full disclosure i did not watch his monologue nor do i plan to but like Wasserman, at this point I've seen enough
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Monday, 14 November 2022 20:02 (one year ago) link
"at least he wasn't doing the dumb i smoke where cigarettes where most people can't power move thing."
that was half of Bill Hicks act
― akm, Monday, 14 November 2022 20:05 (one year ago) link
you used to be able to smoke in wayyyy more places when bill was alive
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 14 November 2022 20:52 (one year ago) link
true, I was just pointing out that chappelle lifted that schtick
― akm, Monday, 14 November 2022 21:55 (one year ago) link
if Hicks was still alive he'd be a full-on bigoted cunt too
― Burnt Norton 360 (Noodle Vague), Monday, 14 November 2022 21:57 (one year ago) link
Like, idk, if you're on the internet it def seems like political comedy in all its forms has basically outstayed its welcome.
RIP, "political comedy". You had a good run.
― The Bankruptcy of the Planet of the Apes (PBKR), Monday, 14 November 2022 21:59 (one year ago) link
I don't mean to single you out NV, but the frequency with which ilx puts imaginary not-dead Bill Hicks on trial for contemporary political crimes is kind of weird? Dude's been dead for over 28 years but he gets brought up here remarkably often and most of those times it's this fantasy projection into a future he never lived in thing. I genuinely don't get it, aren't there enough bigoted cunts around now?
― rob, Monday, 14 November 2022 22:31 (one year ago) link
agree. I have no idea how bill hicks would have turned out. he undoubtedly influenced a lot of shitty comics and people, but also influenced a lot of great ones and, even if his stuff hasn't aged extremely well (and IMO most comedy doesn't age well.... Bob Newhart being the exception) he was fucking funny and edgy and great at the time.
anyway, Potato Hole and Sarah Sherman's weekend update bit aside, the best part of the episode was Blackstar
― akm, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 00:23 (one year ago) link
I don't even want to dive into what those dudes subscribe to.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 00:25 (one year ago) link
blackstar? yeah no shit
― akm, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 00:31 (one year ago) link
i'm unaware of mos def/bey being problematic but the other dude has some fucking issues. he remains a good rapper though. as I said somewhere on ILM, hip hop is rife with this kind of nonsense, not new, and people don't like to call it out.
― akm, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 00:34 (one year ago) link
Hicks had a lot of bad shit but his most famous bit is about opening your heart to love and using the world's money for bombs to feed everyone instead of closing yourself off and stocking up on guns and fear. Maybe he would have gotten even worse over time but... dude was a lib.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 00:36 (one year ago) link
…ertarian
― insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 01:20 (one year ago) link
I think 95% of Bill Hicks bashing is “I used to like this when I was young so let me telegraph how much smarter and enlightened I am now.”
― insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 01:21 (one year ago) link
Kevin Smith Syndrome
― insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 01:22 (one year ago) link
kevin smith was legitimately good when we were young and legitimately lame now but his heart seems to be in the right place and you can't hate anyone who wrote a tweet about their wife's clit the way he did
― akm, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 01:43 (one year ago) link
what about her taint, though
― papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 01:45 (one year ago) link
agreed.
― bible fumes (stevie), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 08:52 (one year ago) link
It was a response to the post at the time but I guess without imagining a Hicks that doesn't exist it's easier to say there was stuff in his actual routines that was misanthropic and misogynist and leave it there
― Burnt Norton 360 (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 09:14 (one year ago) link
There was stuff in his routines that was misanthropic and misogynist, and also homophobic. It wasn't the entirety of it, and he'd already dropped the homophobic material before he died, so I guess there's a possibility he might have evolved past that.
― bible fumes (stevie), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 09:26 (one year ago) link
Frank Zappa probably a better analogy, I knew a lot of people who liked Kevin Smith growing up but we didn't think he was some transcendental talent or anything like that
― frogbs, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 14:23 (one year ago) link
xpost Good we have Howard Stern around to show that it’s at least possible.
― The self-titled drags (Eazy), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 14:30 (one year ago) link
Single most offensive thing Hicks did was popularize the use of holding the mic cupped real close to his mouth and going DOOT-DOOT-DOOT-DOOT-DOOT-DOOT like a machine gun.
