The _Avatar_ sequel, presumably also directed by James Cameron

I mean it worked in Terminator

I mean that’s even the plot of Die Hard, John Wick, opening scene of The Wild Bunch, every marvel movie…I don’t mind it. I kinda wonder if this is gonna have the massive impact of the first. Probably to some extent. We’re getting how many more of these, three or four?

yes exactly, die hard, terminator, john wick... all franchises that got very dire & bad by 4th, 5th, 6th entries, due largely to same recycled plots getting v boring

Wild bunch 4 though!

lol tbh i could have sworn there was some kind of forgotten low-rent Wild Bunch sequel in the later 70s, had to google to confirm i was imagining it

some kind of forgotten low-rent Wild Bunch sequel in the later 70s

No sequel, just an 80s reboot/tribute:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/WEBP_402378-T2/images/I/81Xoa62PZXL.jpg

That movie rules, basically the best possible modern era remake of that movie.

yes exactly, die hard, terminator, john wick... all franchises that got very dire & bad by 4th, 5th, 6th entries, due largely to same recycled plots getting v boring

― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Saturday, December 17, 2022 11:40 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

the terminator sequels beyond 2 (not including dark fate which is highly enjoyable and guess who’s involved) aren’t bad bc of recycled plots … they’re bad bc they’re soulless and stupid and actively undermine the themes of t1 and 2

god i need to see extreme prejudice so bad

Nolte totally somehow chiseled in that one, totally devoid of his frequent shagginess and shabbiness.

anyway i’m into the late work of an artist being a collision of basically every idea they’ve ever had and if i’m reading the reviews of this right we’re in jim cameron’s late period

The cast of bad guys is just fantastic, major scenery-chewing in the best sense of the term.

god i need to see extreme prejudice so bad

It might not be the best Walter Hill movie but in many ways it's the most Walter Hill movie. There are so many moments in it where your jaw just drops.

weirdly this is the 2nd time someone has mentioned Extreme Prejudice to me this weekend, going to obey the will of the universe and watch it this week

this movie felt like a propaganda film to support the na’vi war effort

not necessarily a bad thing haha

loved this

just rewatched avatar 1, it’s still dope, the insane bioluminescence of literally everything, the constant stream of beautifully plotted action and aerial ballet in the last thirty minutes where you also feel the impact of every death

people who don’t like it are nerds

seeing way of water tomorrow afternoon :)

people who don’t like it are nerds

nah. they're just people who don't like all the same things you do.

it’s an enormous spectacle and it is 100 percent successful at being that. ppl caught up in the plot or lack thereof or the acting ffs are denying themselves immersion to appear smart. huge nerds

Seeing this Friday, psyched

ppl caught up in the plot or lack thereof or the acting

lol that's setting the bar low. Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

"Ooh, cartoon whales pretty!" *claps hands*

way of water was miles better than the first avatar. the things that were issues in the first one (lack of plot, stock characters, white savior narrative) are marginally improved upon, while the visuals and action go up several notches

did you read my post. do you think it’s easy to create effective, clean, dazzling spectacle. given the past 20 years of blockbusters i would say it isn’t

it’s a beautiful movie. the plot is spare bc there’s such a visual feast going on that nothing should get in its way! but i find it thematically resonant regardless bc yes the military and the capitalists are the problem and they should be marched off the world

the avatar/going native stuff being icky for some is fair and i acknowledge it! i get major trans vibes from abandoning your traumatized earthly body for one that feels more like home to you tho

this movie reminded me more of titanic than avatar 1, tbh

only a few hours from now and i can’t wait!!! maybe should’ve watched titanic last night instead of the first avatar

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Unmasked at last!

I totally get where Brad is coming from, but I think the counter argument is legit, too: if the acting/writing/plot is good, a movie might have less need to be so visually resplendent/spectacular.

I think the other argument is, why are we demanding that a visual spectacle have a mega complex story when we lap up other action movies that are largely visual? it isn't as if Commando had a Charade-esque story going on.

I don't really think either Avatar story was 'bad' either. both of them tread common ground, have some broad-stroked baddies, and almost all of Giovanni Ribisi's dialogue was terrible in the first, but two spends a lot of time culture/world-building in a way that is very effective.

i think it's part of cameron's point with these movies tho, that if you build a compelling enough sandbox and hit the right story beats, you don't need that stuff. it's pure cinema, removing any vestigial elements of the stage

it was funny, back in 2009, with all of my theatre buddies railing against the piece, and listing all of the problems they had with it,which basically amounted to "we want movies to be like theatre"

cameron executed the story very well in both films (he knows structure!) but i massively prefer the "family of refugees attempts to adapt to new home" story to the dances with wolves/last samurai rip of the first one

The problem is the novelty of the visuals does wear off. It's a three hour movie!

