David Lynch - Classic or Dud

I remember when I saw Pulp Fiction, it felt like a less weird Wild at Heart with all of the sexual undertones - overtones? - with all of the naughty bits either removed or turned into cartoonish naughty bits, as if Quentin Tarantino was uncomfortable with sex. I had a similar feeling with Natural Born Killers. They both felt like less interesting variations of Lynch's film made by overgrown children without any of the underlying weirdness. Or with imitations of the underlying weirdness. I'm reasonably confident that this isn't an original take, but it was my first thought.

When I was young I remember that David Lynch was all over the media. He was hot stuff. But it's surprising how few films he has actually directed. How little he has to show. I assume he must have found it really hard to get funding, which might explain all the media appearances; he was selling himself. His IMDB entry is dominated, totally dominated with shorts. Short films, not shorts. I don't mean that his IMDB entry is dominated with shorts. He wears formal wear. Not shorts.

And yet he was all over the media because he was good in interviews and he looked the part; along with Tim Burton he was the model, the very archetype of the early-1990s arty-but-famous mainstream-underground creative talent. I'm surprised to find out his most recent feature film was Inland Empire back in 2006. His most recent credit is the video for "I Am the Shaman", a song by Donovan(!) released in 2021(!). I remember he did an album. With a woman. Sort of floaty singing noises. With a woman. I imagine him sitting at the mixing desk looking at the faders, thinking about Monica Bellucci.

He's obviously busy, but when I think of him I am filled with a wistful sense of melancholy because he reminds me of glossy magazines.

There was def some stuff toward the beginning of WAH that had me thinking it felt like a possible source for some of Tarantino's schtick (line readings like: "Did I ever tell you this snakeskin jacket represents my individuality and belief in personal freedom?"). Or maybe it was just kind of synchronicity... WAH feels plugged into the era's "indie film scene" in a certain way – Crispin Glover showing up; John Lurie sitting around in one scene – that I don't otherwise associate w/Lynch so much.

It's also true there was a mini-trend of violent, "young lovers on the run" flicks in the early '90s – I know QT wrote True Romance and (sort of wrote) Natural Born Killers – not sure if WAH "inspired" either of those screenplays or if he already had them going.

His cameo in Spielberg’s autobiographical The Fablemans has gone down well. Apparently it’s a spoiler to say who he plays so I won’t dig.

"The audience broke into cheers and claps three times during david lynch’s cameo... and it was well deserved." "Judd Hirsch & David Lynch should go for Best Supporting Oscar as a team."https://t.co/NSzBZE2UuO pic.twitter.com/xV8HLvTIei

— --------- (@fatecolossal) September 11, 2022

Fabelmans, sorry.

No weather report for weeks now. I hope he's OK.

I finally revisited Lost Highway… this is the one that put me off Lynch for decades, when I saw it in the theater. I was surprised by how little of it I remembered; basically just the beginning section and a little at the end. I had no memory of the entire Balthazar Getty story in the middle, which is the most entertaining/engaging part!

It’s wild how much that section has the “look & feel” of Mulholland Drive… not just the way it’s filmed (although very much that), but also the unhurried but deliberate pacing, and the (genuinely funny) offbeat humor involving bizarre violence. The “road rage” scene is great.

The movie is different from most Lynch films in a few ways; his main characters are usually extremely vivid, which is not the case here… they’re quite “blank,” I guess on purpose. Also, the soundtrack has not much Badalamenti, and instead these songs with vocals that sort of pop in and distract from the action rather than complementing it (…Lou Reed doing “This Magic Moment”?!).

The brief appearance of Marilyn Manson is (obviously) unfortunate, in retrospect; and along with some of the music, grounds the film a little too strongly in that specific mid-‘90s L.A., Ray Gun magazine milieu.

I enjoyed watching it, and thought a lot of it was pretty compelling (not sure why I had such a negative reaction in college!)… but it’s hard to avoid feeling like it didn’t quite “work” the way it should. Or maybe seeing it as a rough draft of the (far superior) Mulholland Drive…

how oj simpson-y was it, iyo? i just recently heard that the case inspired the story.

