the laffs keep coming
Alex Jones' ex-wife here, and I'm going to subpoena this data! Won a jury, lost my kids for blowing the whistle on infowars. Subpoena request will go out t o d a y.https://t.co/uu90cvQuOl— Kelly Jones (@RealKellyJones) August 3, 2022
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:00 (one year ago) link
Okay I expected a few laughs over this, but this is the gift that keeps on giving.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:03 (one year ago) link
Seriously, if we could harness all of the schadenfreude as an energy resource, we’d be off fossil fuels by December
― castanuts (DJP), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:06 (one year ago) link
and we have yahtzee folks
Child porn found in documents Alex Jones sent to lawyers of Sandy Hook families, court filing says https://t.co/FUgYzZ11Ln— Andrew C Laufer, Esq (@lauferlaw) August 3, 2022
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:12 (one year ago) link
maybe the luke wilson lawyer is actually a whistleblower
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:16 (one year ago) link
Really starting to get the feeling that there was nothing unintentional about his lawyer's moves here.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:19 (one year ago) link
The Simulation is finally letting us have a little fun
― Are U down with the BVM (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:19 (one year ago) link
the good news is that the world's leading expert in uncovering conspiracies and asking questions, alex jones, is ideally suited to lead the investigation into the questions about how his own lawyer handed over the contents of his entire phone to the Sandy Hook lawyers, and then didn't assert privilege afterward.
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:21 (one year ago) link
the child porn story is three years old (and a difft courtcase i assume)
― mark s, Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:22 (one year ago) link
Okay, yeah, just saw the date on that article. That Laufler tweet is misleading as fuck.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:24 (one year ago) link
ah yes
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:25 (one year ago) link
I mean, it's not wrong, but tweeting that link out now is a little disingenuous.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:28 (one year ago) link
it's definitely worded in a confusing way. otoh, I fully expect more heinous shit to turn up at any second
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:30 (one year ago) link
EIGHT FULLY GROWN ELEPHANTS!
― There are a million things you could object to, and they're all sustained. (WmC), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 20:55 (one year ago) link
I just
Unbelievable.Alex Jones' lawyer just closed his argument in the Sandy Hook defamation case with German pastor Martin Niemöller's "First they came for the socialists... Then they came for the Jews..." prose poem.Again, this was Alex Jones' lawyer.— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) August 3, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 3 August 2022 21:14 (one year ago) link
Are they done for the day, or is this picking up again soon?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 August 2022 21:21 (one year ago) link
... then they came for the insane, ranting conspiracy theorists who monetized others/ grief and pain, and I did not speak out - because I thought "good riddance."
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 21:29 (one year ago) link
i really do want to know more about the luke wilson lawyer, after this is over. hopefully someone looks into him, just as a human interest story if nothing else. i can't help but think that alex jones' case was horrible that his legal representation knew that it would be reputation-ruining to stand up for him, so they sacrificed luke wilson to do it? but i'm thinking wilson also knew that it would be a bloodbath, so he decided to demand extra compensation and turn the antics up to 11 for what he knew would be his final bow as a performance comedy lawyer? i'm just asking questions about all this and it's only my opinion
― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 21:35 (one year ago) link
these will be financial penalties rather than carceral penalties, right?
Correct, unless the perjury stuff has legs, which would be a separate criminal case.
― doomposting is the new composting (PBKR), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 22:09 (one year ago) link
This thing is like a Beckett play (or late period Adam McKay) - it begs to be dramatized, somehow, even if the cause for the hearings was altered to something less tragic/soulless.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 3 August 2022 22:29 (one year ago) link
wanna see it turn into a neil labute play
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 3 August 2022 22:40 (one year ago) link
So, today. Hahahahaha.
― death generator (lukas), Thursday, 4 August 2022 00:19 (one year ago) link
Pretty much!
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 02:26 (one year ago) link
I literally cannot imagine a minimally competent attorney having things play out quite this way by accident. But that’s complicated and weird. So Occam’s says his counsel is unimaginably awful then? I mean, pretrial you may (likely even) have agreements on unintentional production or go by rcp or maybe local rules on failure to produce, and i dunno here. Given we have an atty flipping off opposing counsel in the courtroom, i’m still just— wtf are these ppl. It’s so fucked up. In layers.I should probly go read a law blog but fuck that lol.