― pplains, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 15:02 (one year ago) link
not sure Hicks deserves the blame therehttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/BitesizedEnchantedAnkolewatusi-size_restricted.gif
― bible fumes (stevie), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 15:12 (one year ago) link
I maintain the cultural window was open for Michelle Wolf far too briefly
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Monday, November 14, 2022 2:12 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
Feel like some of her sentiments on "outrage culture" and metoo and feminism would not go over well as posts on ilx (acknowledging the inherent differences between stand up bits and ilx posts)
― Evan, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 15:17 (one year ago) link
I think the comedy world's rallying around to try to place itself above criticism just made people want to criticize harder. I do notice a lot of people on twitter not seeming to understand how comedy works however which is usually eyeroll inducing.
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 15:52 (one year ago) link
these people genuinely seem to think that audiences can't tell the difference between a comedian making a joke and a comedian trying to do satire or social commentary. like there's a reason Norm MacDonald never caught this kind of flack for his LGBTQ material
― frogbs, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 16:03 (one year ago) link
It's a worthwhile question whether political comedy is necessary. I used to think so, I guess? The Washington Post Drawing Board was one of my main ways of understanding the world when I was a child. Plus Doonesbury and Bloom County. Then Weekend Update and the Daily Show, etc.
When the news got to be too much, "what can we make fun of?" was a useful filter. There was no way for me, at nine years old, to get a comprehensive grasp of the economy or the Middle East, but I could certainly get the gist of a joke about Ronald Reagan; humor helped me understand the world.
I am not sure that's so anymore. Some things have achieved a level of absurdity that satire can't match - and the pace of events sometimes exceeds the typing speed of every humorist in L.A.
Just think about the bits with pillow guy and the landscaping business press conference and Giuliani's hair dye. Comedians and late-night gag writers could be forgiven for simply shrugging and saying, "Uh, okay, reality is too fucking stupid to even parody anymore." They could all quit en masse and go do goat farming or something.
― iliac crestfallen (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 16:16 (one year ago) link
a few years ago I thought the Conan O'Brien style of late night comedy was outdated because politics was becoming so absurd and was integrating itself so closely into our daily lives that it felt like you couldn't just ignore it. but I really yearn for that sort of thing again. I cannot fucking stand another "person man woman camera TV" joke. since I brought up Norm I'll mention something he said about Trump-era humor, which is that it fundamentally doesn't work because the people writing it hate the man so goddamn much. when SNL was doing stuff about Clinton there was at least some level of affection behind it. imo the MyPillow stuff was at least funny for a while because the dude at least had this oblivious Midwestern pitchman charm to him, same reason why it was more fun to mock Alex Jones before it became clear that the dude was actually just a total lunatic.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 16:28 (one year ago) link
I don't think that lack of affection is what makes Trump-era political humour bad, it's more that irreverent humour about Trump is redundant because Trump is already irreverent. I remember seeing this quote from Chappelle about Trump calling covid "the kung-flu" where Chappelle said something like (paraphrasing) 'ok, that's pretty funny, but you shouldn't be saying it when you're the president. *I* should be the one making jokes about the kung-flu, *you* should be the one being serious and dull and responsible'.
The traditional dynamic is that politicians present an image of seriousness and respectability and responsibility and the comedians that mocked them had licence to be flip and offensive, but then Trump ate comedians lunch by being more irreverent and offensive that they were, so comedians were reduced to taking on the serious/responsible role - all that 'have you no decency, sir' Colbert type stuff
― soref, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 17:00 (one year ago) link
Agreed. At present I find both styles dire, and I am way past ready for the planet to be consumed by an exploding star
When I have laughed in the last eight years, it has not been because a comedian said something
YMMV
― iliac crestfallen (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 17:09 (one year ago) link
the comedians who mocked Nixon in the 70s hated him, but it still worked because he was someone who believed in respectability and keeping up appearances, Trump is like if instead of Nixon saying "I'm not a crook" he said, "yeah, I'm a crook, so what" and then took the piss out of his opponents for caring about the fact he was a crook
― soref, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 17:13 (one year ago) link
In a nutshell, this ... Again, Andrew Potter's On Decline is the (brief) text that has realigned my thoughts the most clearly over the last couple years in positing that everything we once hailed as counterculture has become culture, and vice versa, and it's especially difficult for liberals to wrestle with that reality.