It doesn't quite work except as a draft. The actors are unpleasant and not well cast (Getty? Loggia? Pryor?). The opening credit sequence is tops, though.

I thought Loggia was great!

He wanders in from a funnier film.

great capsule review morrisp (and good calls Alfred)

Thx! I’m actually glad I ended up seeing his later movies this way – getting newly interested with Twin Peaks: The Return; then watching Mulholland Drive; and then the others – as I doubt I would’ve appreciated them as much otherwise.

I keep getting ads for a David Lynch MFA program and it seems like it’s just… transcendental meditation classes?

I’d rather have a John Carpenter MFA, he’ll get high and challenge you to some NBA 2K.

it seems like it’s just… transcendental meditation classes?

Adds up. Should have some meteorology as well though.

we should have a thread like 'what's on your favorite artist's mfa curriculum'

i want to attend whoever's is like, we walk along a highway and look at leaves

Feel like that could be Kelly Reichardt

Very funny that the Eraserhead baby has an entry on the "Villains" wiki

— machine gun kelly reichardt (@LingoUnbound) March 8, 2023

I just got the ad for that “screenwriting” MFA program where it seems you actually learn TM… pretty funny.

David Lynch SCOOP! He says "bloody" in the British sense:

Now that's all in the bloody history books!

Also he has possibly been brainwashed by his TM gurus, going by the final lines in the interview.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FindLaura/comments/12unmgu/april_2023_cahiers_du_cinema_interview_with_david/

Interesting interview, thx

Wonder why he doesn’t want to hear about the new Dune movie(?)

The bloody is prob just an artefact of his answers being translated into French & then back again

Wonder why he doesn’t want to hear about the new Dune movie(?)

why would he?

None of that is new info. This paragraph hints more about what wont' be happening in the future.

"If I had the strength, I would prefer to embark on a series. If I had the strength..."

xp you tell me… I don’t know a lot about Dune, but I thought he was really displeased with what the studio did to his version etc. So it’s not immediately obvious to me why he would have bitter or complicated feelings about a new version

Everything direct interview I've ever read about him regarding his Dune is that it was an incredibly painful experience and I doubt he likes thinking about it, much less talking about it or seeing how someone else would approach the problem of Dune. David Lynch is very much about the WORK, and taking it seriously and making something that feels RIGHT. Dune was his movie that took the most amount of work in terms of dollars and sets and the sheer magnitude of it all was overwhelming and it turned out the most wrong. I've been wondering lately if the Criterion Collection will do Dune since they've done his other works, but if he has anything to do with it they won't. Not that he has any control over it, but he would not participate in it and it might would even damage their relationship. I think he appreciates that Dune had to happen for him to get where he is today, but it was a colossal public humiliation in his eyes.

What does he mean he didn't go to film school? He studied film at the American Film Institute, right? I gather that experience was very different than what we think of now as a film school; I think Eraserhead was more or less his film school. I don't know that he took a Fundamentals of How To Work A Camera class?

He goes on about fish so much, I have to wonder if he eats seafood.

None of the TM stuff is alarming, he's been going on about that stuff forever. It did him a lot of good, apparently, and so he thinks it would help everybody else.

Thx, Cow Art. It’s interesting that he still has such negative/complicated feelings about that movie, after 40 years of success (to put it mildly)

According to Edelstein, we couldn't do A Straight Story today because it's just a simple story, without a concept.

Oh, we can do whatever we want.

<3

It's an odd comment anyway, that movie totally has a "concept"... I suppose he meant a studio wouldn't know how to market it today, but I'm not sure why

That's also probably a translation issue.

Not that he has any control over it, but he would not participate in it and it might would even damage their relationship. I think he appreciates that Dune had to happen for him to get where he is today, but it was a colossal public humiliation in his eyes.