― Warning: Choking Hazard (Hunt3r), Thursday, 4 August 2022 02:51 (one year ago) link
On the other hand, imagine having Alex Jones as your client.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 August 2022 03:07 (one year ago) link
Legal experts will tell you it’s difficult to get the death penalty in a civil trial, but I really think Alex Jones can pull it off here— pixelatedboat aka “mr tweets” (@pixelatedboat) August 4, 2022
― frogbs, Thursday, 4 August 2022 03:09 (one year ago) link
Did closing statements finish yesterday? I had to go to work while Reynal was talking about how much $150M would weigh.
― There are a million things you could object to, and they're all sustained. (WmC), Thursday, 4 August 2022 14:01 (one year ago) link
Yup, jury now deliberating as of yesterday late afternoon
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 14:04 (one year ago) link
His lawyer basically went "Uh can we do that over?" re phone stuff and the judge said:
"I'm not going to seal the quantity of information without knowing what's in it."— Travis County Judge Maya Guerra Gamble, rejecting Alex Jones's motion as to the phone data — as well as his bid for a mistrial— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) August 4, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:06 (one year ago) link
Sounds like the J6 Committee could have the phone as soon as today -- and Bankston talked about it containing "intimate messages to Roger Stone," and I'm not going there.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:12 (one year ago) link
I have transferredthe datathat was onyour cell phone and whichyou were probablyhiding from prosecutionForgive methey were incriminatingso guiltyand so many— Johnny McNulty (@JohnnyMcNulty) August 3, 2022
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:22 (one year ago) link
omg
― castanuts (DJP), Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:23 (one year ago) link
jury's deliberating on a restitutional figure and after that a punitive figure, i believe
― mark s, Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link
xp lol at the icebox poem
This Popehat piece is good.
When modern American political culture winds up in court, the... participants are speaking different languages, and using language in different ways. Courts are focused on a taxonomy of words. Are they factual? Are they opinion? Are they literal or figurative? Courts also care about the literal truth of words. That’s central to defamation law — it’s not defamatory unless it was false. Courts are about analysis, and the entire project of the law is about words meaning specific things.But modern American political culture is emotive and even artistic. It uses language like a musician uses notes or an impressionist uses brush strokes. Whether it’s Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about Bill Gates' efforts to colonize our bowels through "peach tree dishes" or Alex Jones ranting about gay frogs, modern politicians and pundits use language to convey feelings and attitudes and values, not specific meanings. If you demand Alex Jones defend the specific meaning of his words, it’s like demanding your eight-year-old defend his statement that his birthday party was the best day ever when previously that’s what he said about Disneyland. Trump was the Salvador Dali of this movement, his speeches full of melting clocks of ire and resentment. As an artist of lies he was prolific.I’m offering a descriptive observation, not a positive normative judgment. Truth exists. Truth matters. Even if Alex Jones’ broadcasts are dreamscapes of spleen, they have real-world effects. Some people take them literally and act accordingly, as we’ve seen as the parents of murdered children tell their harrowing stories of the harassment Jones encourages. And a society where words are unaccountable, where language is just us finger-painting with our own shit, is ungovernable and unlivable.The point is that courts are ill-equipped to deal with people like Alex Jones, and people like Alex Jones are ill-equipped to deal with courts. Jones’ catastrophic testimony in his own defense illustrates this. Jones struggled to fit his bombast within the framework of the law, within the distinction between fact and opinion. It’s a bad fit because that’s not how he uses words. If Jones had been honest — an utterly foreign concept to him — he might have said “I just go out there and say what I feel.” The notion that Sandy Hook was a hoax is a word-painting, a way of conveying Jones’ bottomless rage at politics and media and modernity, and he can no more defend it factually than Magritte could defend the logical necessity of a particular brushstroke.
But modern American political culture is emotive and even artistic. It uses language like a musician uses notes or an impressionist uses brush strokes. Whether it’s Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about Bill Gates' efforts to colonize our bowels through "peach tree dishes" or Alex Jones ranting about gay frogs, modern politicians and pundits use language to convey feelings and attitudes and values, not specific meanings. If you demand Alex Jones defend the specific meaning of his words, it’s like demanding your eight-year-old defend his statement that his birthday party was the best day ever when previously that’s what he said about Disneyland. Trump was the Salvador Dali of this movement, his speeches full of melting clocks of ire and resentment. As an artist of lies he was prolific.
I’m offering a descriptive observation, not a positive normative judgment. Truth exists. Truth matters. Even if Alex Jones’ broadcasts are dreamscapes of spleen, they have real-world effects. Some people take them literally and act accordingly, as we’ve seen as the parents of murdered children tell their harrowing stories of the harassment Jones encourages. And a society where words are unaccountable, where language is just us finger-painting with our own shit, is ungovernable and unlivable.
