like the queen this thread will never die: in which we ALL resign (ourselves to disgusting miseries to post-boris politics 2022)

Sarc aside I wouldn't expect much in the way of decent political journalism from UK pundits

Immigration can be theoretically separated from race, I suppose, tho it very much isn't. Straightforward answer is that people's political identities can always be at odds with other aspects of who they are, the intersections are real

Is there a good place to read about why poc like Patel, braverman etc. seem so angry and active in fighting migrants, who are presumably also poc?

Are the POC were Indians, middle class and Hindu?

Strike that "were".

there is of course a "pull the ladder up" mentality among many second generation immigrants, people often side with bullies in order to not be the victim, it isn't really a mystery- but with Patel & Braverman it isn't so much why they have the extreme version of these values (because they are both garbage human beings, that's about it) but why they have been placed in positions of power by racists who are very keen not to be seen as racist.

it's not a direct answer to youn's question but despite covering events from more than 200 yrs ago it contains a *lot* of material that moves towards an answer: read c.l.r.james's the black jacobins and pay close attention to the shifting political and miltary allegiances on haiti before during and after the revolution of the mulattoes and the free blacks (and if it comes to that to rival currents in revolutionary paris at the same time, in relation to the status of this colony as it was reaching towards independence)

I think that poster a hoy hoy is right. There does seem to be a phenomenon here.

There is surely some kind of "Nixon in China" aspect -- the most useful and plausible person for enacting (let's suppose they are) "racist policies" is someone from a racial minority who can say "this can't be a racist policy, look who's enacting it".

And these individuals seem to embrace that role.

I'd imagine Patel would view her family as more valuable immigrants than say some poorer S Asian/African/Caribbean ones who came to Britain before her parents did to work in the textiles industry, drive buses etc. And I find it easy to imagine with this mindset that she will have even less empathy with asylum seekers in this era. And perhaps a lot of posh Indian POC of Patel's generation have parents who were very much influenced by caste system prejudices from the empire days. I know her parents were from Uganda but the British tried to impose it there as well, maybe with less success than in India.

this week Rachel Reeves criticized the government for being inefficient at deportations

― saigo no ice cream (Noodle Vague), Friday, 7 October 2022 10:44 (yesterday)

Sure, but this week the Home Secretary expressed a wish to get immigration down to the ten-thousands, revealed the dream mentioned by koogs above, announced an intention to leave the ECHR, announced legislation to create a “blanket ban” on anyone who enters the UK illegally, including by small boats, from claiming refuge.

I absolutely take your point that the Tory party are at least incoherent - I think I heard today that Braverman had stepped back from some of these because Liz Truss reined her in. A Labour party with higher discipline might be more of a danger, but I don't think the discipline will survive power, certainly not to the extent that that list of ideas, if proposed, would have any chance.

(An interesting point is why we're heading from the Shadow Chancellor on this when Yvette Cooper is the Shadow Home Secretary)

Is it kind of "look look I think the same thing, so vote for me" mindset?

I wonder if it's worth pointing out that neither Patel nor Braverman are 'direct' immigrants, both from families who emigrated from India to Uganda in the one case and Keyna / Mauritius in the other - no difference according to their own racist immigration system, but they may have arrived here separated in both class and community from the majority of immigrants. I've no idea if this is a factor in the bizarre spectacle this week of Braverman railing against the recent India-UK trade deal because Indian immigrants make up the largest number of visa overstayers in the UK (and then apparently being told to zip it by Truss).

xp i would think given Kieth's general indifference to actual politics we can think of Reeves as the ideological core of the PLP at this point, in a similar way to Brown being the eminence gris of Blairism

I can only assume Patel and Braverman want people to suffer more than their parents did in order to 'justify' that relative hardship. Why should other people have it easier than they did?

"Sure, but this week the Home Secretary expressed a wish to get immigration down to the ten-thousands, revealed the dream mentioned by koogs above, announced an intention to leave the ECHR, announced legislation to create a “blanket ban” on anyone who enters the UK illegally, including by small boats, from claiming refuge."

Keep telling yourselves Labour won't shoot boats.

before we get into what looks to me like Lab getting very chummy with Hindutva-adjacent elements

Xxp

‘Why should people have it easier than me’ is the defining mindset of modern conservatism.

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 52% (-2)
CON: 22% (+1)
LDEM: 9% (+2)
GRN: 6% (-)

via @YouGov, 06 - 07 Octhttps://t.co/QFziTkPEXi

— Britain Elects (@BritainElects) October 8, 2022

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/07/company-insolvencies-hit-13-year-high-in-england-and-wales

some of us are not particularly wedded to the concept of nation states in general

Noodle Vague v. generously and patiently explained the attitude to immigration in the UK, and the attitudes of the regular posters on this thread to Youn, but this bit perplexed me. Given the paucity of available alternatives, what exactly would they like instead? Empires?