He actually showed some surprising interest in it in an interview last year:

AVC: Some notable filmmakers have returned to their works years later with re-edits, because just as a viewer’s relationship to a piece of art can change over time, so too can a creator’s. Was a new narrative cut something you ever considered with Inland Empire?

DL: No. But Dune—people have said, “Don’t you want to go back and fiddle with Dune?” And I was so depressed and sickened by it, you know? I want to say, I loved everybody that I worked with; they were so fantastic. I loved all the actors; I loved the crew; I loved working in Mexico; I loved everything except that I didn’t have final cut. And I even loved Dino [De Laurentiis], who wouldn’t give me what I wanted [laughs]. And Raffaella, the producer, who was his daughter—I loved her. But the thing was a horrible sadness and failure to me, and if I could go back in I’ve thought, well, maybe I would on that one go back in.

AVC: Really?

DL: Yeah, but I mean, nobody’s…it’s not going to happen.

AVC: Well that’s interesting, because in the past you were always much less open to it.

David Lynch: Yeah, I wanted to walk away. I always say, and it’s true, that with Dune, I sold out before I finished. It’s not like there’s a bunch of gold in the vaults waiting to be cut and put back together. It’s like, early on I knew what Dino wanted and what I could get away with and what I couldn’t. And so I started selling out, and it’s a sad, sad, pathetic, ridiculous story. But I would like to see what is there. I can’t remember, that’s the weird thing [laughs]. I can’t remember. And so it might be interesting—there could be something there. But I don’t think it’s a silk purse. I know it’s a sow’s ear.

That would be interesting. Turn Lynch loose in the Dune vaults and have him recut everything however he wants. Three hours of sandworms and static with a Harry Dean Stanton voiceover.

That thing about "selling out" as he made the film is painful, I get why it must still burn in his stomach.

I'm sure it was painful, but also Dune (and Dino) let him make Blue Velvet, which is what let him make Twin Peaks and pretty much everything he's done since. Fair trade.

thru the alley, behind the marketplace

I was watching Elephant Man again today, and thinking about his career. It's really pretty nuts.

1. He's in art school and makes a sculpture that incorporates film (Six Men Getting Sick)because he wants a painting that moves.

2. Somebody sees it and likes it and commissions him to make another similar piece, or an installation in their house or something. With the downpayment he buys a decent camera but he doesn't know how to work it and the commissioned film is all overexposed and messed up. *FAILURE* The buyer is cool and says hey, whatever, just make something and give me a print. So he makes The Alphabet.

3. The Alphabet gets him a grant from the AFI to make The Grandmother.

4. Based on the strength of the Grandmother, the AFI lets him in to their new program and he packs up the family and moves to California. He's frustrated because he can't get his Gardenback project off the ground, and he's going to quit and they say "hey, don't leave, what do you want to do." "Eraserhead."

5. Him and his buddies work on Eraserhead for five years. I think he gets divorced while this is going on, he's living in the Eraserhead set and delivering newspapers for money. But it gets made! It gets some sort of distribution and becomes a midnight movie hit!

6. Lynch is working with a producer who is buddies with Mel Brooks. He randomly decides he wants to make The Elephant Man, but Mel Brooks controls the rights. Mel loves Eraserhead, so it's in the bag. Lynch is going to make a real studio film.

7. This is where it gets really interesting to me. Lynch has no idea what he's doing. With Eraserhead he had no money but a whole lot of time. Him and his friends figured things out as they went along and rehearsed things meticulously down to how particular syllables are said. With Elephant Man, there's lots of money but a strict schedule. Lynch blows weeks of time because he thinks he is responsible for the special effects. He's dicking around with plaster and trying to make the Elephant Man prosthetics and it's all fucking up and he's not prepared to go to England and work with Real Actors. The real actors don't know what to make of him and he can tell. Some of them are extremely skeptical. It must feel awful, like being a substitute teacher for the first time and the kids all know that you have no clue what is going on. And yet, it works! It's nominated for an a bunch of Oscars!