I didn't hate this fwiw, just more of a *shrug*. I like JC's brand of cheese and would prefer he'd not spend what looks like the remainder of his career doing these movies over and over.

I'm sure Brad will dig it though. Enjoy!

And I also don't require some complex story at all. Just conflicts and characters that are interesting. I struggled to care about anyone in the movie.

Sigourney's the only one who popped for me.

Different strokes and all that, but I think that's a reason why Villeneuve's sci-fi streak has been so strong: they're visually striking while also being mostly well-written and acted (imo). It doesn't have to be theatrical (in the theatre sense), but compelling characters and actors carry a lot of weight. So I have no doubt this movie is visually amazing - that's why it was made - but I don't really want to see it because I'm not invested in the characters. Iirc I *liked* the first Avatar, and recommended it to folks, but I've never wanted to see it again because I didn't get anything out of it *besides* the spectacle.

Neando's "Commando" example is interesting, because what is "Aliens" if not "Commando" with more compelling plot and characters? Makes a difference!

"novelty wears off" is otm for me. yeah imho even with avatar 1, even by 2009 i had already been shown so goddamn many "visually spectacular" CGI alien planets and elaborate landscapes and fantasy beasties that it just didnt make me ooh and aah like it was supposed to. its cool for a bit but after an hour or so "look at what else we animated" stops being enough to hang the whole experience on. if that makes me a joyless nerd who needs to have their brain stroked by retrograde "elements of theater" (rmde) so be it.

also the racial stuff is gross as hell, props to those who can at least admit it, nobody should be fooling themselves w that shit

Iirc I *liked* the first Avatar, and recommended it to folks, but I've never wanted to see it again because I didn't get anything out of it *besides* the spectacle.

yeah i felt the same way about the first avatar, but i kinda want to just get on this ride again lol

after an hour or so "look at what else we animated" stops being enough to hang the whole experience on

This is what drives me nuts when, for example, Twitter accounts dedicated to "amazing shots" will post a still frame from some fucking Marvel thing that is 100% computer-generated. It's not a "shot" of anything — it's a digital painting. Which is fine! But don't pretend you filmed something.

the racial stuff is gross as hell

Slate has a good piece on that topic today.

when you're making these movies you have to figure out what the "camera" is doing even if that camera is just the way the frame moves. so... you're wrong

i'm willing to spend two hours watching mr. cameron's magicquarium if in the third hour i can see one of film's great set piece choreographers indulge in some of the most visceral and elaborately-staged (and surprisingly violent!) action i've seen in years

i mean, fair cop that a still frame from a marvel movie is totally empty garbage xp

when you're making these movies you have to figure out what the "camera" is doing even if that camera is just the way the frame moves. so... you're wrong

Words mean things, Brad. If a new word for what Cameron (or some Marvel hack) is doing is required, great — come up with one. But *shooting a scene* is one thing, and *creating a digital cartoon* is another. They are two different ways of approaching the same art form (cinema). I'm not saying that one is better or worse than the other. But to deny that they're two fundamentally different things is just foot-stomping.

i certainly get off on my share of brainless visual spectacles, but as i get older i find i'm more & more interested in visual spectacles that involve the human body. the way ppl are talking about enjoying the new avatar isnt foreign to me, its 100% how i enjoy martial arts & car chase/stunt movies these days, but i guess my bias is that theres something in my brain that is way more activated by the spectacle of human bodies in motion on planet earth and less & less blown away by planets where the sky is green or w/e.

the way ppl are talking about enjoying the new avatar isnt foreign to me, its 100% how i enjoy martial arts & car chase/stunt movies these days, but i guess my bias is that theres something in my brain that is way more activated by the spectacle of human bodies in motion on planet earth and less & less blown away by planets where the sky is green or w/e.

Me too — just keeping it to car stuff, I would much rather watch a movie like Lost Bullet where all the stunts are done by real human beings in real cars than one of the Fast & Furious movies where cars are leaping from one skyscraper to another or floating in space.

i'm willing to spend two hours watching mr. cameron's magicquarium if in the third hour i can see one of film's great set piece choreographers indulge in some of the most visceral and elaborately-staged (and surprisingly violent!) action i've seen in years

Yeah that's the other thing the movie has going for it which doesn't get mentioned enough — dude is one of the great action directors, and I for one did not get tired of the closing 40 minutes of mayhem because the action kept moving and changing.

Also, I don't pretend to understand everything that goes on in making such a CGI-dependent movie, but it's not only a cartoon, there are actual actors (in motion-capture suits, granted) actually moving, there are actual sets and actual cameras moving through them.

i do think there's a fundamental difference between mo-cap and pure cgi, and, to me, that difference comes across very starkly when comparing the action in this film to *insert marvel film here*

Yeah, the action feels much more visceral here.

Definitely some rad action stuff in the final third, but thought the final throwdown with the big bad was a little anticlimactic.