Doctor Who: Classic or Dud?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UaZTZ6qBQo

Seattle, yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/bwJ7Gkm.jpg

Watched Castrovalva for the first time this weekend - it’s such a good story, is there anything else like it from the original series? Good script and set design, active use of the companions, pacy direction, smart and kitsch and batshit in just the right amounts. And Adric locked in a box for most of the story.

Logopolis and Castrovalva, by the same writer, is my favorite one-two punch in classic who. I wish they had kept going in that direction.

Have you seen The Mind Robber, from the Troughton years?

also echoing the Logopolis / Castrovalva love - particularly Logopolis - such an incredible atmosphere - Paddy Kingsland's finest hour! i was just the right age to find all the weird stuff with police boxes and the Watcher and block transfer computation extremely compelling. but yeah, great fondness for Davison era as well.

logopolis and castrovalva also come at the tail end of christopher h. bidmead's tenure as script editor. he was script editor for season 18, and that would be my next port of call. caveat is that it gets off to kind of a slow start - it's basically another internal reboot of the show, which the previous season had mostly consisted of tom baker being extremely silly, which worked quite well, but only if the script had been written by douglas adams. bidmead was more into high-concept sci-fi. baker, upon being given instructions to stop being so silly, became bitter, morose, and resentful towards everyone he worked with, which as it happened translated extremely well on screen for the later parts of the season. earlier in the season... well, i _do_ recommend the commentary track for "meglos", which features lalla ward being extremely arch while commenting with one of the scriptwriters, who is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is. what i think is _the_ underrated episode of the season is "warrior's gate", a brooding meditation (well, tom baker spends a lot of time brooding in it) on colonialist exploitation and the cycle of violence sent in a white void between dimensions. paul joyce, the director, wanted to do a brechtian take on orson welles' _touch of evil_ or something like that. in practice this means he blew the budget, pissed off everybody around him, and never directed again. it also meant that much of the actual directing was done, uncredited, by his assistant, a guy named Graeme Harper. this is the guy who went on to direct "caves of androzani". he is an extremely good director.

since "the mind robber" has been mentioned (episode 1 particularly, one of those thrown-together last-minute filler episodes - the previous story, a pro-war, anti-hippie parable by the creators of the Yeti, had been so utterly terrible that it was cut by an episode, meaning episode 1 took the classic approach of throwing together a script randomly over the weekend and filming it), some of my other favorite "surrealist doctor who" episodes include the first episode of "the space museum" and "carnival of monsters" (one of my favorite bob holmes scripts, a batshit insane critique of imperialism). of course there's also the episode of "the deadly assassin" where the doctor enters the matrix... i'm assuming you've seen that one? oh, and it took me _far_ too long to get around to watching guy leopold's "the daemons". i first got into doctor who through the early JNT eps, but of late i've found that pertwee-era who holds up _extremely_ well. the master poses as an anglican priest, but is using the church as a front - underneath the church he's conducting satanic rituals to summon a demon from hell to, i don't know, destroy the earth or something. it's fucking _great_, is what i'm saying.

one of my long-delayed projects is to watch through the stuff bob holmes wrote for series _besides_ doctor who. i've seen the episode he wrote for "spyder's web", one of the last shows of the spy series boom, featuring anthony ainley as an, ahem, _ambiguously_ gay spy. it's an utterly squalid and cynical show, so it's no surprise that holmes' script fit in wonderfully with the overall tone. then there's that miniseries about the vodyanoi he scripted... i've heard good things about that one...

The Nightmare Man - it is very good!

The Slide (a BBC radio drama) is well worth checking out, written by Victor Pemberton and starring Roger Delgado.

Even though it's basically about sentient mud, it has rather stark h*untology vibes, the Radiophonic Workshop in full effect too.

It was an extra on the animated Fury of the Deep DVD/Blu, it seems to be on iPlayer.

Seconding Nightmare Man, it’s a lot of fun.

https://archive.org/details/the-slide for non British folk

I might well be the only fan of Into The Labyrinth here but if you're feeling like watching Pamela Salem and Ron Moody camp it up in some kind of magic-based panto then you couldn't do much better (also this is, of course, probably the only contender).

Bob's second episode, loosely based on a Jekyll and Hyde concept, is maybe as ridiculous as the series got - which naturally I mean in a good way.