8. And still things ramp up. At this point he can do whatever he wants. He's offered Return of the Jedi but turns it down and winds up making a pseudo Star Wars movie, Dune. The scale is immense. He's farther away from things, there are multiple crews so he's not always supervising all of the shots. A lot of those amazing sets were actually finely crafted out of wood, the amount of labor involved was bonkers. And I don't think it was ever going to work. If he had total creative control, final cut and everything, I don't think his Dune was going to be a great movie. Elephant Man worked because it was small; there's not really a lot of plot. Plot isn't really what Lynch is about at all and Dune (the book) is all plot. And I doubt he was ever that interested in making a proper Dune. Either he was using it as a vehicle to get his own wack ideas onto the screen (a la Jodorowsky) or he was swept up in his accidental film career and lost sight of his strengths. But it was a shit show. The studio made Dune coloring books for kids, action figures, this was going to be the next big thing except it definitely was not. A lot of people bet a lot of money on Lynch and lost. He must have felt that the industry finally figured out that he did not know what he was doing.

But then he makes Blue Velvet and everything is cool. I can't imagine what all of the above must have felt like.

But imagine if Dune had been a success and he went on to create many bizarre big budget sci-fi films. That would have been cool too!

I have about a week to watch his version of Dune before it leaves Criterion. I remember liking it when I finally saw it years ago despite its rep as a failure. Who knows what I will think now.

I saw ‘Dune’ when I was 11 or 12 and thought it was perfect. I hadn’t read the book beforehand and it made sense to me. Even watching it today, I don’t really agree with much of the criticism back then or Lynch’s attitude towards it. I appreciate it even more now thinking about how unique a production it was. I really like the new version, but I love Lynch’s.

I like it for what it is. It’s like a dream and I’m happy it’s out there. But it feels like a very compromised movie. It’s not Lynchy enough because it’s tied to Herbert and Lynch can’t make the Herbert stuff work. But there are so many amazing visuals that i’m happy to watch it anytime.

Cow_Art, thanks for the rundown; I had no idea Eraserhead took five years!
Also, didn't know about the Mel Brooks connection... I like him even more now...

It’s really something to contemplate if he had directed Return of the Jedi.

Michael J. Anderson as The Yoda from Another Place

Yeah, Jack Nance kept that haircut for five years! Although I doubt he kept it that vertical all the time. There’s one shot where it shows Henry opening a door, there’s a cut and then he’s coming out the door on the other side, or something like that. Over a year passed between the two shots.

Towards the end they ran out of money and Lynch was very dispirited, he was thinking about finishing it with stop motion animation.

There are a couple of deleted scenes that have never shown up. I can’t remember if they are lost or if Lynch doesn’t want to share.

Jedi certainly would have been interesting. On one hand, it would have been even more pressure than Dune. But Lucas would have been there to hold his hand. It may have turned out like Spielberg/Hooper on Poltergeist. I think they also offered it to Cronenberg who was not interested.

When I finally watched Dune in two sittings, after the first hour I thought it was actually pretty entertaining and didn't see why it was so hated. Then I watched the second hour and thought, "ah."

So

many

voice-overs

Lynch has a funny thing with dialog. His people often do not talk like real people and this normally works. I don't think it works as well when they're talking about space gobbledygook. Lynchisms work best when they are grounded in the real world in some way. Which is one reason why I have little patience for his later, experimental short films, like Ant Head. I do like Rabbits though.

I've fallen down a Dune Ebay rabbit hole. I kinda want a Sandworm but that is some expensive plastic.

It's fine. Hitchcock's characters don't talk like real people, much less other movie characters.

Last night, after the above discussion, I signed up for a Criterion Channel trial and watched the first 20-25 minutes or so of Dune… don’t think I can do anymore, y’all, but a scene with Kyle M., Sir Patrick Stewart, and Dean Stockwell was something I did not expect!

Watched Dune for the first time last year. Best part of it for me was watching Kyle McLachlan and Everett McGill together in a completely different universe years before Twin Peaks.