The point is that courts are ill-equipped to deal with people like Alex Jones, and people like Alex Jones are ill-equipped to deal with courts. Jones’ catastrophic testimony in his own defense illustrates this. Jones struggled to fit his bombast within the framework of the law, within the distinction between fact and opinion. It’s a bad fit because that’s not how he uses words. If Jones had been honest — an utterly foreign concept to him — he might have said “I just go out there and say what I feel.” The notion that Sandy Hook was a hoax is a word-painting, a way of conveying Jones’ bottomless rage at politics and media and modernity, and he can no more defend it factually than Magritte could defend the logical necessity of a particular brushstroke.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:37 (one year ago) link
― mark s,
I've seen the punitive stuff to come referred to as a separate trial. Will they use the same jury or a new one?
― There are a million things you could object to, and they're all sustained. (WmC), Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:49 (one year ago) link
xpost Yeah, that's good. It's even more complicated when someone's previous invoked abstract word art is cited in a strict legal setting. You hear Alex Jones say frogs make people gay, and the reasonable response is "what did he just say?" You cite it in court, and the challenge becomes delineating exactly what he *did* say. Is that legal proof that he is a liar, or a lunatic?
Reminds me of when my kids were younger and they would (for example) ask where I'd been, and I'd say, or, I was just having dinner on the moon. They would call that a lie, and I would say it's not a lie, because it could never be true.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 August 2022 15:56 (one year ago) link
xp -- same jury, a Dan Solomon tweet from a few minutes ago clears it up
― There are a million things you could object to, and they're all sustained. (WmC), Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:09 (one year ago) link
Indeed
worth being clear that whatever number they do eventually come back with does NOT represent the total damages—they are deliberating on compensatory damages only. once they're done, there are two more witnesses, then the jury goes back to determine punitive damages— dan solomon (@dansolomon) August 4, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:15 (one year ago) link
the verdicts are split so the jury is not thinking about how much money Alex and Infowars have when they are deliberating on compensatory damages—this part is about the plaintiffs and what fairly compensates them, not about Alex and what he can afford to pay— dan solomon (@dansolomon) August 4, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:16 (one year ago) link
yeah it reminds me of my brother, who watches Rogan & Alex Jones (he admits Jones is a clown, but that "he turns out to be right a lot", with no further elaboration on what, exactly, he was ever right about)
it's one thing to try to convince others of this bullshit, who can use actual facts to refute them, where everyone gets frustrated and insists the other guy is wrong. what I don't get is how these people convince themselves. they're always wrong about everything. half the shit they say is utterly insane and all the "just you wait" shit never comes to fruition. and yet they never seem to do any self-reflection, cuz you can always convince yourself you were right all along somehow.
― frogbs, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:17 (one year ago) link
solomon also notes* there are three more defamation cases to come! and that's before the aggravated perjury charge (not yet paid) even lands!
*noted yesterday actually i think
― mark s, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:22 (one year ago) link
Alex Jones' lawyers were just now arguing for a mistrial because they accidentally sent the Sandy Hook family lawyers the entire contents of Jones' phone.Judge denies the motion.— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) August 4, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:28 (one year ago) link
xpost Yes apparently three other ones to come, one more in Texas and then others in Florida and Connecticut. Jones blew them all off and now he gets to deal with the results.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:29 (one year ago) link
Sorry just saw a tweet above reporting it
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:29 (one year ago) link
I can think of like 20 separate @dril tweets that would apply to this trial right now
― frogbs, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:32 (one year ago) link
Chances are good that "he turns out to be right a lot" just means "he accurately reflects how I perceive the world around me", which also means "I am hopelessly incapable of self-reflection".
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:32 (one year ago) link
perjury charge (not yet paid) s/b perjury charge (not yet laid), confusion fans
― mark s, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:35 (one year ago) link
number three. i will never take the advice of my lawyers, my loved-ones, and colleagues to #StopThePosts— wint (@dril) September 11, 2013
― mark s, Thursday, 4 August 2022 16:37 (one year ago) link
Meanwhile over in Jones' head
Jones said he started making phone calls to his wealthy acquaintances today asking for money. Says the "orders have come down from on high" to shut him down so he can't report on fraud in the upcoming midterms. He's called this new fundraiser "Operation David." Ok man.— Anna Merlan (@annamerlan) August 4, 2022
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 4 August 2022 17:00 (one year ago) link