His Dead of Night episode is a cracker.

you are not the only fan of into the labyrinth here :)

That warms my heart

I sometimes wish even a fraction of all the Who merchandise stuff had been available when I was a kid in the impoverished Australian '80s, but then if I had been able to wear a shirt like this I would no doubt have bee even more of a pariah than I already was.
https://merchandise.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/one-day-arts.jpg

We did have Dr Who ice-creams in the supermarket that came with K-9 stencils tho

I wish someone would make a retro style WHO beucase the 70's stuff is all I like.
probably fans could make it with Aftereffects

You might like the new logo then

https://whatsondisneyplus.com/disney-to-be-the-new-global-home-for-new-seasons-of-doctor-who-outside-the-uk-ireland/

I like this one
https://logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Doctor-Who-Logo-1984-1987.jpg

including on the older books

Fuck this Disney deal, by the way.

Yes. Good and rightly fucke.

the BBC needs the money

Back in continuity I guess

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rUs5Uo2TqdA/ThXjLyLlzII/AAAAAAAAAf0/TLBTHLzJVC4/s1600/Blog-03-2-Crossroads-of-Time.jpg

I wish someone would make a retro style WHO beucase the 70's stuff is all I like.
probably fans could make it with Aftereffects

― | (Latham Green), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 20:15 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I always thought it would be cool if someone made something that tried to capture the vibe of 60s Who, particularly the early Hartnell stuff - monochrome, slightly indistinct, fuzzy images, weird electronic noises, dreamlike atmosphere

if Ncuti Gatwa gets to meet Death's Head that would be cool as well. Throw in Motormouth and Killpower

No straying from the Furman/Senior era, please!

(also, isn't the Disney thing just a non-UK distribution deal?)

I wonder what that means for BBC America?

these were the glory days

https://i0.wp.com/www.blogtorwho.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/PicsArt_02-11-08.25.15.jpg

(also, isn't the Disney thing just a non-UK distribution deal?)

Moving the show from free to air to a subscription service is kind of a big deal, particularly for those countries where the broadcaster is publicly funded.

(I guess they'll be moving the Tardis out of the Ultimo foyer soon.)

I always thought it would be cool if someone made something that tried to capture the vibe of 60s Who, particularly the early Hartnell stuff - monochrome, slightly indistinct, fuzzy images, weird electronic noises, dreamlike atmosphere

― soref, Wednesday, October 26, 2022 2:53 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah similarly, I've always wanted to see old "lost" episodes remade in 60s pastiche style with period-appropriate effects and sounds. It did kind-of happen with that surprisingly good student film remake of Mission To The Unknown a few years back.

I wonder what that means for BBC America?

Who’s figures were fairly tiny on BBCA, I shouldn’t expect losing the series to take the channel down or anything

They did make those animated re-creations of old lost episodes but they are kind of strange like paper dolls or something

cute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZuf0LIU-2A

I asked chatgpt what the worst doctor who story is and it said 'The Twin Dilemma', so I asked it to write a new improved version of the script and this is what it came up with

INT. TARDIS - DAY

The Doctor and his companion, Peri, are in the TARDIS.

THE DOCTOR
We've arrived at the planet of Jaconda. It looks like it could be a dangerous mission.

PERI
Yes, let's be careful.

EXT. PLANET JACONDA - DAY

The Doctor and Peri step out of the TARDIS.

THE DOCTOR
We need to find the source of the mysterious force.

EXT. ALIEN TEMPLE - DAY

The Doctor and Peri make their way to the temple and find two alien twins, who are being held captive by a mysterious force.

THE DOCTOR
We need to find a way to free these twins.

Peri begins to examine the alien technology in the temple, while the Doctor tries to figure out a way to free the twins.

EXT. ALIEN TEMPLE - LATER

The Doctor and Peri have managed to free the twins.

THE DOCTOR
We did it! Now, let's get these twins back to their home planet.

The Doctor and Peri take the twins

here is its attempt to improve 'death to the daleks'

INT. TARDIS - DAY

The Doctor and his companion, Sarah Jane, are in the TARDIS.

THE DOCTOR
We've arrived on Exxilon. It looks like a dangerous mission.

SARAH JANE
Yes, let's be careful.

