's a strong point. I thought the movie critiqued her, not endorsed her, but I'll watch the last half-hour again.

Roz, did you still find the film worth a watch?

Tar's first breakthrough was through her work as an ethnomusicologist, so I think the film leads us to think she may be going back to her roots in a sense, that this may actually be a fresh start for her, only to reveal the final swerve.