WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown

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From a purely practical standpoint, who fucking cares if Michael Richards is a "racist" or an "asshole" or "dangerously socially inept" or "incredibly mean-spirited"? What precisely does defending him gain us in terms of positive results? Does it help our understanding of racial differences? Does it give startling new insight into issues that trouble these modern times? Does it do anything besides allow you to feel superior about not judging someone desperately crying out to be judged?

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

...

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

Does it do anything besides allow you to feel superior about not judging someone desperately crying out to be judged?

O-T-M

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

I think the weirdest thing about outbursts like this is how little it takes to set someone off; MR's been a standup on and off since the 70's, you'd think it would take more than a heckler to make him blow up and say something that, whether he believes it or not, clearly has career-ending consequences

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

What precisely does defending him gain us in terms of positive results?
It takes us away from the incredibly short-sighted thinking that "he said X therefore he is Y regardless of anything no shutup it's totally clear he is Y OMG"

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

You are a moron.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

From a purely practical standpoint, who fucking cares if Michael Richards is a "racist" or an "asshole" or "dangerously socially inept" or "incredibly mean-spirited"?

Dan, this is exactly my point. What he did was horrible, but people here seemed overly interested in now being able to call him a RACIST.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

yes, stet, we all read your cracker-reference up thread.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

I don't care what you call him, dude is scary.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

"overly interested"? dude, people have been saying a lot of things. You'd have a point if us calling him racist was in some way shutting down discussion, but its not.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

Yeh, I mean, I'm Britishes so clearly don't have yr cultural sensititvies on this one, but fuck me is it always so knee jerk whenever anyone says nigger?

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

As a comedian, aren't you supposed to make the heckler look like the asshole? A bold anti-heckling gambit by Mr. Rchards. Uh.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

it's not "shortsighted" to fucking characterize a situation while discussing it! that's what conversation is.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

i'd expect this sort of thing from saget...

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

racism is the new sex tape

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

unless you're the type who thinks words only have one meaning, and can only be used in one way, and wave your little fan whenever you're offended.

really, guys. put down those fans! just a bit of lynching humor - let's all be cool.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, seriously. stet, are you crazy?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

xpost jaymc I don't think that is actually the case at all. It kind of seems like you're trying to derail the thread into a "we all must argue that he is a racist because someone is saying he might not be," though.

xpost stet, what exactly are you not getting about the fact that A) that's an inappropriate word B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching? What on earth could the hecklers be saying that you honestly believe this is something that could be "mitigated"?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

I'm surprised [they] didn’t ask for reparations.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

It's not just the word itself though, it's the vitriol with which he says it. I am British too, and I think it's pretty obvious he's a racist, and a very stupid one at that.

Too many xposts to count

― chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

i think attempts to defend Richards are more likely to be based on 'but this is hilarious Kramer guy, please no he can't be a racist!' denial rather than anything else. but then if Richards was known as an asshole generally (as was douchebag Gibson) before this indeed why bother?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I am pretty certain I've read that he is a mason.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

I think Richards was just trying to hurt these people's feelings. If he instead said, "Hahahah, laugh it up you ignorant fucks!" that wouldn't be racist, right? But, would anyone call the hecklers racist if they responded, "Shut up, you god damn cracker! Get off the stage, white boy! You suck!" Probably not, right?

If you call someone a redneck, you're lumping him in with a steretype that is intented to hurt him. Not racist, but cultural. Half the people who call people the N-word in places like NY or LA are talking specifically about selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes. From what little we see here, it sounds as if these hecklers have been acting like selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes long enough to make him flip out.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous. In this particular case, there's a good chance that he probably is a racist, just like there was a good chance, upon the revelation of Mark Foley's improprieties, that he was gay. But the kneejerkism makes me uncomfortable.

This is no longer worth arguing, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

numerous ilxers (some banned, some not banned) to thread...

but Richards IS way over that here, in the end

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

Well... what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comments?

xpost - Ally OTM again.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

People do funny things when they're put on the spot.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

nude spock droppin science

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous.

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

did you guys know that, like, words are just words?? i bet i just blew your mind

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure what I'm not getting, but it's definitely something.
A) that's an inappropriate word
Yeh, it's a word often used to offend/insult/belittle, but does that make it unsayable?
B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching?
I don't like that much either, and it was definitely an abuse of stage-power, and mean-spirited. But I can think of at least one reason why he could have said it without being a racist, and am confused by all the people who think it's cast iron without knowing what the heckler said. Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people?

what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comment
Did he say that, or did he say that fifty years ago, he would have been getting lynched? It's not that he's saying "you'd have got lynched for saying that, back when we whites ruled the world".

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

what does he say before he leaves the stage? something like: "words words we still have words" or something. was he trying to be lenny bruce? i think it probably was something like that and it got out of hand and he's just not funny or quick enough to make it work. dude is like 80.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

oh noes what if he uses 'i had to say it so many times because it was improv and i had several minutes left!' as an excuse!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

WARNING: WE HAVE PASSED THE EVENT HORIZON. BE PREPARED TO REHASH EVERY ILE RACISM DISCUSSION EVER, ON LOOP, AD INFINITUM.

for fuck's sake, people.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

"OK guys, I want a suggestion for a racial epiphet you hear everyday..."

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

coon!

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

oh wait

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

EVERYday

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

-- Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (evi...), November 20th, 2006 1:00 PM. (sexyDancer) (later) (link)

He's only got 32 degrees, but close enough.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1815/marsellos1zt1.jpg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

people do not funny things when put on the spot for being not funny, not funny.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people

!!!

there is nothing equivalent to threatening lynching because there was no time in American history where black Americans were in a position to make a regular practice of lynching white Americans. are you fucking kidding me?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

He probably said it because subconsciously he was trying to give an egomaniac a bit of an inferiority complex.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

I have no idea what Michael Richards believes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

Whose Lynching Is It, Anyway?

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

Well, NS, I'd buy your "People do stupid shit" argument if it was just him saying the word once, but to scream it over and over again and couple it with a lynching reference? I don't think that is particularly excusable as "funny things." That is, at best, completely bonkers.

xpost jesus christ, stet, no one said "blacks can't be racist," they're saying "What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified."

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

did you know black people can be racist too? FACT.

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

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