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 17:44 (one year ago) link
Especially Gen X liberals
― G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 17:52 (one year ago) link
I mean, yeah
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 18:00 (one year ago) link
I feel like Obama actually being pretty good at a kind of stand-up comedy is also part of the new dynamic though I don't have a solid theory about it. Maybe something about how in terms of comedic performances that actually got under Trump's skin, Obama can never be topped (much to all our regret, possibly)
― rob, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 18:12 (one year ago) link
i think that's right even tho on the good-at-stand-up scale trump > obama
(maybe that's why it rankled)
― mark s, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 18:17 (one year ago) link
Trump hosted SNL before becoming president
― “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh” (President Keyes), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 18:18 (one year ago) link
You should listen to the preezy of the united steezy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziwYbVx_-qg
― iliac crestfallen (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 18:31 (one year ago) link
God, Jimmy Fallon. The most cringe.
― bible fumes (stevie), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 19:08 (one year ago) link
i asked my kid and now know that in fact the world is made of cringe. it is the fundamental building block of matter.
― i'm right back on my shit (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 15 November 2022 21:43 (one year ago) link
I cannot watch Fallon, it's physically painful.
― jmm, Tuesday, 15 November 2022 21:48 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjmpqgkde0s
― “Cheeky cheeky!” she trills, nearly demolishing a roadside post (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 16 November 2022 06:18 (one year ago) link
Tim Heidecker's stuff is kind of "about" Trump often and works by emulating the world of grifters around him instead of directly going orange man bad.
I'm skeptical if the political reality ever wasn't totally absurd once you got down to it. Certainly the Third Reich was plenty absurd and there's tons of good comedy mocking it.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 November 2022 11:01 (one year ago) link
I think most anti-bush comedy was about as bad and toothless as the orange man stuff - have you tried rewatching any of it recently? somehow we came to expect more as an audience
maybe it felt more transgressive back then in the US context when the rest of the media had to support bush by default (and comedy and punditry hadn't entirely merged yet) but the actual jokes were as hacky and surface as any of the trump stuff
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 16 November 2022 11:36 (one year ago) link
comparing the two eras, my memory is that the Bush-era stuff often felt a lot more pompous & self-congratulatory. people would compare Jon Stewart to Edward R Murrow and say things like "he's not a Bush he's just a SHRUB LOL!" and get a big standing ovation as if that was a really brave heroic thing to say. with Trump people seem to just laugh at him like any other celebrity.
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 16 November 2022 13:40 (one year ago) link
most Bush era comedy was bad, but I don't think it had the same thing where all the people doing impressions of Trump come across like tribute acts rather than mockery, it's like someone doing an impression of Pee Wee Herman or something, Trump is already an entertainer doing a bit.
I think this was a funny Trump spoof, though I suppose it's more a spoof of the way the media covers him, but the idea of the tortured psyche underneath the schtick - 'Big Talk: Trump Just Announced He’s The Only Person Who Can Stop The Vines That Strangle Him In His Reflection'
https://clickhole.com/big-talk-trump-just-announced-he-s-the-only-person-who-1825122779/
― soref, Wednesday, 16 November 2022 13:45 (one year ago) link
colbert's correspondents dinner shit was pretty amazing at the time given the environment. i should re-watch to re-eval but fuck that i'ma just clap for ppl who are hardcore now
― i'm right back on my shit (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 16 November 2022 13:50 (one year ago) link
yeah I think Tim Heidecker does a really good job of it, imo what makes his current standup routine work is that like 90% of it is just what people like Jim Breuer are doing now
― frogbs, Wednesday, 16 November 2022 14:37 (one year ago) link
Anthony Atamanuik is the only Trump impersonator who got to that vile, lizard core of the man
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 November 2022 14:42 (one year ago) link