I can completely understand Youn believing ILX to be hostile, even tho I know it's not most of time - I think apart from the fact that successively worse UK governments have made everyone angry and/or jaded, and the anger spills out in unintended directions, it is also tied up with the differences between how US & UK people josh with their friends - I've witnessed many examples of US folks being shocked at the way Brits will address their friends with exclamations of "You bastard!", etc.

both from families who emigrated from India to Uganda in the one case and Keyna / Mauritius in the other

British Empire being cut a bit too much slack here, and from an Irish poster at that. I don't think "emigrated from India" cuts it here, Andrew. Certainly my former colleague who grew up on a wildlife reserve in Uganda described his grandfather's Gujarat village being visited by a Royal Navy gunboat and his grandfather and his fellow villagers being forced to board the ship to Africa at gunpoint.

what exactly would they like instead?

nothing of course

xp

recently my Irish mum told me her brother was doing some research before he died and was about 99% certain that their great-grandmother was Indian. It might put a different explanation on the olive skin complexion other than pre-historical Turkish farmers or that Spanish armada nonsense. But saying that my dad was a thoroughbred Kerryman and he had a very a brownish complexion, he looked like a balding Omar Sharif.

"what exactly would they like instead"

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/26/border-free-world-better-hostile-immigration-policies?

comrades Left and Alph have answered the question for me, and yes, same

the Luke de Noronha and Gracie Mae Bradley piece quotes Mike Davis, going to read some more of him at some point - he's really good.

I'm not really sure what your point is, GG, or what you think my point is?

(((xpost - or more generally assimilation instead of recency of immigration not that forced assimilation of differences is in any way desirable; the way individual identity is constructed, parties form around that, and the fluidity for forming parties or governments seem interesting; I apologize for posting on this thread when for others it's a different conversation)))

(((and the way language and external physical characteristics play into race determination and judgments of difference)))

North Sea oil and gas exploration 'good for the environment' : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-63184412

Tax cuts for everything.

EXCL - Bonk for Britain

Cabinet minister suggests women should get tax cuts for having children to encourage a baby boom and wean Britain off immigration 😍👶

Scheme already exists in Hungary. https://t.co/rw3J3FP8FT

— Kate Ferguson (@kateferguson4) October 8, 2022

what next, medals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honour_of_the_German_Mother

quite a surprise to see the party of the two child limit on tax credits going full on natalist

Jacob Rees-Mogg I presume.

a lesser government might think that "make more people" would be in conflict with "there's too many people" when it comes to immigration but y'know

Any more detailed explication of what was a cause for insult or ridicule would be much appreciated. But I get the sense that ILX is hostile.

― youn, Saturday, October 8, 2022 8:29 AM (yesterday)

Sorry been busy and I killed my phone. This isn't the appropriate thread to hash out the issues with your Americentric hot take. If you want to find a better thread I'll do my best to look out for it.

This might be a good one.

Is there ILX in Hell?

You would like to meet in Hell?

criminal barristers agree 15% pay rise (among some other concessions)

The Criminal Bar has voted to accept the proposal made by the Government. 

With 57% voting to accept the offer made by Government

Action is suspended from 18.00hrs this evening

The Criminal Bar Association has a long history of respecting and unifying around the majority vote.

— The CBA (@TheCriminalBar) October 10, 2022

Good for them, and hopefully other strikers can point to the 15 per cent rise and say ‘us too!’

trick or..... trick

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/10/kwasi-kwarteng-debt-cutting-plan-31-october-obr-forecasts

Bird charity to form a military wing

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/10/rspb-not-ruling-out-direct-action-to-defend-nature-from-government-policy?

eco-maoism baby! protracted people's war starts here. start building up a revolutionary base in the lake district or somewhere like that

of course in the real world even environmentalists can't bring themselves to reject "growth" /despair

just not killing any sparrows though!

of course we can't simply import revolutionary tactics from another time and place, our four pests will necessarily be different

How bad is it for Truss? Mortgages rates going up hasn't even been given a mention in this piece.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/10/liz-truss-loyalty-conservative-leader-endgame

Lol

This is so funny to me - yeah let's do this, also with Canada - if it's offered under same terms as EU FOM with mutual recognition of say education, just watch emigration rise 👍👍👍👍 https://t.co/js8Ouk4ZZ1

— the gang reads Mike Davis (@lmartods) October 10, 2022

Exclusive:

Liz Truss is shelving Michael Gove's plans to end no-fault evictions, which were due to be introduced in this Parliamentary session

The Times has been told that they are not considered a priority & could be killed off entirely, despite being a manifesto commitment

— Steven Swinford (@Steven_Swinford) October 10, 2022

what are no-fault evictions? is just that like booting tenants out just cos?

So, there has to be a (de)fault before an eviction can be actioned?

And LT is ending the ending of this?

Wow she really wants to avoid being liked by anybody!

I think I dropped a would have instead of has.

Actually, nm.

xxp I'm fairly sure that's the case, yes