EXT. EXXILON - DAY

The Doctor and Sarah Jane step out of the TARDIS.

THE DOCTOR
We need to find out what the Daleks are doing here.

EXT. ALIEN RUINS - DAY

The Doctor and Sarah Jane make their way to the ruins and find the Daleks, who are attempting to take control of the planet.

THE DOCTOR
We need to find a way to stop the Daleks.

Sarah Jane begins to examine the alien technology in the ruins, while the Doctor tries to figure out a way to defeat the Daleks.

EXT. ALIEN RUINS - LATER

The Doctor and Sarah Jane have managed to reprogram the Daleks to deactivate.

THE DOCTOR
We did it! Now, let's get these Daleks off Exxilon.

The Doctor and Sarah Jane

can you write a new improved version of the script for the doctor who story 'the pickwick papers'

INT. TARDIS - DAY

The Doctor and his companion, Dodo, are in the TARDIS.

THE DOCTOR
We've arrived in 1836 London. It looks like a dangerous mission.

DODO
Yes, let's be careful.

EXT. 1836 LONDON - DAY

The Doctor and Dodo step out of the TARDIS.

THE DOCTOR
We need to find out what Charles Dickens is up to.

EXT. LONDON STREETS - DAY

The Doctor and Dodo make their way to the streets and find Charles Dickens, who is attempting to write the Pickwick Papers.

THE DOCTOR
We need to find a way to help Charles Dickens with his novel.

Dodo begins to examine the people on the streets, while the Doctor tries to figure out a way to help Charles Dickens.

EXT. LONDON STREETS - LATER

The Doctor and Dodo have managed to provide Charles Dickens with the inspiration he needs to write the novel.

THE DOCTOR
We did it! Now, let's get out of here.

The Doctor and Dodo make their way back

I can't believe Tom Baker was in The Golden Voyage of Sinbad!

really considering getting BritBox again but $$

those ai scripts remind me of the stories i would write in elementary school, which would do the set up to get to the action, and then there's a sentence saying what action is happening, the end.

Stuck The Underwater Menace 3 through the Adobe AI tool (I had reasons) so here is what the artificial intelligence made of that cliffhanger.

Warning: the theme tune will haunt your soul! pic.twitter.com/TC6OpGtYWf

— David G 🎄 (@pie1883) January 18, 2023

i finally watched the last one. at one point when she’s about to regenerate for real The Doctor plaintively opines that she wants “to see what happens next”… but she will, surely? Isn’t the whole point that The Doctor stays the same? It’s just a new body? So… why wouldn’t you see what happens next? Similarly, The Master “regenerates as The Doctor” but… he’s still just him, wearing her clothes? What am I missing??

You're missing less than Chibnall tbh

I welcome all the new ai generated Tom Baker episodes

Nah, different Doctors are pretty different.

I would never willingly stand up for Chibnall, but from the start there seems to be a certain consistent idea that
1. the new Doctor retains all the memory of the old Doctors BUT
2. the new Doctor is a new personality (though more or less broadly consistent with their past selves, except when writers decide they need the Doctor to do a genocide or Pip and Jane Baker try to do comedy) AND SO
3. the previous Doctor does die, in a way--the person who carries on their life is not exactly them HENCE
4. different regenerations always squabbling when they meet up in anniversary specials, etc

Sure but she talks as if she is going to somehow not going “to see what happens next” and is sad about that, which is just not how it works. And I’m far from a Who cognoscento!

SHE isn’t, someone who inherits her memories is.

But this is all interpretation.

I have been intrigued by retention of memory between Doctors. If they are experienced as personal experience despite having happened to a different regeneration or if they're retained on a more factoid level. I think there would tend to be a difference in valorisation between the 2 but of course the Doctor is an alien with a vastly different level of intelligence

When I was a kid i used to think I regenerated in my sleep, like “when I go to sleep the today me will die, tomorrow I will be someone else but the same”. I don’t remember being a gloomy kid in general

Anyway xpost — I think this is one of the things Doctor Who is very good at, and Moffat often used to talk about: deliberately not overexplaining things so children have room to make their own guesses. Obviously Chibnall broke with that somewhat, but he seems to have gotten away with it, because his over-explanations make even less sense than the under-explanations.